Sid: If you’ve been listening to my guest this week, John Fenn I believe that the Holy Spirit is just bubbling within you because he had several visitations from Jesus about what is going to happen in the future, about what’s going to happen to our economy and how there will be, and what’s going to happen to our government. And we will have only one option, but to go back to the way the church was originally and he had three visitations in particular. The first one, he was showing what would happen in the future and that literally given a history lesson of what normally happens a move of God’s Spirit, everyone’s excited, everyone get’s charged up then they start churches and then they start Bible Schools and then they fossilize and then God has to have another move of God’s Spirit. And then in the second move of God’s visitation that He had, the Lord started talking to him about what the first church was like and it was relationship based not program based, family based, not mega church based. And then the third visitation He told you where he was headed with you was house churches. Tell me about that third visitation.
John: Well, I had actually concluded about three weeks before and told my wife, I said, “You know I really don’t want to pastor a church again, but if I ever did I would do it like Paul did, because the whole of the New Testament was written to people sitting in Living Rooms in home based churches. And I kind of let that slid and then November 4th of 2001 at Edmonton, Alberta comes Jesus right in the middle of the worship. And one of the things that He said to me as He came over was that, “I want you to be a resource, that you can facilitate the development of house churches around the world.” And I was kind of taken about when He said, “I want you to start a house church network.” And I would not say flippantly, but I was so surprised and I said, “Well, do you have a name for it?” And I almost said it like that, and when you are in the Spirit like that what you really have in your heart comes out and so it sounds putrid, I’m horrified that I said that to the Lord, but that’s how it came out because I was so surprised. And He just shot back right away, He said, “The Church without Walls International.” Now what is interesting is if you goggle Church Without Walls you’ll get over a million hits. It’s like calling a church, Grace or something like that. But for me and for what he wanted for me that’s The Church without Walls International” and that’s as being out of Tulsa. But then He laid hands on me, and He said, “You’ve been doing the work of an apostle but now I’m laying hands on you ordaining you as an apostle for this task.” And He gave me further instructions that we could start; you know gather people together and start and He would regulate the growth of it to grow by the quality of the relationships. And that’s really where our heart has been. We really don’t want to grow for growth sake, we want to grow as we get to know one another, as we network together; and it’s what we’re doing all around the world today. We have people traveling back and forth getting to know each other and that’s very rich and very relationship rich and very supernatural in the miracles that we see as well.
Sid: Well, I would like to go there right now, I mean you’re telling me things that provoke me to so much jealousy, you’re telling me in these little house churches you have such supernatural phenomena coming in as the glory cloud. Tell me what occurs when that happens?
John: Well, you know part of it I want to preface it by saying this Sid. When you are realizing that you are doing things the way the New Testament actually describes it, that is knowing that from Matthew through to Revelation these letters went out to people sitting in living rooms and you can actually understand it within that context. There’s an anointing, there is a confidence, and there’s an endorsement in the Spirit when you are doing things the exact same way that Paul and James and John did things. And so it’s not unusual, we’ve had many times, not only in our home core church in Tulsa, but in our affiliates around this nation and in Europe and elsewhere and I get the same reports. For instance, we’ll begin in worship and there’s several people’s eyes are opened up into the Spirit realm and see a white shinny cloud almost like a fog or a midst, the glory cloud that settles upon us and when that happens, and this has happened several times, nobody wants to talk, nobody wants to speak, it’s like the Lord is speaking so individually and so personally to everyone that no one wants to break that silence. And it’s almost like a download often times where things are just dropped into us and I’ve had people tell me this. Do you remember two or three weeks ago when we had the glory cloud there, I realized that something was put in me that I just became aware of last night when I was praying; it’s that sort of experience. But because if you are on the outside and you say, “Awe. I want to experience that and you’re thinking that’s in a traditional church or program or we had a service like that one time.” I’m telling people that you’re free to do this in your living room at anytime; God will meet you right there you have to think of it in terms of its normal for God to meet us when six to twenty people get together in a living room and seek Him.
Sid: Now, there’s other phenomena that will occur when sometimes every bit of stress leaves everyone; tell me about that.
John: Another thing we found, not only again in Tulsa but I’ve heard it in our Billings, Montana affiliate and elsewhere, and that is what can only be described as a rushing mighty wind that peoples ears are opened up in the spirit realm. And again we’ve had meetings with ten or twelve people and we had a half a dozen of them see the same thing and that is like a spiritual tornado spinning around. We’ve had it different times where it’s been a fire and other times when it’s been like a glory cloud spinning around. One time in particular that stands out where it started in the middle of the room because in the house church we are kind of sitting around in a circle in the livingroom and as we continued to worship the Lord and just stay in His presence that swirling and the rushing sound in our ears grew until that wind, that Devine wind was actually blowing across everybody. And you could feel it just literally pick up the stress and pick up the worry and the care right out of you and just like pull it out of you. And it’s just some of the most amazing amazing things happen and again, there’s so many supernatural things that happen so great of a presence of the Lord that we consider this to be normal Christianity.
Sid: Well, one thing I’ve noticed this is the second time that I’ve interviewed you and every time I’ve interviewed you the presence of God is so tangible and I have to believe that this is what occurs in your house meetings.
John: That’s right and there’s something to say too Sid that house church is not a miniature of what we left. House is not a miniature of what we left, if people are just meeting together and it’s just us four and no more.
Sid: And you have one leader and it’s like a mini-church in most house groups.
John: That’s right then you are not doing a house church. House church is not based on the house and saying we’re going to have church in it. It has to be the dynamic as presented in the New Testament which is participatory in nature rather than dictatorial, rather than one…
Sid: But don’t you find that we have so been conditioned to have a one man show that we sit back passively even if we were to come to one of your house church meetings; we’ve been trained not to participate.
John: And there are transition times, there are certainly a transition time where people have to adjust there thinking in so many different areas. Sometimes it’s just a real step of faith just to go to somebody’s house that they don’t know or that they’re invited by a friend. But what happens is that it’s so natural and it’s so relaxed and often times afterwards there’s food involved and you get to know one another.
Sid: Oh, that’s where the Jewish side comes in always, we always have food.
John: Well, there’s often times that’s where a lot of the real ministry takes place because you’ll see a couple people grab a plate of food and then go head off in the corner of the living room. And that’s where somebody feels lead to open up about a situation in their lives and that’s where they pray and that’s where they talk it out and that’s where the real discipleship really happens is over food. And I think that that’s very biblical, very Jewish. But it’s a supernatural element, that’s what I really want to communicate is that it’s more than people getting together and say we’re going to have church in the house.
Sid: You know even when you say this to me I still am trying to grasp it that the Lord wants with a passion relationship Christianity; speak a little bit about that.
John: Well, it’s not, and what happens in relationship Christianity, think about that. How does, when the New Testament says for the Father’s to raise up the sons and the older women the younger women and discipleship through sons and daughters rather than just anointed meetings. What happens is this those who know get an opportunity to bring someone alongside and show them how to do whatever they need to do in this walk through life together. But then there comes a point where the person that knows how to do it steps back and watches their little friend, their son or daughter in the faith do it on their own. And that’s the nature of the relationship based elements of it where leadership; my job as an apostle, my job as a leader is to train other leader to lay down the need to always talk to always be in charge. It is the giving away of the church to the people; it is the empowerment of the people. That’s where the relationship start, when they realize that you’re a person just like me, yet you know how to walk in the things of the Spirit. So many times one of the greatest joys in my heart is to watch a person prophecy for the first time or lay hands on a person and watch a person be healed for the first time. For the realization to come that you know what we are all equal in Christ, the same Jesus lives in each of us and it’s merely our gifts function differently; but that’s all the difference is. We are all equal, me as an apostle is equal to someone who is a servant whose joy is to set up the chairs in a circle and vacuum the floor before people come. We are all equal, and when people realize that its servant based and humility based leadership and that our job is to empower the people.
Sid: You know, one of the things that has been troubling me for a long time is the person that has a business card and at the end of their name it says apostle or at the end of their name it says, prophet. It’s almost like they have to advertise who they are.
John: Don’t get me started on that brother, ha-ha-ha. You know it’s Jesus said it this way in Mark chapter 10 verses 42 to 46 he said, you know the gentiles in leadership lord their authority and so others serve them. He said, “It shall not be so among you, if you want to be the greatest leader then become the greatest servant.”
Sid: Our time has slipped away.
