Sid: My guest is the sister of Pastor Dave Roberson and he’s been a guest many times on Messianic Vision.  Her name is Donner Roberson and Donner was probably the youngest prostitute in America, I mean she was abused from a very very young age.  She got into drugs, she got into witchcraft, she was hit by a truck but God has His hand on her.  God preserved her life and He came to her in a vision and He literally said “He wanted to take her out of all of this,” but she didn’t even understand this dream that she had in which Jesus came to her. All she knew is she loved Him and she even burned up all her books on witchcraft but it took her a number of years until she finally for the first time in her life started reading the Bible and she got born again.  And unfortunately the devil had another trap for her got her into a very very religious church in which it’s unbelievable Donner what they did to you.  And then you had found another church and you gave them  a prophetic word and they told you to leave and then you got involved in a custody battle of your granddaughter. Which miraculously you won but you made a deal with God, what was that deal?

Donner: Well, I told Him if we win that battle I said “I’ll serve you all my days.”

Sid: Because you see what had happened is that Donner had become so wounded from her experiences in these churches that she wasn’t really walking with the Lord.  She said “Lord, if You will do this I’ll serve You all of my days.” And of course as you said yesterday you didn’t have to make any deal with Hm, He was going to help you no matter what but then how did you miraculously find your brother in another state that is now a pastor in a church?

Donner:  Well that was really interesting because I had been praying for several years in the Spirit again and I started a cleaning business Sid because nobody would hire me, I was a liability they said with all the physical injuries I had so I had to start my own cleaning company just so I would have work.  And so when I was working I would pray in the Holy Ghost hour after hour and listen to worship music and just pray and clean and pray and clean.  And one night I come in from work and I turned on Benny Hinn, I was watching it and he said “I have a word for a lady.”  And that’s what I was thinking I said “I wish Benny had a word for me because I was so hungry for God and he said “Some lady just laid across her bed and said “She wished that Benny had a word for her.”  Well that really got my attention, he said “You just started a business and I just want you to know that God’s going to restore things including your family.”  So that excited me and I was praying even more and I told my son about it.  Well he was taking the landscaper because my son was head over maintenance at these apartment complexes and he ws taking the landscaper to show him the work he needed to do and the landscaper saw a Christian tape in my sons pickup and he said “Do you know Dave Roberson?”  And he said “Yeah, he’s my uncle.”  And he said “You’re kidding.”  He said, “No, he really is my uncle” and he said “You know your cousins here?”  And so he got us in touch with my son and David my bother’s oldest son and then David got on the phone and reconnected me with both of my brothers and just couldn’t believe it because I was in a different state from when the last time I saw all of them.

Sid: How long had it been since you saw them?

Donner:  About fifteen years.

Sid: And you had no way of getting in touch with them.

Donner: No.

Sid: But God had a way so then of course you had that truck accident so you probably had…you were dealing with a lot of pain and other things. But you then moved to Tulsa to  be with your brother Pastor Dave Roberson but what I understand is you were a very sickly woman not just from the truck accident but from your cleaning business.  What happened?

Donner: Well, during that time because I used to work 10 – 12 sometimes 14 hours a day  exposed to these chemicals all the time and I had had cancer earlier in the years so my system was I guess not up to what it should have been.  But anyway the chemicals I got I chemically poisoned and it was going into my bones they said “Bone cancer, borderline and he said “The white blood cells were going crazy.”  I would have sores from the chemicals that wouldn’t heal up for months, I had absolutely no energy I mean I would cry, I’d be so tired and my bones hurt so bad that I couldn’t hardly function.

Sid: So you’re telling me not only did you have a couple hundred broken bones from the truck accident but you also your bones were deteriorating from the chemicals.

Donner: Yes. 

Sid: My goodness.

Donner:  And so when I very first connected with my brother I came to one of his conferences and that’s when I decided to move out so it was in six months I moved to Tulsa.  And I went from a full cleaning business making a lot of money down to $500 a month as a housekeeper just praying and worshiping God.  And it took 3 years for me to walk out of all this but He was healing me emotionally too.  And all of a sudden it was like my health exploded I felt so good, I woke up one morning and there was just no pain, and we were getting ready to go into another conference and I had been praying and worshiping and mediating on the word.  And a lady came up to me and I was helping serve at one of the conferences I was serving the bagels because we serve food in the mornings and a lady come up and said “Can I have a hug?”  And I said “Oh sure.”  And she couldn’t make it back to her chair, it’s just like everything exploded, people were falling out under the power of God.  I couldn’t tough anybody hardly.

Sid: Just as you are sharing that I can feel the presence of God pouring over the airwaves.

Donner:  He’s just…and you know He ministered to me through that five month of solid worship and praying in the Holy Ghost.  At the one point in time it was five months I did the worship continually. And He said “You know,” He said “We really have a lot in common, this was like Jesus was speaking to my heart.”  And I’m thinking “What, what do we have in common?”  He said “I was beaten,” He said, “I was sold.”  He said “I was betrayed.”  He said He told me all these things and I go “Yeah, I guess we do have stuff in common don’t we?”  And I just, I don’t know I just flooded with His love, and I just knowing that I really was going to live, I wasn’t going to die like they said.  And all my healing came through prayer and worship and you know He taught me to change the way I eat and different things too because He wants us to have wisdom.”  But it was just phenomenal what He did in my life.

Sid: But what I’m seeing is He did not do all these horrible things that happened, we know who was responsible, demons and the devil but it’s almost as if you were so crushed that now you have a lot of room for Jesus to fill.

Donner: Yeah.

Sid: What happens when you minister to people, tell me someone that you’ve prayed for recently.

Donner: Well, one of the them was the one I call Kate, when I met her she had been in and out of mental institutions and she was a Christian so the idea that a Christian can’t have devils that’s not true.  And any way she was on so many medications Sid she couldn’t hardly function.  She was so paranoid she wouldn’t hardly leave her home and her Mom had come to several of my meetings and so one time when I was in Louisiana she brought Kate. And I asked Kate I said “Can I pray for you?” And she goes “No.”  And I said “Oh okay,” I said “It’s okay the Holy Spirit’s a gentleman and I just put my hand on her shoulder and the power of God hit her and she said “What did you do to me?”  And I said “Oh nothing Honey the Lord just loves you.”  Well it intrigued her so much she met with me the next day and we talked the three hours. Now I have a letter from a physicist stating that Kate has been set free of so many things and she’s down to one medication.  She was diagnosed with schizophrenia, schizo affective disorder, bipolar, multiple personality disorder and she became posses when she was sixteen, seventeen years old and now she’s forty-five and she’s free and sometimes she travels with me in ministry.  I actually have an enforcement from a physicist stating that this was miraculous because all of the systems of schizophrenia and everything that she had was not curable.

Sid: You know you have learned a lot of the invisible world, but the one thing that I keep hearing and I think it’s amazing while the Holy Spirit was talking to you brother about what would be accomplished in his life life by spending long periods of time praying in tongues you were doing the same thing.  Both of you were getting the same results but when you read his book “The Walk of the Spirit, the Walk of Power” what did you learn from it?

Donner: What I learned how the enemy really does attack your mind and how at times he can even turn people on you you don’t really have to do anything wrong.  Because all of my life I was you know taught to believe I was always wrong and the betrayals and different things or even the betrayals of your own emotions you know if you don’t get your emotions under control they can…I don’t know without the Holy Spirit how people can survive the emotions because you know they can rule and reign in a person and if it’s the wrong emotion they can take you down the wrong path.  Or if you have to have certain emotions just to believe God’s working it can take you down a wrong path.    

Sid: Donner we’re out of time…

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, her name is Mary Jo, or her family calls her Ma Jo Pennington. I’ve been talking to her all this week about her granddaughter because on September 2^nd 2003 her granddaughter had a freak accident, fell 9 feet on to cement by the swimming pool, off of this sliding board. She should have died but she was supernaturally caught up by as she said “Six Big, Big,” I love to say it “Big Angels” And she had a Heavenly encounter; she saw God, she saw Jesus she saw aborted babies; she saw things that people just read about. She saw, and through the eyes of a 4 ½ year old Victoria.  They taped recorded what she had seen and her grandparents put it in this book but there’s a section here Ma Jo in your book the second time that your granddaughter had a problem in the swimming pool.  Tell me about that.

Mary Jo:  Yes, well we were diving to the bottom of the pool because we saw some leaves down there and we’d bring them up and put them on the float that we had that you could see through it had mesh in the middle.  And then we went over and put the leaves all in the bucket and we came back over and she wanted to dive some more and I was tired.  And so she said she wanted to go down one more time by herself, well she swam down deeper and deeper it’s a pretty deep pool.  As she swam down and suddenly she disappeared, I was looking through the mesh watching her go down and I shoved that thing out of the way so that I could clearly see to the bottom of the pool and she was not there.  And I looked all around the pool, my eyes were just going everywhere I was just scared I mean it really scared me.  She was just absolutely gone and it was 4:00.

Sid: Now wait a second now it was daylight, I mean you can see through a pool, how come you didn’t see her?

Mary Jo:  She was gone.

Sid: Huh.

Mary Jo:  And then it was longer than her fall from the top of the slid to the pavement, it was much longer than that.  And suddenly she came flying out the other side of the pool; didn’t even touch the side of the deck, it was just like somebody threw her from under the water out of the pool and she landed on the deck.  I said “Victoria, where did you go?”  And she just looked at me; I said “Did you go to Heaven?”  And she said, “Yes.”  I said “Who did you see?”  And she just dove into the pool, because I thought she went to see the babies again, she dove into the pool and swam down to the other end and called back over her shoulder, “I saw all of them.”  And that’s all she would tell me right then.  But later with her mother she mentioned this and she told her “I went to the bad place.”  She said I saw the monsters and things that go “Ah, ah, ah, ah!”  I mean she just really, she said “Well, did you see Hell?”  And she didn’t want to talk about that and later she said “That that’s really way down deep,” that she didn’t want ever to go there but she went to the bad place.  I don’t know what she differentiates the bad place from Hell, but she said she had two fiery angels with her that walk in the fire of the Holy Spirit.  And so I asked her, I had transcribed the tape and I knew about those two angels so I asked her “Victoria did you have these two angels with you when you went down to the bad place?”  She said “No, I had hundreds of angels with me to protect me.”  Now you know if you read the book she means millions when she says hundreds because that’s how she describes the angels in Heaven and the babies in the baby place.  And there was many more than hundreds there; but she told me about the monsters and that they look horrible and they got goo and slime on them and these are demons and she calls them enemies.  And they trust in satan. She said “If only he went down there by his self then he wouldn’t have any many.  What she meant was “If satan had been thrown down by himself he wouldn’t have many demons,” but she said any many.  That’s the only way she could say it as a 4 year old.

Sid: And of course as he Bible states he came down with fallen angels so he had a lot of demons.

Mary Jo:  He did have a lot of them and she was just saying “If only he only was thrown down by himself he wouldn’t have any many because they are so many and she was so frightened of them.  And the reason as she saw and she heard him speaking and she heard these other big demons that were princes over things that they thought they were kings.  And then she said, she said “They’re really big and they’re really mean and they get the people.”  She said “Those are the really bad ones that get people.”  The biggest one that was king, she said “He’s actually not a king, Jesus is the one that is the King.”  And she went on to tell what satan said to his demons down there trying to whip them up into shape so that they would come and get more people.  And he actually admitted in this passage of transcription of that I had of her satan admitted that they’re getting saved by the hundreds, that they’re turning, but they’re spreading the gospel way down to 100 people which again means untold millions of people are turning to God in this time of the end.  It’s going to be a tremendous revival. As she went on to describe she saw the people, she said “They were in water, they were in fire water and they live for 100 years and never die.”  And she said “That they was bald, all of them was bald and that they were dragging more people down there and they’re so skinny.”

Sid: Do you think she was describing the lake of fire?

Mary Jo: It had to be that and she said “The people were so skinny” and her voice broke and she said “I don’t even know how to handle that.”  That the people were so skinny and so bald and they were living and she said “They lived actually lived in the water, it was fire water; the lived in it for 100 years and you never die.”

Sid: Can you imagine assuming the Lord tarries and your granddaughter grows up to be older and starts preaching this; I mean what kind of an evangelist will she be.  Do you believe that God’s called her to be an evangelist?

Mary Jo: Well, she said not 2 weeks ago we were talking about why she was brought back.  Because she wanted to stay in Heaven, she said “She was brought back to preach but not while I’m a little kid, when I’m a little older.”   

Sid: Huh.

Mary Jo: But I don’t have the power now, but she knows she ordained to preach.  

Sid: Was she traumatized by this visitation to this bad place which is a type of Hell?

Mary Jo: Well, she was fearful for a time but this was also about…this was the time that she was going through the fear of God.  Because Jesus took her there not to scare her, but to prove to her that He was much bigger than them, she said Jesus is much more bigger than them because He could even protect me because I’m just a little wee girl.  And see she had been afraid of the demons up to then, but He wanted to show her His power and might because she didn’t have any reason to be scared of the demons.  She didn’t have any reason to be afraid to talk about Heaven because He wants her to talk about it, but she had reason to be fearful of Him because He’s the most powerful.  And so that’s when she started being…when I would pray at night “Lord send your angels to protect Victoria.”  She would slide down under the cover and hide and then she started, when I started to say angels she’d slap her hand over my mouth.  She was afraid of a visitation of angels.  I said “Victoria, what are you afraid of?”  We prayed against the demons, we cleansed the house, we taught about the demons to get them away from you.”  She said “Ma Jo I’m scared of the angels, I’m scared of Jesus and I’m scared of God.”  So he was putting her through this fear of God school that many ministers have spoken about where she only feared Him and did not fear the demons.

Sid: But the thing that set her free you told me was when she had her encounter with God and God put her on His knee.

Mary Jo:   Well, yes when she was afraid when she went into the throne room and she saw all of the…she wasn’t afraid of God because she had already seen Him dance at the baby place but

Sid: Dance?

Mary Jo:   Dance. 

Sid: How did He dance?

Mary Jo:    He pulled His robe up between His legs and tucked it in His belt and He danced and He hugged my relatives.  But He danced at the baby place and so did Jesus and so when she got to the throne room was what scared her was the things with all the wings and the faces and the eyes and the wheels and she was just so scared of that.

Sid: The thing described by Ezekiel.

Mary Jo: Yes, yes. But when she got within where she could see God more clearly He motioned through His mind and hers.  He never had to use His voice they spoke by their mind and He said “Come over on My lap.”  And she went and climbed up His leg and onto His lap and crawled across His lap and she was not scared anymore.

Sid: You talked about dancing, did she see much dancing in Heaven?

Mary Jo: She said everybody in Heaven is either singing, laughing, or dancing.

Sid: So how did these churches say that you don’t do dancing, these denominations?

Mary Jo:  I don’t know.

Sid: In fact I think I recall rereading in the book they were dancing in circles.

Mary Jo:   They were doing wonderful dances much like the Jewish dances and she in fact showed us on the side of the pool they hold their arms out the side of each other and they go sideways and they run and jump a little and they were going in circles. And as she was describing more or less Jewish dances; let me just say one thing here.  We were at a Messianic Jewish Church not long ago and it was a holiday and they were singing in Hebrew. And she was singing every word in Hebrew that they were and I was just staring at her, the people on both sides of her were just staring at her this little girl who couldn’t even see the screen that they had the words on.  And when we sat down I said “How did you know the words?”  She said “Well, that’s a song we sung when we were dancing on the crystal sea on the sea of glass.

Sid: My goodness what kind of feedback are you getting from people that read this encounter this 4 ½ year old your grand-daughter Victoria had going to Heaven?

Mary Jo:  Everybody is just…they can’t get enough of it. Some people are ordering huge amounts of it just to give it away because they’re so excited about it.  It’s just; it’s just going to make such an impact because it has so many different things for the body of Christ and for the world and for people who have been hurt.  We’re getting so much, we had no idea that it was going to impact people this way.

Sid: And yet you felt God told you to write the book, He gave you the title.

Mary Jo:  He did.

Sid: I have to tell you something, I agree with the Orthodox Jewish Rabbi’s in this point, they say “We are in the footsteps of Messiah.”  You can almost hear His footsteps every day that you see the headlines in the newspapers.  You see what’s going on in the financial shaking throughout the world, that you see what’s going on in the weather. I mean you’d have to be a zombie, you’d have to be dead to not realize that we are in the footsteps of Messiah. My guest is Steve Hill and Steve had an open vision which he saw and he saw an avalanche of deception hitting.  And why not the Bible says that in the last days “There will be deception” and that’s what he has seen.  When people hear your vision or read your new book although you can’t read it yet but we have it available do they accuse you of being unloving, old fashion I mean this holiness stuff that’s passé.

Steve: Well Sid I appreciate you bring that up and I welcome the audience and it’s just great talking with you.  People believe it or not, as they listen to the vision they have been kinder then negative.  It’s like I don’t know it’s like a spiritual father speaking to the children sternly.  And yeah we do have the negative but I don’t ever answer them and David Wilkerson taught me that, he said, “Don’t waste your time.” He said “But minister to the people.”  I’ve got in my hands something; now an avalanche is a pile, it comes from a piling of snow on top of layer, after layer, after layer and then it gets so tall it’s got to give way and it’s called a slab.  And the old days Sid they used to call…they used to think that the devil would ride and witches would ride on the top of these avalanches and they would guide them into the cities.  Think about this and they would kill everyone in their path, this is what people believe and would to God that people would believe what I have seen in this vision that I have in my hand am avalanche probe.  It is 10 ½ feet long and it’s the most violent tool I’ve ever had in my tool chest and the hardest illustration that I’ve ever used.  It actually you use it to stab the snow dig deeper and deeper it’s a long shaft and you’re looking for bodies; you’re looking for bodies.  I have in front of me Sid because of this avalanche of false teaching; I’ve got in front of me a montage or a collage of pictures of avalanches and warning signs and in the middle of it are body bags; body bags full of dead skiers.  And I’m going “God not on my watch, I’m going to use this avalanche to represent the truth of Jesus, the truth of Yeshua and I’m going to go down and down and I’m going to find the people that are barely breathing.  I’m going to find the backsliders; I’m going to find the prodigals; I’m going to find these people and get them out of the snow before they die,” that’s why it could kill millions but I’m going to do everything I can to stop it.

Sid: Steve, my concern and I have a major burden for the kids that are in college, the kids that are in high school, and even elementary school they’re being…I mean you’re talking about the believer’s that are getting deception.  I’m worried about the ones that never even become believers that never even because they’re taught such lies about God and about the Bible something has got to penetrate them.  And the only thing I know that can penetrate them is what I saw you do at Brownsville and that is the presence of the power of the living God changing lives, transforming people.  I want you to speak to people now about the power of God.

Steve: Wherever you are at spiritually God loves you and has a plan for your life, I have preached to millions just as Sid has preached to millions.  At the Brownsville revival they came from everywhere they came from 160 nations of the world and now I travel around the world and it’s amazing.  No they’re not at Brownsville any more they came to get a touch and that’s what’s going to happen to you right now.  They came to get a touch and they went back to Singapore, and they went back to Ethiopia, they went back to Austria, they went back to their nations and God mightily moved.  And as I travel the Spirit of God that touched them He’s still moving.  So right now if you’re away from God, if you need Jesus to touch you maybe you’ve been consumed by this false teaching and you feel in your spirit something’s wrong or maybe you’ve never ever known the Lord.  There’s only one way to Heaven and that’s through the shed blood of Jesus; He died for you a man turned God, a God turned Man; Man God.  He died for you 2000 years ago on a rugged cross and there’s no greater love than this that a man put His life down for His friends.  He died for you my friend, and He wants to save you, He wants to set you free and as John the Baptist said, “Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.  And I’m using my avalanche probe right now to go into the hearts of men, women and children; pray with me out loud say “Jesus,” brother or sister pray with me say “Jesus, I ask You now to save me, I have sinned, I’m sorry, wash me Jesus, I repent.  Be my Savior, my Lord and my very best Friend, in Jesus Name Amen.”

Sid: Amen. Steve since you came back from the deathbed literally you did you should have been dead according to all the reports, the anointing of God has so, would you say that’s it fair to say it’s doubled on you?

Steve: Well, I’m not going to say that….

Sid: I’ll say it, I’ll say it then.

Steve: I am amazed at the anointing right now, and I’m talking about the power of God so…

Sid: Listen I’m shaking in my chair as you’re talking you don’t have to tell me. (Laughing)

Steve: It’s amazing man and another beautiful thing about the power of God is that you don’t have to be there for Him to touch you He can touch you right now and I pray that on everyone listening, “Touch them Lamb of God; touch them Jesus may they experience a fresh anointing Lamb of God in Jesus Name.”

Sid: I believe that if everyone listening to us right now if you’re sick, if you would take your hand and either put it on your body or if possible put it on the part of your body that you need healing I believe that if Steve prays right now that anointing on him will blast out just like those weapons get rid of the avalanches will blast out the cancer, the heart trouble the diabetes, the pain of any kind in your body.  Would you pray right now Steve?

Steve: Jesus, You know us, you knit us together in our mother’s womb, you know everything about us and right now I speak to every sickness, every disease be it cancer, heart problems, blood diseases Lord God, mind problems whatever it might be.  Sicknesses that just go on forever Lamb of God but you covered it all, every single sickness was covered on the back, on Your back on the cross. And Jesus today we look at the back of the cross and we thank You for Your healing, we thank You for the stripes, we thank You Lord that You paid the prince.  We receive it now in Jesus Name Amen.

Sid: Steve I want you to put together a few minutes of your final thoughts of what God is showing you through your vision of the avalanche.

Steve: I want to warn you that God has wrapped His hands around the rope that closes the curtain of this play that we call life.  He is ready to wrap things up, all the signs, everything is in place and I can’t believe anyone would not open up their Spirit and say “You know what this is for real, this is not a game I need to get right and stay right with Jesus.”  And I want to encourage you my friend, not only giving your life to Jesus but living your life day and in and day out for the Lord and you will be used of the Spirit of God in signs and wonders; and isn’t that your goal to be used of God.  God bless you, love you this is Steve Hill.  And I don’t know man God has plans for your life, in Jesus Name.

Sid: Well, I want everyone equipped to fulfill their destiny; personally for me I’m going to live into my nineties and then if I want to live more I think I will because I believe that I don’t believe that we have that much time.  I think Jesus is ready to come back any second and we have to live our life like that.

Sid:  What you’re about to hear I believe is the most important teaching I have ever done.  I believe that if you can comprehend and grasp, and I pray to God that I make it clear; if you can comprehend and grasp what I’m about ready to teach, it will dramatically change your life, your family’s life, and even this nation’s life.  Why?  Because this is what God calls the set time to favor Zion.  Now what do I mean by favor Zion? What I mean by favor Zion is the highest favor.  There are many things that can be done for the Jewish people and the nation Israel, and all of them are correct before God. From doing things such as humanitarian aid, such as helping Jews make Aliyah, return to Israel.  Such as having bless Israel nights, and I am in favor of all of these things. But there is a higher purpose for our life in these days, and God says “He who wins souls is wise.”  So why at this set time to favor Zion, why should be telling Jewish people that the Messiah has already come.  He is the Jew Jesus. You have to understand there is a particular call or anointing on physical Jews, it’s found in John chapter 4 verse 22. Jesus says “Salvation is of the Jews.”  Meaning every Gentile that knows Jesus owes a debt of gratitude to some Jewish person maybe back a number of generations but someone, some Jewish person, someone somewhere was faithful to bring the gospel and through that chain of people you got saved.  Why? Because salvation is of the Jews.  Well, if salvation is of the Jews what’s the call of the Gentile believer?  Glad you asked, Roman’s 11:11 “The call of the Gentile is to provoke the Jew to jealousy.”  It says actually in Roman’s 11:11 “To provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles,” or I like to just rearrange that and say “Salvation had come to the Gentiles to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy.”  Now can you see the spiritual DNA in a Jew is to reach the Gentile the spiritual DNA in a Gentile is to reach the Jew.  But we’re coming into a season for the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history. The key to this great move of God; in history is what I’ve been talking about at the beginning of every radio broadcast for years and years the One New Man.  Now you have to understand judgment, judgment is a Biblical term; there is the day of judgment coming rapidly towards us; but what is the key to judgment on nations, and what is the key to judgment on people?  Most people call themselves Christians and they don’t even know what this key is.  I’ll tell you what the key is, your treatment of the Jew in Israel releases blessings or judgment on individuals, on cities and on nations.  Genesis 12:3 tells us the key God says “Those who bless you,” I’m reading from the New Living Translation.  “I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who treat you with contempt.” Whose you?  The Jewish people Abraham’s seed, “I God will bless those who bless you, and curse those who treat you with contempt; all families on earth will be blessed through you.”  Abraham and his physical seed, or the reverse is true; all families of the earth will be cursed through you.  You see God judges Israel Himself. You read the Old Testament and you find out that God has a point where judgment pours forth.  He holds back more than anyone I’ve ever known, but there comes a point where judgment pours fourth and God judges Israel for her own sins.  But God uses Israel to judge the nations for their sins.  All that occurs is when a nation goes against the Jew or Israel they face the judgment of God.

Years ago FEMA used to have a web site that listed the worst economic disasters to ever hit America. Here’s the amazing thing 9 of the 10 worst economic disasters from things like hurricanes etcetera; to ever hit the United States 9 out of 10 according to FEMA occurred within hours of our Administration going against Israel.  Obadiah 1:15 in  the New Living Translation says “The day” and that’s talking about the Day of the Lord, or the Day of the Lord’s judgment; “The Day is near when I the Lord will judge all godless nations; as you have done to Israel so it will be done to you.”  Could it be any clearer?  I don’t think it could be any clearer.  Matthew 25:40 here’s a New Testament reference for the same thing.  Remember that chapter a great chapter Matthew 25 talks about a shepherd dividing goats from sheep and it represents nations. There will be goat nations in the last days and sheep nations in the last days and there was only one point separating a goat nation from a sheep nation. And that point is found in Matthew 25:40.  “And the king will answer and say to them assuredly I say to you in so much as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren you did it to me.” I looked up the word brethren in the Greek and you know what it means?  My brothers from the womb, who were Jesus’ brothers and sisters from the womb?  The Jewish people, now let me read it to you in context “And the King,” that’s King Jesus, “will answer and say to them assuredly I say to you in as much as you did it to the one of the least of these my physical brothers from the womb you have done it to me.”  And Joel 3:2 says “I God will gather all nations and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of my people, my heritage Israel whom they have scattered among the nations and they have divided up my land.”  That same key for judgment found in Matthew 25:40 is found in Joel 3:2.  The judgment is coming against Israel, specifically it says “Dividing up God’s land, Israel.”  But the reverse is true the blessings are there when you bless the Jewish people, the curses are there when you curse them but the blessings are there when you bless the Jewish people.

Major revivals throughout history are connected with what happens to the Jew in Israel. Here let me tell you and these are the biggest, the biggest. In 1897 we had the first Zionist Congress; a Zionist is someone that believes the physical Jew is tied entitled to the physical land of Israel.  So in 1897 Theodore Herzl called the 1^st Zionist Congress and you know what happened?  Just the start of Azusa Street, the Pentecostal revival 1948, you know what happened?  Israel became a nation, you know what the spiritual repercussion of that was?  The great healing revival, men and woman of God were suddenly raised up and tent meetings were raised up and tent meetings were happening all over the United States.  People like Oral Roberts, T.L. Osborn and 100’s of others just sprung up with great miracle ministries 1967 you know what happened ’67?  Jerusalem in Jewish possession, well you know what happened right after that? The charismatic revival, now would you like to know what the next move of God’s Spirit is?  There will be a repercussion from something monumental that will happen in Israel it’s going to cause a move of God’s Spirit like the world has never seen, we’ll get into that; and it’s called the One New Man.  Isaiah 43:19 talks about it.  “For I’m about to do something new, see I have already begun; do you not see it?”  Oops, but I do see we’re out of time I’ll continue teaching right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: Getting ready Mishpochah of the greatest revolution, the greatest revival, the greatest move of God’s Spirit on planet earth.  And I have in my hands a new book it’s a hardback by George Barna. Many of you are probably familiar with him he’s the founder and directing leader of the Barna Group a research and resource firm whose clients have ranged from such ministries as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, Focus on the Family, to corporations such as Ford, Walt Disney, US Navy, US Army.  And the thing that intrigued me is although George has written 35 books he writes them because of the research that he does through polling principals and the understanding of the scripture, and the prophetic edge he has. What he predicts come to pass because of all of these ingredients and one of his books, which he wrote back in 1990 “The Frog in the Kettle” more than 90% of the predicted outcomes became reality.  And I have in my hand his book “Revolution.”  And let me read from the back of the book “Millions of believer’s have moved beyond the established church and chosen to be the church instead.”  That almost doesn’t make sense George, what do you mean by that?

George: Well, what we have are many, many people that are so committed to their relationship with God that they’re saying “I cannot let anything stand in the way of me having an ever growing relationship with Him.”  And as they have assessed their life and everything taking place within it many of them have realized that while they have counted on their local church to be the place that facilitates the development of that relationship they now realize that actually that body is not really helping then.  And so they have said “You know what I can’t stand before a holy and righteous God after I die and say to Him “Well, don’t blame me it was my churches fault.”  We’re responsible for what takes place in our spiritual development and so if we can work with the church productively that’s a great thing and certainly we want to invest in it and help it grow, but if we don’t have that place that really enabling us to be all that God had really intended us to be, it’s really our responsibility to figure out how to facilitate that.  And what we’re seeing is that millions, tens of millions of people now are saying “I don’t want to just go to church I want to be the church.” And so they’re figuring out how to develop networks of relationships, how to get involved in different types of ministry activities that have absolutely nothing to do with a local church, and it’s not that these people hate the local church you know they would bless it as much as they can. They’re simply saying “But I have to be responsible for my life.  My commitment is such that I cannot stand back and allow my spiritual life to flounder; I have to take this thing by the horns and go for it.”

Sid: In America today the easiest thing is to go with the flow. It takes really almost a move of God for someone to go against that stream.

George: I think this is an incredibly significant period of time where we’ve got this many people who have lived in our culture which on the one hand probably morally is becoming more decadent, then it’s been perhaps it’s history.  But on the other hand we’ve got people who are experiencing so much pain and so much need and so much dissatisfaction and lack of fulfillment with life that they’ve finally come back and realized you know what God is the only answer.  His ways are the only ways that make sense and so I need to get really deeply in touch with that and wrap my life around His principals, so that all of this makes sense.

Sid: Now many of these millions of people that you give the title revolutionary to don’t understand what’s going on for instance take me.  I’ve been a believer now for over 30 years. It’s always been my thought if I don’t do something through the local church, if I’m not submitted to everything the pastor says or if I don’t God forbid attend a local church then there’s something wrong with me.  Do you find others are feeling that way?

George: One of the reasons I wrote the book was to encourage people like you who have that feeling.  As we were doing this research and it just kind of happened on to obviously God led us to this but it wasn’t intentional on our part we discovered that there are all these people throughout the country who have this kind of holy angst within them to try to reach out to God and have this deeper relationship.  We discovered that they couldn’t talk about it because every time they talk to another believer and they said “Well you know I’m not feeling like I’m really getting what I need to be deeper with God from my church.”  Oh, you can’t say that, every time well you know I’ve had to drop out of church so that I could be the church, “Oh you can’t do that.”  And so there was this whole issue that they were struggling with everything they talked to another believer who was part of a congregational church and had not really gone through this process of evaluating what was going on they were made to feel like they were defective Christians like they were second class citizens of the Kingdom of God. And what we’re trying to do now is to help them realize you know what if God wants to orchestrate your life use you in a different way that’s fine. You got to go back in church history and realize human beings made up the local church the way that it’s configured today about 1700 years ago. We’ve kind of made that tradition into something that we believe is holy and cannot be changed.  But the reality is when you look through scripture what you find is that God tells us the kinds of things that we need to believe the ways that we need to live, but He gives us very little in the way of methodology for practicing that.  He wants us to be His holy loving serving people obedient to Him, but whether we do it in a building, outside a building a lot of people a few people doesn’t matter to him.  What He wants is our hearts, he wants us to bear fruit for His kingdom.

Sid: I want you to define a revolutionary, and to tell me what are the passions of a revolutionary?

George:  A revolutionary is somebody who has said when I look at my life what I understand is that I live for one reason and that is to love, obey and serve God.  My life is all about Him, He created me for His purposes not for me to go out trying to make sense out of my own purposes.  And so these are individuals who say “I want more of God in my life, I will do whatever it takes to get it, I will go where He sends me; I will do what He tells me to do.  I live for Him.  That is first and foremost in my life.”  And as we examine these people more closely all these revolutionaries we found that there’s a commonality they have is that their constantly trying to balance these things that we’ve come to label the 7 passions of a revolutionary.  And these very simply are things like having constant intimate worship experiences with God.  In other words not just saying “Hey, I got to be at the place Sunday morning where they do the worship.

Sid: But why does that person have to be a revolutionary what your describing if someone were to know nothing but read the New Testament they would say “George Barna what you’re talking about is normal.”

George: Well, that would be wonderful if that were the case, but the reason we’ve labeled  these people revolutionaries is because they refused to become wrapped up in a the cultural assumptions that have really in many ways prevented us from being 1^st Century Christians. From being the kind of believers the devout followers of Christ that we’re called to be in scripture.  Am I suggesting that this something absolutely new on them?  Absolutely not. What I’m saying is what we’re thankfully finding is a growing cadre of people around the nation who are saying “You know when I read the book of Acts it doesn’t look at all like the church that I’ve been part of.  When I look at the book of Acts it doesn’t seem at all like the life style like I’m living today but I got to get back to that.”

Sid: What are other passions of revolutionaries?

George: Well, we talked about the constant intimate worship, secondly it has to do with having spiritual conversations with people that we know.  You know there’s all the talk about evangelism in churches but that typically become programmatic.  What you see in scripture is that it’s relational, it’s all about developing a personal connection and being able in a regular course of conversation to talk with people about the meaning of Christ for their life.  A third passion has to do with spiritual depth and formation of the person, we might think of this as discipleship.  But having some kind of deep commitment where every day they’re working on their knowledge of God, their relationship to Him and His scriptures.  The fourth passion has to do with how we invest all of the resources that God entrust to us for the advancement of His Kingdom.  So often we look at all the things that we have and we think it’s for us. It’s not for us, He has really kind of hired us, or empowered us to be portfolio managers for the Kingdom.  So our money, our ideas, our relationships, our possessions all these things and more were given to us for one reason, and that’s to advance His Kingdom.  Revolutionaries are constantly thinking about “How do I use it for that purpose.”  A fifth element has to do with our commitment to serving needy people what you see all throughout scriptures, it’s certainly throughout Jesus life is it’s about ministering to other individuals and so revolutionaries have that commitment.  A sixth thing has to do with the nature of our relationship.  Christianity is abundantly relational kind of faith, but it’s not just enjoying each other’s presence it’s also all about accountability being able to help each other grow by being serious about living in ways that scripture talks about.  And the final passion that we’ve found common to revolutionaries had to do with the centrality of family as a faith oriented experience.

Sid: Now do you know what you’re describing to me?

George: What?

Sid: You’re describing the Hebraic understanding of God and working out your relationship with God and man, as opposed to the Greco Roman understanding, that’s what you’re saying.  I even used the work Mishpochah to start my radio show which is a Hebrew word, and it means family.

George: Well, then we need more of that kind of teaching.

Sid: Okay Mishpochah maybe you have felt almost isolated because your so on fire for God and you don’t understand what is going on and you think maybe there’s something wrong with you because you’re almost bored by what’s going on.  You know George I spoke to someone from a very well-known and wonderful congregation that has been going to that congregation now for 30 years.  And you know what they said? The saddest thing, it hasn’t changed in 30 years. If you miss a Sunday you will go the next week and it’s the same.  But God has got so much more, He’s so diverse; you want to understand yourself, you want to understand what’s about ready to happen in the future….