SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Jim Rutz and we’re talking about a mega trend, it is something that is bigger than all of us and it has got to do with the new, which was really
the old system called the house congregation. Now Jim, we were talking about the leader, and tell me who is the leader in a home church?

JIM: There are several leaders, we have distributed leadership, because if you put everything into one person then pretty soon the authority, the thought, everything is flowing down from the top. In the New Testament leaders are supposed to be at the
bottom of that pyramid, supporting everybody else. If you go around the traditional churches and ask people, “Are you there in that church to support the vision and
ministry of the pastor, or is the pastor there to support you in your own personal ministry?” Everyone would say the same thing.

SID: But how could a large church, how in the world can the pastor support the individual vision, he may have the heart to do it, but unless they are supporting
his vision it’s just not going to happen.

JIM: Bingo. That’s it!

SID: So what would you say the real difference is between the house church and the traditional church?

JIM: It’s your identity, it’s your relationship, Sid if you and I were in a house church we would belong to each other, it’s really kind of a 24-7 thing rather than a Sunday go to meeting thing, not that there is anything wrong at all with meeting on Sundays but if you’ve got a problem, I’ve got a problem, and I don’t rest until your problem is solved, and if somebody is after SID Roth or trying to put you down or attack you in some way, they are going to have to get past me first, because I am there to cover you and you are there to cover me, we belong to each other. You know you can’t buy that kind of loyalty these days. And so that is why house churches are growing, people are really hungry for that kind of belonging and responsibility and accountability, if I see you slipping off the track and starting to do some things that are wrong, I am going to take you aside and say, “Sid, this is not good in your life.”

SID: What goes on in a house church?

JIM: Almost everything, the fun thing is you can never know what is happening, when you open it up and the Holy Spirit is in charge, Yeshua is there, Jesus is there, and you might kind of have a habit of say starting off with some singing, but beyond that there is hardly any time, people don’t plan these things

SID: How long have you been going to house churches?

JIM: Various things that look like house churches for several decades, it’s evolving.

SID: How long have you been researching this whole subject?
JIM: Oh, fifteen years or something like that.

SID: It’s, you know this book MegaShift, that tells exactly how they can establish this kind of a house church, but how can you be different every week, I mean everyone falls into patterns.

JIM: Well, I’m a creative guy, but if I had to create fifty-two different programs for fifty-two different meetings, I couldn’t do it, but the Holy Spirit somehow manages to take all the threads of what people have been thinking about and doing all week and drawing it together like a conductor waving a baton, things weave together and you say a scripture verse and that reminds me of something in my life which inspires somebody else to pray something and somebody else thinks of a song out of that and it just flows

SID: But who gives the message?

JIM: The message, the message

SID: Yes.

JIM: Okay, there’s the problem Sid, a sermon arose, over a couple of hundred years or so it became a…I stand up and I talk and you set there and you listen.

SID: Just a couple of hundred years ago?

JIM: Well no, through the first two hundred years of the church service developed, we don’t have that, we have a lot of people bringing a lot of messages, and so even if you are a new Christian you are going to learn to open up your Bible and say, “You know I was reading in this book called Galatians, Galatians, and God spoke to me and said this verse here last week, you know.” and so even new Christians are able to start ministering.
We had a meeting just south of Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Colorado, years ago, a friend of my had fallen and broken her ankle into a million pieces, it was terrible, and so they
gathered around, “Let’s pray for Jeanie,” and so they all came around and put hands on Jeanie and here is this two year old boy named Moses, from across the room walks over, puts his little two-year-old hands around her ankle and everybody in the room hears all these bones snapping back into place, two-years-old. So everybody gets involved, it is not longer a case of who brings “the message” or who is the leader?

SID: So no one could be hidden, no one could be behind the back of someone is what you’re saying.

JIM: It’s pretty hard with ten or twelve or fifteen.

SID: Now the ennis, the truth, you’ve been going to these meeting for many, many, years, is there a sense of excitement before you go to a meeting really and truly? It’s not the same old, same old, it’s not routine as usual.

JIM: Not even close to same old, same old, if you have a bunch of people who know how to listen to the Holy Spirit then it is going to be different every time. The Holy Spirit doesn’t deal in cookie cutter programs. Programs, we say are for people who don’t know how to listen to God.

SID: Say that statement again.

JIM: Programs are for people who don’t know how to listen to the Holy Spirit.

SID: Jim, as you know God has had me teaching on the one new man, and the one new man if I had to come up with a word to describe it, there are many things, but the one word, if they forced me to come up with the one word of what it is, it’s freedom, and I did an experiment recently, went into my own home town, I rented a hotel room, I just put the chairs in a circular, with concentric circles, one time I did a rectangle, one time with
Concentric rectangles, we had anywhere from a hundred and fifty to two hundred people at both of these meetings and I said the hardest things that I am going to do is to keep quiet, I don’t know if you can relate.

JIM: That’s hard.

SID: But it was very, very difficult for me, now the hardest thing that you are going to do
is to talk, because you are so used to being a spectator.

JIM: Yes, yes.

SID: Well, it started out a little rough, but then one person had courage to stand up and so you know that it was so wonderful, I mean a man gets up, someone I don’t even know, should I give him permission, should I not give him permission, and he says he was in a mental institution and God gave him some songs and Jesus came in and He became real to him and He took over his life and he sits down. So I said, he didn’t have a guitar, I said, someone hand him a guitar, talk about risk taking, so he takes this guitar, and I have to tell you Jim, the Spirit of God just flowed into that auditorium, wasn’t even an auditorium, that hotel room, like a river. The leaders didn’t sit together, the worship team wasn’t there because the worship team were the people with the guitars and violins and banners and tambourines and shofars, and at one point the Spirit of God moved into that
meeting in such a tangible fashion that has never happened in my life, my hands literally started burning and Jim I knew that I could lay hands on people and they would be healed, but I knew God didn’t want me to, it was like a sign to tell me that God was ready
to heal Himself, no one laid hands on anyone, I said to someone who I didn’t even know, “Stand up and pray a blanket prayer over everyone.” And they prayed that prayer and guess what, there were half a dozen miracles, I mean genuine miracles, I mean someone who had parachuted from a plane and landed badly with broken everything got instantly healed. And then the next meeting we had we expected the same thing, no, God had an entirely different plan and this wasn’t a house meeting, this was a larger meeting, I mean it is so exciting because you don’t know what God is going to do.

JIM: Yes it’s an open meeting; He is the God of surprises.

SID: What will happen if someone reads Mega Shift?

JIM: Well hopefully his life will get changed and he will realize who he really is, he will have a new identity, or she will be able to do things that they have never done before.
It doesn’t mean that tomorrow morning you step out the door and heal everybody in sight but it gives you a great starting point and you learn to grow, and you are not doing it alone anymore, because you will have people around you that are praying for you, supporting you, and helping you.

SID: Listen, this is another significant, mentoring tool for the next, for the greatest, and I believe for the last move of God’s Spirit before the Messiah returns. You have been wondering what am I going to do, I would like to have a house congregation, I don’t know how to do it, this book will show you how to do it, and then just do the stuff, it’s that simple, but listen, you could go to another country with this principle and probably start a thousand congregations, women over eighty years of age are doing this in other countries, read it in this book. Jim Rutz, thank you for writing this, thank you for your years of research in this, but I really believe that this is a “how to” manual.

JIM: It is.

SID: So just take it in their hands and get a baby. It’s that simple, and get right with God.

SID: So in other words what He said is when the leaders, the Sanhedrin, say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord,” Jesus will be here. That’s quite a nuance; difference.

PAUL: Well, they disappeared. Here’s the exciting thing. And it’s happened right under the noses of most Bible believers, and they don’t even know it’s happened. At the end of 2004, 71 elders calling themselves the revived Sanhedrin approached the Knesset and said “We are now here. We’re back. We’re the rulers.” They disappeared for over 1,700 years. 1,700 years – No longer as a ruling body; and reappeared at the end of 2004.

SID: I don’t have to be a mental giant – you don’t have to be a mental giant to figure that out. They’re here now. They’re ready to say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” And Jesus will be here. Miracles: next segment. Trust me – don’t go away. Be right back after this. 

SID: Sid Roth here with Paul Wilbur, messianic Jewish psalmist. And it’s one thing when Paul goes to a nation like Zambia and sees miracles – which he did. Tumors drop off. But what happens when he’s just worshipping God in a church in Miami. What happens Paul?

PAUL: Well, there was a very spectacular presence of the living God. In Psalm 22:3, God promises, through King David, “I inhabit the praises of My people.” So if we will just put ourselves in an attitude of praise, He comes where we are. Now when we were in Miami, we were doing just that: A couple thousand Gypsies. These are Romanian immigrants that have come to the United States, they’ve got their own culture and language. And in about the second song, Sid, the Lord spoke to my heart and said “I don’t want to hear any more about My power. I want to demonstrate it now.” And that really kind of shook me, because I didn’t know what was going to happen. And then I understood that I should speak about healing, so I stopped the music. I told the people “The Lord is here to heal you.” and we had about four blind eyes and four or five deaf ears, in Miami, Florida, came open in a Sunday morning church service. The place just exploded.

SID: Listen. Paul Wilbur and his wife are quite a team. I just wish his wife, Luanne, would work on cue. She doesn’t. She can only speak when God speaks to her. But I was having dinner with Paul and all of a sudden, I see her go like this to his shoulder, and she starts speaking in an unknown language and he starts translating. Paul, you told me that you were talking to someone on the phone who had cancer, and what happened?

PAUL: They were healed. My wife and I were out to lunch. This is a good Presbyterian girl, you know, but God’s just gotten a hold of her. We were out to lunch, sitting by the beach, enjoying a nice afternoon, a friend of mine called. He said “We’re going to Milwaukee to have testing for cancer. I’ve been told I have this cancer and that cancer.” My wife pulled on my sleeve…

SID: I know that sign now.

PAUL: …And she had a message for him. I got the interpretation, declared to him that he’s healed, that the Lord is going to prove it to him. He called me two weeks later and said “I’m completely free. No cancer.” It’s just wonderful.

SID: Listen, that’s just wonderful for him, but what about you? Some of you are saying “What about me?” I believe, as Paul Wilbur sings from his new album, “Holy, Holy, Holy,” as you reach your heart up to God, miracles will break out. Get ready. Paul, go over there.

§ music §

Holy, holy, holy is the God of Israel Elders bow in worship as the angel voices swell Rain clouds of incense swirl around Your throne of grace Lord, we bow in worship at the brilliance of Your face We cry holy Holy Holy Is the Lord Holy Angels cry holy The Lord, He is holy Holy is the Lord You are the Lord’s There’s none like You, Lord Who is like You, oh Lord, among the gods? Holy, holy, holy is the song that heaven sings All creation praise Him, Hallelujah Elohim Come to reign forever, King Of Kings and Lord Of Lords Hill of Zion, open wide you ancient doors And cry holy Holy Holy is the Lord Holy Holy Holy is the Lord Of Lords Holy is the Lord, righteous and mighty Holy is the Lord Holy, holy The God who’s healing us You ever listen when we call You here Holy is the Lord

§ music § 

SID: The great Jewish prophet, Isaiah, caught a glimpse of God, and he said “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty. He’s high and lifted up, and His train fills the temple.” But then he says “Woe is me! I’m undone! I’ve seen the Lord.” And he recognized his sin. He recognized that all of his righteousness counted for nothing. Compared to another man it counted a great deal, but compared to God that he caught a glimpse of… God you’re so good. You’re so good. If you will turn from your sins, our good God will cover them with His blood. And He says, even more than cover, He will remove those sins in the name of Jesus. In the act of… Paul, God is telling you something.

PAUL: Yes. There’s someone listening to you right now, Sid, and they’re saying “I wish I knew that this was real.” And the Lord is going to confirm this to you, because you have tumors in your stomach; a lot of acid and a lot of discomfort. And the Lord is healing those right now as a sign to you that you are loved of God and can be saved. There’s someone else Sid that’s listening right now that has an issue of blood. There’s a loss of energy and a loss of vitality, and the doctors don’t know what to do; but there’s a leaking of blood somewhere internally in you that the doctors haven’t found, and the Lord is healing that for you right now because He loves you.

SID: Other miracles are happening right now too. Spines – they’re literally being repaired. Bend over, you’ll see there’s no pain in the neck, no pain in your neck, your back. And hip – if you’ll stand up and just jump, you’ll see that that pain is totally gone. This is your moment. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to say “Oh, I’ll just look at something else on TV”? Or are you going to have an encounter with the Living God? Choose this day whom you shall serve, but as for me and my house, we’re going to serve the Living God. I want you to be part of the mishpochah; that’s a Hebrew word, it means ‘family’. I want you part of God’s family. Why would you want to walk around like a blind man, when you can see? In Jesus’ name, repent to your sins, and believe that He is your Lord. Ask Him to forgive your sins and live inside of you. 

SID: So in other words what He said is when the leaders, the Sanhedrin, say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord,” Jesus will be here. That’s quite a nuance; difference.

 

PAUL: Well, they disappeared. Here’s the exciting thing. And it’s happened right under the noses of most Bible believers, and they don’t even know it’s happened. At the end of 2004, 71 elders calling themselves the revived Sanhedrin approached the Knesset and said “We are now here. We’re back. We’re the rulers.” They disappeared for over 1,700 years. 1,700 years – No longer as a ruling body; and reappeared at the end of 2004.

 

SID: I don’t have to be a mental giant – you don’t have to be a mental giant to figure that out. They’re here now. They’re ready to say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” And Jesus will be here. Miracles: next segment. Trust me – don’t go away. Be right back after this. 

 

SID: Sid Roth here with Paul Wilbur, messianic Jewish psalmist. And it’s one thing when Paul goes to a nation like Zambia and sees miracles – which he did. Tumors drop off. But what happens when he’s just worshipping God in a church in Miami. What happens Paul?

 

PAUL: Well, there was a very spectacular presence of the living God. In Psalm 22:3, God promises, through King David, “I inhabit the praises of My people.” So if we will just put ourselves in an attitude of praise, He comes where we are. Now when we were in Miami, we were doing just that: A couple thousand Gypsies. These are Romanian immigrants that have come to the United States, they’ve got their own culture and language. And in about the second song, Sid, the Lord spoke to my heart and said “I don’t want to hear any more about My power. I want to demonstrate it now.” And that really kind of shook me, because I didn’t know what was going to happen. And then I understood that I should speak about healing, so I stopped the music. I told the people “The Lord is here to heal you.” and we had about four blind eyes and four or five deaf ears, in Miami, Florida, came open in a Sunday morning church service. The place just exploded.

 

SID: Listen. Paul Wilbur and his wife are quite a team. I just wish his wife, Luanne, would work on cue. She doesn’t. She can only speak when God speaks to her. But I was having dinner with Paul and all of a sudden, I see her go like this to his shoulder, and she starts speaking in an unknown language and he starts translating. Paul, you told me that you were talking to someone on the phone who had cancer, and what happened?

 

PAUL: They were healed. My wife and I were out to lunch. This is a good Presbyterian girl, you know, but God’s just gotten a hold of her. We were out to lunch, sitting by the beach, enjoying a nice afternoon, a friend of mine called. He said “We’re going to Milwaukee to have testing for cancer. I’ve been told I have this cancer and that cancer.” My wife pulled on my sleeve…

 

SID: I know that sign now.

 

PAUL: …And she had a message for him. I got the interpretation, declared to him that he’s healed, that the Lord is going to prove it to him. He called me two weeks later and said “I’m completely free. No cancer.” It’s just wonderful.

 

SID: Listen, that’s just wonderful for him, but what about you? Some of you are saying “What about me?” I believe, as Paul Wilbur sings from his new album, “Holy, Holy, Holy,” as you reach your heart up to God, miracles will break out. Get ready. Paul, go over there.

 

§ music §

 

Holy, holy, holy is the God of Israel Elders bow in worship as the angel voices swell Rain clouds of incense swirl around Your throne of grace Lord, we bow in worship at the brilliance of Your face We cry holy Holy Holy Is the Lord Holy Angels cry holy The Lord, He is holy Holy is the Lord You are the Lord’s There’s none like You, Lord Who is like You, oh Lord, among the gods? Holy, holy, holy is the song that heaven sings All creation praise Him, Hallelujah Elohim Come to reign forever, King Of Kings and Lord Of Lords Hill of Zion, open wide you ancient doors And cry holy Holy Holy is the Lord Holy Holy Holy is the Lord Of Lords Holy is the Lord, righteous and mighty Holy is the Lord Holy, holy The God who’s healing us You ever listen when we call You here Holy is the Lord

 

 

SID: The great Jewish prophet, Isaiah, caught a glimpse of God, and he said “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty. He’s high and lifted up, and His train fills the temple.” But then he says “Woe is me! I’m undone! I’ve seen the Lord.” And he recognized his sin. He recognized that all of his righteousness counted for nothing. Compared to another man it counted a great deal, but compared to God that he caught a glimpse of… God you’re so good. You’re so good. If you will turn from your sins, our good God will cover them with His blood. And He says, even more than cover, He will remove those sins in the name of Jesus. In the act of… Paul, God is telling you something.

 

PAUL: Yes. There’s someone listening to you right now, Sid, and they’re saying “I wish I knew that this was real.” And the Lord is going to confirm this to you, because you have tumors in your stomach; a lot of acid and a lot of discomfort. And the Lord is healing those right now as a sign to you that you are loved of God and can be saved. There’s someone else Sid that’s listening right now that has an issue of blood. There’s a loss of energy and a loss of vitality, and the doctors don’t know what to do; but there’s a leaking of blood somewhere internally in you that the doctors haven’t found, and the Lord is healing that for you right now because He loves you.

 

SID: Other miracles are happening right now too. Spines – they’re literally being repaired. Bend over, you’ll see there’s no pain in the neck, no pain in your neck, your back. And hip – if you’ll stand up and just jump, you’ll see that that pain is totally gone. This is your moment. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to say “Oh, I’ll just look at something else on TV”? Or are you going to have an encounter with the Living God? Choose this day whom you shall serve, but as for me and my house, we’re going to serve the Living God. I want you to be part of the mishpochah; that’s a Hebrew word, it means ‘family’. I want you part of God’s family. Why would you want to walk around like a blind man, when you can see? In Jesus’ name, repent to your sins, and believe that He is your Lord. Ask Him to forgive your sins and live inside of you.

SID: Sid Roth here with Paul Wilbur. Paul is not a worship leader, he is a new covenant prophetic psalmist. And you said, Paul, that God had shown you that this is a year of breakthrough. What does that mean to you?

PAUL: Its bars of iron that are cut; its double doors of bronze that have been closed to us before; new opportunities to share the goodness of God. Later on this year, I’ll take a large team with me to Zambia in Africa, at the invitation of the President.

PAUL: Now you were recently in Zambia, and they had…

SID: You’re talking about breakthroughs. They had breakthroughs.

PAUL: They did. In fact, while we were there, the Vice-President of the nation receive Yeshua – received Jesus as his Lord and Savior. So for that nation, you know, as the head goes, so goes the rest of the body. I’m very excited for Zambia, because they are lining themselves up now for the blessings of God.

SID: Tell me about the country. How bad off are they?

PAUL: It’s exceptionally bad. They are the second or third poorest nation in the world, perhaps behind Ethiopia and Sudan. The average Zambian does not make it to their 40th birthday. They have the second highest incidence of AIDS. One-tenth; over one-tenth,

SID. If you think about this, over one-tenth of their population are orphans that live on the streets. We fed some of these children. The most fortunate of them get one bowl of porridge from a caring church, a congregation there in the nation, one time a day, and most of the time just five days a week. But most of those children go to bed hungry; begging on streets, living in garbage traps. The poverty is staggering. And I found out, one of the reasons for the great turnaround, when this nation became a nation back in 1972, the first thing their first president did was sever diplomatic relations with Israel – His first act as president.

SID: My goodness. Now we know Genesis 12:3, God says “I’ll bless those who bless the Jewish people, I’ll curse those who curse them.” I mean this is a graphic illustration of that.

PAUL: Absolutely. Now they have, for the last two presidents, including this one, they’re born-again Christians. They have reestablished diplomatic relationships with Israel and declared that Zambia is a Christian nation. They’ve dedicated the nation to the Lord. Imagine if our President did that: Stood up at a State of the Union address and said “I’m dedicating the United States to the Lord.”

SID: You told me what happened to a Muslim mosque in Zambia. What happened?

PAUL: Phenomenal. Now isn’t it wonderful, that when we do just what God shows us to do, He adds the power to it. If we lay hands on the sick like He says, people get healed. Well, the Bible says to take care of orphans and widows in their distress, and Zambia has more than their share.

SID: Of course.

PAUL: So this young messianic believer went out to feed street children one day, and he set up his shop right next to a Muslim mosque. And from the safety of the mosque, the imam – the pastor or the rabbi if you will – was watching, and he was very curious as to why these people fed everybody. They fed Muslims, they fed Christians, they fed children, they fed anybody who was hungry. And finally the imam couldn’t take it any longer. He walked out… Now I heard this first-hand from the man. This is almost too hard to believe, but it’s so good. He walked out to talk with this young messianic believer, and he said “I’ve just got to know, why do you feed everybody? We Muslims, we only feed our people.” And so this young man shared the love of God and some scripture with him. The imam repented right there, received Jesus as Lord of his life. Then, the next day, called a meeting for his entire mosque. Five hundred showed up. He’s one day old in the Lord. He gave his testimony, and over two hundred of those people received the Lord, went down to the crocodile-infested river – this separates the men from the boys. If you’re going to get a mikvah and there’s crocodiles watching, this means you’re serious. And over two hundred of them were baptized or mikvahed that day. And they went up and took the crescent off the top of the mosque and put a star of David on the side.

SID: Could you picture, if ever mosque in, say, London, England, that happened to? Do you know there are more mosques in London, England today than churches? Could you picture if that happened in the United States and in Europe? Paul, there’s something going on with Israel. There’s something new going on. I think it’s got to do with that word breakthrough that you used. What is going on that you see in this area?

PAUL: Well, there’s a new desire, there’s a fresh hunger, I believe, for the presence of God, and for knowing who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Remember, Esther said that she was brought to the kingdom… Or Mordecai said to her “You’ve been brought to the kingdom for such a time as this.” I believe that a lot of Israelis are wondering “What time is it?” They hear a lot in Christian broadcasting, and from the many tourists that come through. But something happened at the end of 2004, Sid, which also puts it… In Matthew 23, Yeshua said to Jerusalem “You’ll not see Me again until you say ‘Blessed is he who comes.'” Now was He speaking to all Israel? Certainly He was. Was He speaking just to Jerusalem? Well, no. If you read it carefully, He says “I wanted to gather your chicks together, but you were not willing, and you will not see Me again until you say…” See, I believe He was speaking directly to the leaders, the 71 elders, the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees. 

SID: Sid Roth here with Paul Wilbur. Paul is not a worship leader, he is a new covenant prophetic psalmist. And you said, Paul, that God had shown you that this is a year of breakthrough. What does that mean to you?

 

PAUL: Its bars of iron that are cut; its double doors of bronze that have been closed to us before; new opportunities to share the goodness of God. Later on this year, I’ll take a large team with me to Zambia in Africa, at the invitation of the President.

 

PAUL: Now you were recently in Zambia, and they had…

 

SID: You’re talking about breakthroughs. They had breakthroughs.

 

PAUL: They did. In fact, while we were there, the Vice-President of the nation receive Yeshua – received Jesus as his Lord and Savior. So for that nation, you know, as the head goes, so goes the rest of the body. I’m very excited for Zambia, because they are lining themselves up now for the blessings of God.

 

SID: Tell me about the country. How bad off are they?

 

PAUL: It’s exceptionally bad. They are the second or third poorest nation in the world, perhaps behind Ethiopia and Sudan. The average Zambian does not make it to their 40th birthday. They have the second highest incidence of AIDS. One-tenth; over one-tenth,

 

SID. If you think about this, over one-tenth of their population are orphans that live on the streets. We fed some of these children. The most fortunate of them get one bowl of porridge from a caring church, a congregation there in the nation, one time a day, and most of the time just five days a week. But most of those children go to bed hungry; begging on streets, living in garbage traps. The poverty is staggering. And I found out, one of the reasons for the great turnaround, when this nation became a nation back in 1972, the first thing their first president did was sever diplomatic relations with Israel – His first act as president.

 

SID: My goodness. Now we know Genesis 12:3, God says “I’ll bless those who bless the Jewish people, I’ll curse those who curse them.” I mean this is a graphic illustration of that.

 

PAUL: Absolutely. Now they have, for the last two presidents, including this one, they’re born-again Christians. They have reestablished diplomatic relationships with Israel and declared that Zambia is a Christian nation. They’ve dedicated the nation to the Lord. Imagine if our President did that: Stood up at a State of the Union address and said “I’m dedicating the United States to the Lord.”

 

SID: You told me what happened to a Muslim mosque in Zambia. What happened?

 

PAUL: Phenomenal. Now isn’t it wonderful, that when we do just what God shows us to do, He adds the power to it. If we lay hands on the sick like He says, people get healed. Well, the Bible says to take care of orphans and widows in their distress, and Zambia has more than their share.

 

SID: Of course.

 

PAUL: So this young messianic believer went out to feed street children one day, and he set up his shop right next to a Muslim mosque. And from the safety of the mosque, the imam – the pastor or the rabbi if you will – was watching, and he was very curious as to why these people fed everybody. They fed Muslims, they fed Christians, they fed children, they fed anybody who was hungry. And finally the imam couldn’t take it any longer. He walked out… Now I heard this first-hand from the man. This is almost too hard to believe, but it’s so good. He walked out to talk with this young messianic believer, and he said “I’ve just got to know, why do you feed everybody? We Muslims, we only feed our people.” And so this young man shared the love of God and some scripture with him. The imam repented right there, received Jesus as Lord of his life. Then, the next day, called a meeting for his entire mosque. Five hundred showed up. He’s one day old in the Lord. He gave his testimony, and over two hundred of those people received the Lord, went down to the crocodile-infested river – this separates the men from the boys. If you’re going to get a mikvah and there’s crocodiles watching, this means you’re serious. And over two hundred of them were baptized or mikvahed that day. And they went up and took the crescent off the top of the mosque and put a star of David on the side.

 

SID: Could you picture, if ever mosque in, say, London, England, that happened to? Do you know there are more mosques in London, England today than churches? Could you picture if that happened in the United States and in Europe? Paul, there’s something going on with Israel. There’s something new going on. I think it’s got to do with that word breakthrough that you used. What is going on that you see in this area?

 

PAUL: Well, there’s a new desire, there’s a fresh hunger, I believe, for the presence of God, and for knowing who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Remember, Esther said that she was brought to the kingdom… Or Mordecai said to her “You’ve been brought to the kingdom for such a time as this.” I believe that a lot of Israelis are wondering “What time is it?” They hear a lot in Christian broadcasting, and from the many tourists that come through. But something happened at the end of 2004, Sid, which also puts it… In Matthew 23, Yeshua said to Jerusalem “You’ll not see Me again until you say ‘Blessed is he who comes.'” Now was He speaking to all Israel? Certainly He was. Was He speaking just to Jerusalem? Well, no. If you read it carefully, He says “I wanted to gather your chicks together, but you were not willing, and you will not see Me again until you say…” See, I believe He was speaking directly to the leaders, the 71 elders, the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees.

SID: Sid Roth here with messianic Jewish psalmist Paul Wilbur. The job, if you will, of a psalmist is so misunderstood, and the only way you can understand what a psalmist is, is to look at the Jewish scriptures. What is a psalmist, Paul?

PAUL: I believe the best definition of a psalmist, Sid, would be for a cantor today; someone who hears the voice of God and gives it voice into the earth. Now that could be a restating of something written by King David, or one of the prophets, that has an application for today. But those of us who lead worship, and I’m not a song leader, I lead worship, or lead worshippers, I believe our highest calling is as watchmen – to hear what others cannot hear, see what others cannot see, and then give it voice into the earth. So a psalmist really is a prophetic ministry.

SID: Speaking of a prophetic ministry, you’re a prophet. What do you see happening this year?

PAUL: A lot of people are declaring a lot of things. Brother Hagin declared, before he graduated from this earth, that the last quarter of last year and this entire year was to be a year of unprecedented glory. That is the manifest presence of God. I really reverberate with that in my spirit. I’ve been with other notable men and women of God that are declaring that this is a year for unprecedented supernatural things in the earth. This year as I was praying – the end of last year and the beginning of this year – the word the Lord gave me was “breakthrough.” I believe this is a year for breakthrough. Isaiah 45, one of the prophets of Israel, Isaiah, said that the anointed of the Lord, God would take him by the hand. You cannot miss it, when God takes you by the hand like a father to lead you across a street or take you where you need to go. And then he said “I will cut down bars of iron before you. I will open double doors – double doors.” The blessing this year, I believe, Sid, is going to be so large that it won’t be able to pass through a single door. It’s going to have to be double doors. And then he said “I will also give you secrets; treasures hidden in secret places.”

SID: You know, when you say treasures hidden in secret places, many people in their mind think in terms of money. But you know what I’m thinking of? In terms of ancient Jewish anointings that are going to be released. Now you have a new CD that we’re making available called “The Watchman.” I’ve known you many years, and this has, without a doubt, the strongest presence of God on it, out of anything that you’ve ever done. Tell me about this first song that we’re going to have you sing.

PAUL: This first song I co-wrote with some friends, and it’s a reaction song. We call it “Adonai.” And the reason I say it’s a reaction song, I just got so disturbed, or moved, in my heart because today we keep hearing about Islam being a peaceful religion. We hear about this one god. You know, there are three great world religions. There is the kingdom of God and then there’s everything else as far as I’m concerned. And I was so disturbed about hearing “Allah is god, he has no son.” We wanted to create a song that declares “The Lord, He is God.” Like the prophet said on the top of Mount Carmel, “Choose this day whom you’re going to serve, but the Lord…” Is it the Lord or is it these other gods? And when Israel decided to follow God, then all of the goodness broke out. So this song is a declaration song: The Lord, there is no one but Him. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. His son… Interesting Sid, that that beautiful gold dome that we see in Jerusalem; everybody equates it with Jerusalem; is a Muslim mosque. And around the top of it in Arabic, it declares “Allah is god and he has no equal. He has no son.”

SID: You know, his song, Adonai, when Paul sings it, he sings ancient Hebrew words: Baruch HaShem Adonai: Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. He is declaring that when the Jewish people say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, open your eyes: Messiah is going to be here.

SID: Sid Roth here with Joan Hunter, what happens after 25 years of marriage to a minister, four beautiful daughters, and the minister says I’m in love with another man, and he’s homosexual and the marriage is done. The Hunters are devastated, well Joan Hunter was in that situation and when we took the break I said what about those four girls, and she said I gave them to God. Well Joan, what did you do when perhaps one of your daughters showed all sorts of challenges, you gave them to God, but what did you do, give me an exact instance. 

JOAN: Well they would call and tell me a situation that had happened, and in the natural I wouldn’t have approved of, and they knew better. And instead of going “Now you know better than that,” because that is the worst thing you can do, they need to know your unconditional love, and you love them with the love of the Lord. And in the conversation or whatever, I’d get off the phone and I’d say God, do you see what your daughter is doing, do you hear what your daughter just did? That’s when you know that you have given them to God. And all four of their lives have dramatically turned around. And it’s wonderful.  

SID: Joan, and I promised you by the way, Joan walks in such power, she worked for, how many years with your parents? 

JOAN: Off and on, I still actually do a few meetings for them a year, help them.  

SID: Okay, a lifetime. 

JOAN: Over thirty years. 

SID: Working with a ministry that has seen more miracles than any ministry I know of, boy does she have faith. We had so many miracles happen last time Joan was here, you have got to tell me the story about the 88 year old woman with fibromyalgia, how long did she suffer? She, I asked, does anybody have fibromyalgia, she said yes, and I said how long have you had it and she says her whole life. And I said, I’m thinking in the natural there is no way she could have had it her whole life, she says I don’t remember not having it. And I said well usually fibromyalgia is brought on by a traumatic experience, she said well my brother was shot when I was three, and I thought okay, that will bring it on, that’s for sure.  

SID: But what could she do about it? 

JOAN: And so in talking to her and praying with her and ministering to her, I talked to her about the situation, it turned out that her, I think it was her 11 year old brother had a buddy and the buddy got mad, and the buddy went home got a gun and came back and shot him point blank right in front of her, and for 30 years, I’m sorry, for 85 years she had walked in unforgiveness, 85 years, not only that but had walked in pain, had nightmares every night, every night, tormenting her for 85 years. And I ministered to her and I said, I said, you know you need to forgive him, and so we did, you know, we went through the forgiveness process, and I mean it was as if her face was all wrinkled at 88 and as God, as she forgave him, she looked like 50, just like that. And I said I didn’t ever pray for fibromyalgia, I said how do you feel because fibromyalgia you are just in pain everywhere, she said I’m healed. And that was Saturday morning and by Sunday night, I mean each service, and I was there for several services, each service people would go in, she didn’t even look the same, she absolutely got a total complete makeover, a facelift and everything and she is doing great. And she said if I had only known it had been that simple.  

SID: It is that simple. There is going to be a power encounter that you are going to see, a demonstration of the Living God, are you ready? Just before Joan prays I heard that there is someone with your right leg and you have a pain, it’s the upper part of the leg, you have a pain there, I tell you it is gone. In Yeshua, that’s Hebrew for Jesus, In Yeshua’s name. Joan, would you pray for people, especially for those who are having problems with marriages, problems with children, please pray for them.  

JOAN: Okay, what we need to do and you heard me mention just a few minutes ago about laying your children on the altar, and the same things goes with your mom, your dad, your spouse, your job, your boss, your brother, your sister, whatever it is,  

SID: Listen, the whole modulo, the whole everything  

JOAN: The whole kit and caboodle, and what happens is if you pick them back up off the altar you’ll start feeling pains in your neck and your shoulders, and those are just signs, oh I’ve picked up the worry of finances again, you know, Father I lay my finances on your altar. And it’s very important to do that, and just repeat after me, and after the program you will have time to do this more, and go through a list of people and just say Father, I lay my daughter, and then say their name, on the altar, I give her to you, I repent for trying to do your job and the job of the Holy Spirit and Father I give her to you in Jesus name. And then like women, you know, just repeat after me, Father, I lay my husband on the altar, Father, I lay my husband on the altar, Father I lay my husband on the altar, it usually takes about eight times for the women to finally do it for the first time, and just say Father I lay my husband on the altar, I’ve tried to make him into the Godly man that I want him to be, but Father, I release him to you, I’ll be the best wife that I know and to love him unconditionally, but Father, I release him to you. And you can tell when you pick him back up because when you start to hurt here and there and it’s like, and things aren’t going really well, and it’s amazing, because people will say I laid my husband on the altar and he completely changed, no, what changed is your attitude toward your husband because it is not your job to fix him, it’s God’s job to fix him.

 SID: In other words, we do our job and god does his. 

JOAN: And let him do his. 

SID: It’s so simple you need help to get confused, Joan. 

JOAN: Yes, I know that and we try to make it hard, it’s like with healing, and people say well you pray for somebody and in a minute they are healed, well the Bible says that you are to lay hands on the sick and see them recover, comma, and it doesn’t take longer than that to see them recover, you are going to cast out devils in my name, comma,

 SID: We only have a few seconds, look in the camera and pray especially for spines right now.  

JOAN: Okay, father right now in the name of Jesus I send the word of healing in Jesus name, I command those spines to line up in Jesus name, I command the deterioration of that spine to be reversed, I speak an entire new spine in Jesus name, I course the breast cancer, the prostate cancer, any cancer in any body that is watching right now in Jesus name. Father I thank you for the kneecap that was replaced the last time I was on, but Father there is more knees that need to be replaced in Jesus name, I speak a new rotator cup in Jesus name, new wrists, carpal tunnel is cursed in Jesus name, arthritis is cursed in Jesus name, Father I thank you the upset stomach,  

SID: It’s done, it’s done, it’s finished,  

JOAN: In Jesus name, amen.