SID: So we’re two nice Jewish people that were madly in love with the one who it was said above his execution stake, “King of the Jews,” Yeshua or Jesus. Now most believers do not understand the Hebraic understanding of covenant and in particular the covenant that God has with the Jewish people. Would you explain this a little, Sandy?

SANDY: In the scriptures, a covenant can be either conditional or unconditional. A conditional covenant is made between parties, each of whom has a legal responsibility or a responsibility before God to do certain things, to perform certain acts before that covenant can be fulfilled. In an unconditional covenant, not every party necessarily is committed to do certain things or perform certain acts before the covenant is fulfilled. In Abraham’s day, the way the covenants were cut is that animals were literally slaughtered and cut. The pieces of their bodies were cut up and laid up on the ground and the covenanting parties would then walk in between the pieces. And in effect, they were saying, as has been done to these animals, it should be done unto me if I do not fulfill my covenant towards you.

SID: Covenants were really sacred.

SANDY: Very sacred. They had almost a life of their own, as they should still today. In the case of Abraham’s covenant with God, God put Abraham into a spirit-induced sleep and then God himself as fire walked between those pieces. In doing so, God was stating as clearly as possible, He was executing a spiritual reality that His covenant with Abraham was dependent only upon the actions of God Himself alone on the character, on the mercy and grace of God. And God affirms that covenant with Abraham later on in the scriptures, and then specifically He states that Isaac, and not Ishmael inherits it. Although Ishmael is blessed, he doesn’t inherit the Abrahamic covenant.

SID: The blessing for Ishmael, the head of the Arabs, but not the land. Go ahead.

SANDY: Not the land. And then God goes on to say that his covenant will be inherited specifically by Jacob and specifically not by Esau. And then that covenant is reaffirmed throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, Psalm 105, which speaks about the covenant lasting forever, a thousand generations and including the land. And then it’s been reaffirmed in the New Covenant, that sometimes people don’t notice.

SID: Give me in the example in the New Covenant.

SANDY: Well perfect example is Romans 9 through 11. In Romans 9 through 11, the Apostle Paul repeats over and over again, not just once, not just twice, but several times he repeats that God’s covenants and promises to Israel are still Israel’s. Romans, Chapter 9, he says that the covenants and promises are still Israel’s. He uses the word “is”. The promise IS still Israel’s. And in Greek, “is” means what it means in English. It’s a present ongoing tense. It still is. In Romans, Chapter 11, Paul writes, Verse 1, “Has God rejected His people? No God forbid,” he says. “God has not rejected His people.” Later on in the same chapter, he goes on to say that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

SID: If you were an attorney, would you like to take God’s case that this is an unconditional and not a conditional covenant, and based on the Land of Israel?

SANDY: I think it’s a pretty good case.

SID: I do, too. How about you audience, would you like to hear God’s case? Look, God, in you, a majority. Okay. Sandy, tell me about, I heard this by a wise man once, who’s now in Heaven. He says, “God uses Israel to judge the nations, but He judges Israel for her sin Himself.” I guess it’s founded in Genesis 12:3. Explain that.

SANDY: Genesis 12:3 is the covenant that God makes with Abraham, before he has this procedure with the animals, in which He tells Abraham to leave his father’s land, go to a land that God will show him and through that Abraham, all families of the earth will be blessed. And then God goes on to say that those that bless you I will bless; that those that curse you, I will curse.

SID: How about Matthew 25:40?

SANDY: Matthew 25:40 is key and it’s critical to the days that we’re in. Those that fed Israel, those that visited the Jewish people in prison, those that gave a cup of cold water to the Jewish people, Jesus says, “As you have done to the least of these brothers of mine, you’ve done it to me.” How a people treats the Jewish people reflects how that people would treat Jesus himself.

SID: Okay. Genesis 12:3, Matthew 25:40, all says you have a choice. Your nation can be a goat nation, a goat has a mind of its own, or a sheep nation, a sheep follows the shepherd. And you as an individual, you can either bless the nation Israel and the Jewish people and be blessed by God, according to Genesis 12:3, or you can curse the Jewish people and the nation Israel and be flattened by God. Be right back.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I can’t wait for you to hear what is in my opinion the most important thing that will distinguish the false church from the real church in the last days, and I’ll give you a clue in one word: Israel. Now my guest Sandy Teplinsky, like myself, was raised in an orthodox Jewish home. She went to an orthodox synagogue and when she got to college, she decided, I want to think a little for myself. She investigated different religions. Finally came, a New Testament came in her hand. Did you feel funny reading that, Sandy?

SANDY: Well I was brought up to believe it was the forbidden book. And actually, the only reason that I took one in my hands and read it was that I was attempting to disprove the Gospel.

SID: Well what happened? I know what happened.

SANDY: Well the interesting thing is that having read so many other religious books on my quest for God, that when I read the New Testament it conveyed a love and a life force, which we know is the Holy Spirit, that seemed to jump off the pages into my heart like nothing else that I had read. And it was also so Jewish a book. It was so Jewish, that as I flipped through the pages, I actually did much more than flipping, I studiously poured through them. I thought either this is the world’s best kept secret, if this is what so-called Christianity is, or because I’m finding myself believing it and I’m finding it so consistent with the Old Testament, which we knew as the Hebrew Scriptures, that if I believe this I am really going to Hell. I’m doomed. It’s one extreme or the other.

SID: So why did you proceed with such a repercussion potential?

SANDY: Because I became convinced it was true. And when you are convinced that God is God and that truth is truth, what can compare with that?

SID: You had no choice. Then Sandy goes on and she becomes an attorney. And I would like a Messianic Jewish attorney to tell me why your position on Israel is one of the major dividing lines of the true church and the false church. Take me to a couple of scriptures, Joel 3:2 and Zechariah.

SANDY: Joel 3:2 refers to something that takes place in the context of the End Times. God says that He is going to judge all the nations that have divided up His land. It’s a very serious matter in God’s eyes. And as we know, Israel has been divided up already many, many, many times, and there’s…sadly the scriptures indicate even more to come.

SID: And Zechariah 12:3.

SANDY: Zachariah 12:3 talks about God gathering all nations to surround Jerusalem as in a military assault, causing Jerusalem to be a burdensome stone to all nations. And yet, God says that He will cause those nations that surround Jerusalem to become burdened by their assault and God Himself is the one to retaliate and to release judgment on the nations.

SID: Because Israel is the apple of God’s eye, I’m reminded of the Living Bible that says, “He that touches Israel is the same as someone that pokes their finger in God’s eye.” The devil is starting all sorts of teachings to get your eye off of God and off of the apple of His eye, Israel. There’s something, Sandy, called fulfillment theology. It’s a big word. What does it mean?

SANDY: Fulfillment theology is a theology that takes one precious scripture and exaggerates it, and builds a whole theology around it. Matthew 5:17, Jesus, Yeshua says that, “He has come to fulfill the Law and the prophets,” which he has. Fulfillment theologians reinterpret the scriptures through that particular verse to mean that all of the promises that God has ever made are now completely fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ. Now this includes all of the prophetic promises and prophetic plans.

SID: How can they say that, because so many things haven’t even happened yet.

SANDY: Well they’re not reading the Bible.

SID: They’re reading one verse.

SANDY: They’re taking one verse out of context, but they’re also not reading the whole Bible. They’re neglecting the Hebrew Scriptures, which of course provide the foundation and the root of our understanding of the New Covenant scriptures. You can’t completely understand in its fullness the New Covenant scriptures without an understanding of the Old Covenant scriptures.

SID: Well in addition to throwing out the Old Covenant, which you’ve got to be nuts over, because there’s so much that hasn’t happened yet in there, in addition to the moral law, in addition to everything about the return of Jesus that’s there, many are throwing out the Book of Revelation. They say it’s already happened. What do you say, Sandy?

SANDY: Well I’m thankful that it hasn’t yet already happened.

SID: Me, too.

SANDY: Because I’m looking forward to the Lord’s return. There are some people that believe that all of the prophecies pertaining to Israel or Israel’s restoration have already been fulfilled. They say that they were fulfilled by the year 70 A.D., when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, but that is not the case. There are many, many prophecies that we cannot in any fair way say have already been fulfilled.

SID: They say it was fulfilled even though the Book of Revelation was written through John after the time they said it was fulfilled. So thery are little — there’s a Hebrew word, “meshuga”— crazy. We’ll be right back. And wait until you get a Hebrew understanding of covenant.

SID: You know, my wife is so fascinated by what you’re teaching. She’s saying, if you lived in Charlotte, she’d go to lunch once a week with you. But what about mutations? Isn’t that a way of creating new types of species and things?

BRUCE: Well everybody hears about mutations. But mutations destroy information. And DNA, what creates our body is this code, and it’s like randomly changing the letters in a book. It destroys the information. It won’t create a better book. It destroys information. Let me give an example. For about a hundred years, we’ve taken fruit flies, we put them in a chamber and we add radiation to the, X-rays, and they mutate, and the next generation has mutations. So we think by doing this with millions of fruit flies—

SID: What kind of mutations?

BRUCE: It’s changing the information on their DNA code. But what you get are fruit flies with different colors, fruit flies with twisted wings, fruit flies with different numbers of bristles, fruit flies with legs hanging out where their eyeballs ought to be. We’ve never gotten a new creature. We’ve never gotten a new organ. We’ve never gotten a new functioning feature. We’ve never gotten anything that’s useful. That experiment shows mutations don’t create new kind of creatures.

SID: So how come we’re taught this on TV?

BRUCE: Because if you don’t want to believe God did it, you just have to make up a story. You got to come up with some way to explain where new information comes from. So they grabbed mutations and they ran with it.

SID: Okay. Grand Canyon. Magnificent. Millions of years in the making. You say different.

BRUCE: The key event in the Bible to explain the world and the way it looks is a worldwide flood. This flood was real. This entire globe was resurfaced. There would have been rapid movement of the continents. As the continents shoved together, it shoved up the mountain chains almost a year after that flood started. The water rushed off the surfaces of this newly laid down sediment and rock layers that were filled with fossils. That’s where they came from. That’s how it fits into the Bible. Well as this water was rushing away it carved out the Grand Canyon very, very rapidly.

SID: Give me an example as a scientist of this happening rapidly, that you know of.

BRUCE: Well there’s a very modern example. In Washington State, in 1980, Mt. St. Helen’s blew up. It was a volcano where the whole top of the mountain slid down into the valley. Trillions of pounds of sediment were instantly pulverized and turned into a fluid that flowed down into the valley. When it happened, it laid down new layers of rock up to 600 foot deep. Later, water backed up. Months later, it flushed through this area of this newly formed rock, layered as it flowed as a liquid, and we see these perfectly horizontal seams of sediment formed in a matter of minutes into this layer. It shows how the layers of the earth formed. Not over millions of years, but very rapidly during this world restructuring flood.

SID: Okay. You talk about a flood because the Bible talks about a flood. But certainly there would be records of this flood in different cultures all over.

BRUCE: Well and that’s exactly what we find. I mean, you can go on the Internet and you can Google flood stories, you’ll come up with websites that list hundreds of cultures that have a remembrance that there really was a flood upon this planet.

SID: How about Native Americans? Tell me what you found out.

BRUCE: Well I found just a phenomenal record from the Delaware Indians. They’re one of the earliest American Indian tribes that migrated through Alaska down across Canada, and then spread out across the United States. They have a record of where they believe everything came from that exactly parallels the biblical account of creation. The Great Spirit hovered over the waters and then he made mankind, and the evil came into mankind and distorted things, and deceived mankind. But then they talk about a world covering deluge that came and destroyed the entire globe. This isn’t the Bible. This is a totally separate culture from the Bible. Now see, all people spread out across this globe after this flood. The Egyptians, the Chinese, the Incas, the American Indians, they spread out after the flood. But they took with them a remembrance of this flood, and that’s exactly what we find.

SID: Tell me about the seashells.

BRUCE: We find seashells at the top of Mt. Everest. Mt. Everest is 28,000 feet above sea level, and yet there are fossilized seashells that high above sea level. The reason they’re there is because those mountains were pushed up at the end of Noah’s flood and they contained all of these dead creatures that have been compacted into new rock layers formed during this flood.

SID: The Bible talks about, in addition to giving evidence as to how things were created, because the evidence is from the Creator. It talks about in the last days there will be scoffers that won’t believe what God says.

BRUCE: You’re referring to 2 Peter 3, Verse 3, it says, “In the last days, scoffers will come, saying everything is continued as it has since our fathers fell asleep.” In other words, slow, gradual processes explain everything. That’s the days we live in today. We are living in what the Bible calls last days. And then it says, “These scoffers will specifically say, there was never creation out of water,” a reference to God created everything as He hovered over the waters of the deep and there has never been an earth flooded by water. The two signs in the last days will be a denial of creation and a denial of a worldwide flood. That’s exactly what the academic community is doing to all over our children as we send them through the public education system.

SID: But God says, in the last days, He’ll give us a sign. It will be like the “days of Noah”. What do you believe he meant?

BRUCE: Well Jesus said these words. He said, “It will be as in the days of Noah before I return.” There was a monument to a coming judgment called “Noah’s Ark” towering above all mankind in the days of Noah. I believe we are very close to finding Noah’s ark locked in ice at the top of Mt. Ararat, a boat big enough to put every species of mammal, bird and amphibian in that boat, locked at the top of one of the highest mountains on this planet. What better sign could there be that these rock layers are not very, very old. They were laid down by this flood only about 4500 years ago.

SID: And according to information that I have and that you’ve seen, we’re about ready to see that. There’s so many sightings.

BRUCE: There have been sightings from the early 1900s on up, and we now have satellites that can see through ice, that have seen an object in that ice that looks very much like Noah’s ark.

SID: But how could the ark, I often wonder, how could the ark hold so many animals?

BRUCE: Well the better question is, why is there a boat that big locked on top of this mountain, you know 14,000 feet above sea level? It’s big enough to hold every species of mammal, every species of bird, every species of amphibian that’s ever been alive on this planet in only about half the space of the ark.

SID: If it was ready to rain and God told you a flood was coming, would you get in an ark? Would you build an ark? I would. You would. The ark has already come. The ark has a name. His name is Jesus.

BRUCE: Amen.

SID: You’re either in Jesus or out of him. Choose this day who you will serve. But as for me and my house, we’re going serve the Living God. Make Jesus your Messiah and Lord. You repent and the life of God will touch your spirit and it will become alive to God. And God says a miracle will happen. He will remember your sins no more and you will be able to communicate with the Living God. You will hear His voice. This is what you need now.

Sid: I’m going to tell you something, if you had been in the environment I was in and you were not red hot for the Messiah I think you’d be dead. I did not expect it, but we’re doing this broadcast a month after the fact, but literally I just off a plane as I’m recording this right now from Israel. I was there for Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles. I was invited by representatives from just about all the Messianic Jewish Congregations in Israel to speak at an event of all things it was a New Age festival. Thousands of Jewish people gathered right by the Sea of Galilee. I’ve never seen so many witches, and kabbalist, and Satanist, and just a hedonist, and just so many perverse things in my life. I brought a team with me of men and women that move in extraordinary power of God, and I have one of the team members, Rabbi Michael Zeitler; who is rabbi of a Messianic Jewish congregation in Kingston, New York, Baruch HaShem; which is Hebrew for Bless His Name. Michael, give me some of your impressions of what you saw in Israel with me.

Michael: The setting was absolutely gorgeous on the Kinneret on the Galilee. Of course the weather was beautiful except that one day that we had rain. As I looked around the hedonism that was expressed by these young adults and older teenagers was phenomenal. As we walked around together and just explored what was being offered the attire the people were wearing, the various different offerings that were being given to these young people such as kabbalism, witchcraft, and Hinduism, and every other kind of “ism,” every other kind of New Age thing you could think of was offered there. It just seemed to be a total air in the environment of freedom for the occult, freedom for New Age, freedom for lust; I mean the women the way they were dressed was practically with nothing. It just seemed to be all out chaos, and yet it also from what my observation was, was that there was a controlling force behind this whole thing which I believe were the head kabbalist that were trying to steer or recruit these young people into something that they wanted to involve them in.

Sid: I was asked to go and speak 2 times, which I did. In fact, when I spoke you walked up to one of the young people. These confused kids that are into all the things the Torah condemns. Tell me about that.

Michael: Well it was a woman that was probably in her maybe early 20’s. I had asked her if she had prayed the prayer with you, and she said that she was afraid. So I had the pleasure of being able to explain to her, and she spoke English plus there was a translator next to me, and explained the gospel and what it meant, what it meant to repent of sin, what was going on in her life. Then I asked her “Would you like to have the God of Israel, would you like to have Mashiach in your life? Yeshu is His name” and she said “Yes I want that.” So she prayed with me, she accepted the Lord; I saw a big smile on her face after she was completed as a completed Jewish believer in Mashiach. Then I said “Now God’s going to bring a family of believers around you and He’s going to embrace you and nurture you and help you to grow.” It turned the translator was a believer and I didn’t know. So I said “Now see here’s one for you right now, and can we get her a Bible” and they went and got her a Bible. They were following up with her and encouraging her and helping her. So there the Lord just took care of it right at the tent.

Sid: You know Michael I was astounded at all the team members that were moving in such supernatural power. You know if God didn’t show up in power the devil certainly wasn’t holding back on his power. Tell me a couple of people that you personally, a couple of Jewish people you personally prayed with and what happened.

Michael: Well we were in a group praying and there was an unsaved Jewish family. At one point and time the Lord led to pray for a specific area on this gentleman’s lower part of his abdomen over by his chest in the back. Afterwards we asked “What was the reason for that?” his daughter pointed out that that was an area of his ribs that he had injured. This was a sore area for him and God knew and God was healing it. Then a short time after that…

Sid: The thing that was so unusual is you didn’t know to pray in that area except… How did you know to pray for this unsaved Jewish man in that area of his body?

Michael: I just sensed that the Lord was directing me almost like it was a hotspot, you know, and put your hand right there in that spot and just pray.

Sid: Well you know not only was he healed Mishpochah, when I was speaking and I told you all these things were going on… Michael have you ever spoken in an environment like I was speaking in?

Michael: No!

Sid: You hope you never do I think. Anyway it was an experience. As I’m speaking a one beautiful young Israeli I just kind of catch her eye, and I didn’t realize God was doing something. So I started talking to her and then all of a sudden a word of knowledge came, I spoke the word of knowledge and hers was the first hand that was raised and she was healed. I said… and I didn’t even realize it at the time “Did you notice me looking at you just before you were healed? God picked you out, God healed you.” I loved it! Tell me someone that was healed.

Michael: That same family there was an older aunt. She was walking away and as she was walking away I thought she was leaving and the Lord had spoken to my heart about her shoulder in a word of knowledge. So she was walking away and I figured “Well it’s too late now” and the Lord said “Michael be obedient.” So I went up to her and I said “Excuse me, can I pray for your shoulder? Have you had problems with your shoulder?” She said “Yes, yes.” So to make a long story short I asked the Lord if He would a brand new rotator cuff in her shoulder, and he did. She was swinging her arm like a windmill, and praising God, even though she was unsaved, to the Lord because of the fact that her shoulder was healed. Thanking God that her shoulder was healed and she had all arthritis, bursitis, whatever you want to call it, God gave her a brand new shoulder. There was also another thing Sid that was extremely dark, extremely demonic that took place on Wednesday night which we weren’t even aware it was going to be happening. They had these huge boulders around in a circle, and a smaller group of rocks that were in an area to make a fire for. At one point in time as we were out there ministering on this like main area, main pathway that went into the fair, and what was interesting was when we would say to someone, or you would say to someone because the Lord had showed you to do this first. “Do you speak English?” Then asking them if you could ask them a question, and specifically have they ever seen miracles, do they believe in miracles, and opening up the door to talk to them about the miracle service that would be coming. The interesting thing was, that when this celebration, or ceremony took place, and it was a truly dark pagan ceremony, with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these young people all around this rock area in a circle and drums just continuously beating and chanting and all kinds of things going on all at the same time. While all that was going on, at the same time we were out a little bit further away and people were coming to know the Lord. Young adults were being drawn supernaturally by God to come away from the fire circle as I call it, and to come away from this pagan celebration of darkness to come into the light to hear about Yeshua and to hear about miracles. They were coming to accept Him even during all that was going on at the same time, with the drumming and all the paganistic things that were happening.

Sid: There was one man who comes to mind who walked up to me. He wanted to sell me on a New Age meditation course so he hands me his brochure, and I’m thinking to myself “There’s no way this guy’s going to accept the Lord.” I started talking and God opened his heart and he came to the Lord. You know it’s not by man’s might or man’s power, but it’s only by the Spirit of God.

Michael: Yes, hallelujah.

Sid: I tell you this is the set time, yea the set time in which God is removing the spiritual scales from the eyes of Jewish people. Simultaneously because it says in Romans 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy” simultaneously He’s removing the spiritual scales from the eyes of Gentile Christians. This is God’s time to reach the Jew and God has given me a strategy and understanding of the next… the greatest and perhaps the last move of God’s move on planet earth and so many Christians do not have a clue. You must understand the Jew, you must understand Israel, you must understand the heart of God at this moment. There is a mandate in the heavenlies that Christian and Jews must have the middle wall of separation come down between the two of us and unite to become the One New Man, the true body of Messiah.

Sid: My guest Bob Larson has devoted his life to understanding world religions and alternative spirituality.   I asked him a question before we went on the air and I was actually shocked Bob Larson over your answer. And the question was “Did you hire researchers to research all of these 100’s of religions that you have in this brand new book of yours and what did you say to me?”

Bob:  No I’ve done all the research on it, I probably  have the most voluminous library of any Christian in the country; personal library on cult, occult and all sorts of spiritual phenomena.  I just made it a point to collect of this through the years I’m sitting here right now and I could just walk over and pick up the biggest Free Mason Bible you ever found. (Laughing)

Sid: Well, let’s talk about that. What is wrong; I mean most people have a relative who’s a Mason. I had an uncle who was a Mason and he tried so hard to get me in and I’m so glad I didn’t go into it.  What was I spared?

Bob:  Well, first of all it is a religion though they claim not to be a religion but it’s a godless religion and in fact it’s a Luciferian religion.  In American Free Masonry particularly Scot…

Sid: But wait a second if you talk to the average Mason they’ll say you’re off your rocker because they never heard anything about Lucifer the devil in their religion.  Isn’t it true that you have to get high up before you realize the source?

Bob:  Yes, you got to get 32^nd degree and higher before you’re going to know what’s going on. But Albert Pike who is the godfather of American Free Masonry was an avowed Luciferian and Satan worshiper. And he makes no bones about this and I’ve read his books; there’s a real danger though are the vows and the oaths spoke in secret even at the earliest enter apprenticeship degree.  So anybody who has gotten into the lodge has had to speak a death oath over their lives and swear fidelity to Free Mason Brothers above family members. And will not reveal to you what goes on in the lodge on penalty of death.

Sid: Now is there any connection between Mormonism and Masons?

Bob:  Oh absolutely. Joseph Smith, Jr. borrowed his whole religious concept from Free Masonry.  All the secret rituals in the Mormon temple were originally Free Mason rituals that’s why the Masons and the Mormons hate each other so much is because the Mason’s say “You stole our religion.”

Sid: But wait a second if Masons, which you explained so beautifully in your book, is Luciferian, Lucifer the devil are you saying that Mormonism teaches that too?

Bob:  It has for a number of years only because others like me have taken a stand against this have they changed some of the secret ceremonies in the Mormon temple and overtly taken Lucifer out of it. But he used to be there in all of the endowment ceremonies.

Sid: I’ll tell you Mishpochah you really need his book; where he talks about all of these different religions. Here’s a section on Zen Buddhism, a section of Christian Science; I’m just opening it at random.  Christian Science, a section on Karate? Wait a second their Christians that are involved in Karate Bob.

Bob:  Not all martial arts are evil, but the danger is that if you have the wrong teacher who has the wrong tradition they can lead you very subtly beyond the athletic and physical prowess aspects into other things and you need to know what the guidelines are before you get into it.

Sid: What about, and I was really shocked to see this in your book and maybe I should not have been, one of the categories you have is Native American Religion.

Bob: Well, Native American Religions involved in various forms and traditions self-mutilation and torture ceremonies to obtain spirituality. The use of drugs and hallucinogens to alter the consciousness, and on vision quest and other aspects of seeking spirituality looked for spirit guides.  So through totems, through animals, and through various forms or other worldly beings, most Indians end up with spirit guides. We have our new center in Arizona and we’ve had a number of people come over here from the Navaho reservations nearby and get deliverance from these animal spirits.

Sid:  Let’s talk a little bit about some of these metaphysical things that are so popular today they call them self-help courses, transcendental meditation doctors are recommending it to lower your blood pressure and your cholesterol. What’s wrong with TM?

Bob:  Well, first of all when you get into transcendental meditation you’re given a mantra the mantra often is the name of a Hindu god although because of public criticism they’ve gotten away from that somewhat.  You pay homage to the maharishi, to guru Dev his spiritual master and the other linage of eastern god man so you enter into a form of adultery.  And then by detaching yourself through the recitation of these mantras you really open yourself up for demonic invasion. I’ve done exorcisms and deliverances on scores and scores of people that have come out of TM. I did one one yesterday, not yesterday, but a couple of weeks ago on a man who was one  of the highest best known instructors in the entire TM movement.  Sid I wish you could have seen what happened when I placed a Bible on his forehead and said “In the Name of Christ I come against the psychic third eye of the seventh chakra in transcendental meditation.”  That guy flew out of his chair and he said “What in the world happened I just felt like an electric shock going through my body?”

Sid: Hmm.

Bob:  He was delivered from that but he didn’t understand what he had gotten into, it’s very dangerous.

Sid: You know what I find fascinating and I was actually looking at one of the categories in your book and it’s called because I knew what it was “Metropolitan Community Church” that’s the homosexual church.

Bob:  Yes.

Sid: But the history of it was fascinating, this guy started out as a real Christian just like Jim Jones started out as a real Christian.

Bob:  Yeah, oh yeah he was a Pentecostal Preacher.  In fact that’s one of the ways the church grew so rapidly in beginning is that it was so highly charismatic.  Of course the gay community loved the emotion charged nature of the services.  Now they branched off also into more liturgical gay congregations but the real seed of that… listen I have been in Metropolitan Community Church services that if you didn’t look around and see the drag queens you would think that you’re in the most spiritually charged charismatic church in town.

Sid: And you know what I have had, I hate to use the word, but I have debates with a Jewish homosexual friend of mine and they are so blind.  I show them the scripture and they don’t even respond. But at least in your book you put the apologetics of why they believe homosexuality is acceptable but they still don’t make any sense.

Bob:  Well it doesn’t but you still have to at least have to understand where they’re coming from. You know you can’t march down the street that says “Gays are going to Hell” that doesn’t get you anywhere. (Laughing)

Sid: Hmm, of all of the cults and occult groups that you’ve listed hundreds which one intrigues you the most?  I don’t know that that’s a fair question but…

Bob: I don’t know that if intrigue would be the right word but the ones that I think that I find the most deceptive and the most dangerous are the ones who cozy up to Christianity.  We’ve always talked about some of them.  The Free Masons, the Mormons, and of course the miracles I find it interesting how these groups the Church Universal in Triumphant.

Sid: How about Louis Farrakhan they mix the Bible with what they believe but what they believe is so diametrically opposed to the teachings of Jesus.

Bob: All of these groups borrow just enough from Christianity to make people who have some Christian background comfortable and then they overlay it with their own particular doctrine of demons but they don’t tell you that up front. I’m sure you know that groups like the Mormon Church and others specifically target lukewarm or former Christians.

Sid: Listen there is, and this is a new one for you, probably there are a group of traditional rabbis that go after Jewish people that have become believers in Jesus and their fulltime profession is talk them out of their faith because the say “These are the best potential Jews, they’re just misguided.”

Bob:  (Laughing) Well that’s the same philosophy the Mormon’s have; absolutely, the same way with the Jehovah Witnesses they don’t want absolute pagans they want people who know enough about Christianity to be dangerous but not enough to defend their faith.  And that’s why I wrote the book so that we can be ready as Peter said “To give an answer to everyone that asks the reason of the hope that is within us.”