Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Leif Hetland; I’m speaking to him at his office in Florence, Alabama and he is originally from Norway. God has baptized him with a baptism of love. And God has enough love to cover every single person that He has ever created on planet earth. Something is wrong; according to a survey done by Promise Keepers 6 of 10 men; these are mostly Christian men, are involved in pornography. According to studies I’ve seen the divorce rate is bad in Christian churches as it is in the world. There’s something wrong; Leif Hetland I happen to believe your description of the 3 chairs that I heard in your series “Father Loves You” gives us some answers.
Leif: Just to be able to describe I put 3 chairs up on the stage and then I point to each one of them. And I said that there’s 6.2 billion people in this world and that’s including you that are hearing. Everyone of our life are living out of these 3 chairs or we are moving between one or 2 chairs on a regular basis. I start with chair number 1 and it is the chair of commitment. Chair number 2 is the chair of compromise and chair number 3 is the chair of conflict. And chair number 1 the person is saved; and in chair number 2 they are also saved and in chair number 3 they are lost. If you are sitting or living your life out of a chair number 1 you are living in grace and grace is a keyword. Chair number 2 often you are living under the law and law is a tough marital partner even as a believer where you constantly have all the offertories that you need to do this; you need to do that. And no matter how good you try you will never be able to do enough. And what we have done is that we’re putting people on the performance treadmill of all these offertories. Try harder, achieve and the whole America Christianities enterprise have often ended up that we have offered an Ishmael instead of waiting on an Isaac because we’re running out of the wrong chair. And then chair number 3 that I will not focus that much on is the 1.2 billion Muslims; 600 million Buddhists; it is over a billion Hindu’s it quite a few other Jews that have still not had a revelation of Messiah.
Sid: But it’s coming soon; I can tell you that but go ahead.
Leif: And it is happening and that’s why we’re coming with this teaching and this revelation and we’re bring it to Israel and we’re bringing it to the nation for the people to be able to see and to experience all the passion and the power of a Father of love that is bringing His children home. So these chairs is just to be able to help people to be able to understand which chair you’re living your life out of. And what we have a tendency to do and I believe according to George Barna and you referred to some of his research he said “When it comes to the lost people.” And I refer to as chair number 3 and the people in church I call that chair number 2 they’re compromisers.” And he said “There is hardly any difference but he said that when it comes to behavior…” excuse me he said “When it comes to the the believer there is a big difference. But he said when it comes to behavior he said that it is hardly any different.” So what is happening is actually the church or we often as believers is becoming more like the world then they are able to see Jesus living His life in and through us. So chair number 1 the key thing is for Jesus to live His life in and through us then the Father is left with the honor and the glory and that can only happen through the Spirit filled life. But in chair number 2 you’re operating out of your soul; than means your emotion, will, mind and personality is what is in control. It is me against the enemy instead of Jesus against the enemy and the world sees something totally different. In chair number 1 the supernatural is what is natural. In chair number 2 as I say you will just continue to struggle and strive and as I was saying the natural is what you are going to see. And as a result of what we often done is we have watered down the word of God even if we we’re conservative we have believed the same but our experience level is far beyond what the Bible level is or what the Jesus level is. And the result is that now we have less expectation, less faith.
Sid: You know as you are sharing this what I’m thinking about there is a new phenomena in America and it’s called Seeker Sensitive Churches. It’s the fastest growing churches in America. And what they have done is that they’ve taken out the things that don’t work so they don’t have to explain why they’re not working and they’ve gone to the level of the people rather than the level of God.
Leif: Yeah and we’re seeing a trend there and…
Sid: And by the way I don’t see a whole lot of difference between what are called Charismatic Pentecostal type churches and seeker sensitive and I had to put my little commercial in there but go ahead.
Leif: I totally agree and I have the joy I have been ministering over 1000 churches in 40 some states; every denomination and I have followed this trend. And what I am seeing now and I am not against and I want anyone that is preaching Jesus and is seeing people getting saved if they have a different approach I’m very glad to it. But I see very clearly the Jesus way the New Testament way and I still believe that 9 out of 10 people in the world getting saved today. The only places that where there is a seeker friendly and places where it’s very affluent. But 9 out of 10 people being saved in the world today what you will see is the proclamation and demonstration of the gospel goes hand and hand. Meaning signs and wonders, miracles, healings is going together with the preaching and teaching of the gospel. I have never once been able to see one Muslim, one Jew, one Hindu during all my time of travel just true intellectual convincing these people in a seeker friendly way that my way is better than your way. But I have seen more 1000’s than I can count to to be able to say “When Jesus does what only He can do and He’s left with the honor and the glory through ordinary people I think that’s still what is working all over the world. And 9 out of 10 people saved in the world today is being saved. And sometimes they tell me “Oh you you’re seeking for the experience or why are you focused so much on signs, wonders and miracle or this love stuff…” or they love my love message but the other side of it. And that’s the dangerous…that’s part of the grace or the love message is that some people they stop there. But the whole purpose for the Father to bring us into a love and intimate relationship isn’t to remove a way that is not comfortable with love because that is not comfortable with Him and that is not comfortable with His Kingdom. And then He wants to do something instead of us living for God He wants us to live from God and He wants actually instead of us asking Him to bless what we are doing we start to do what He is blessing. And it is a totally new paradigm.
Sid: Now would you say that most people who hear very very infrequently from God that real Christians are in this chair too. What is it like when someone moves from chair 2 to chair 1 which you call the commitment chair.
Leif: Yeah, and let me first mention that when I talk about commitment it is not the comment to do doing but to being. It is a commitment to a relationship, it is a commitment to son ship and to every other ship that follows after that. So suddenly now as I can mention to that in just in the last week that came from Columbus Ohio a people that experienced that. First of all in chair number l you are hearing God’s voice clearly, “My sheep hears my voice”. In chair number 2 it can be God; it can be the devil and it can be the flesh; you are not sure it’s uncertainty. And deception is very deceiving; most people in chair number 2 think that they’re in chair number 1. In chair number 1 you always have a person hand encounter with God; there’s an open Heaven and you can always say His Kingdom come, His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Another thing is you think Heavenly thoughts down here on earth. But in chair number 2 as a thing you will continue to strive and you will continue to struggle. So a different; I am seeing is that first of all I see a major difference when it comes to the fruits of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit goes hand and hand. And that’s why I saw the balance between the passion and power you will see that reflected. And if you squeeze and bump into somebody in the chair number 1 and what’s going to come out of them is joy, peace, patience. If you squeeze somebody in chair number 2 you will start to see “Well, you preached too long or they criticize the sermon or the Norwegian accent then what is in them is going to come out. They start to defend themselves; they start to “You humiliated me.” And the question is “How can you humiliate someone that is humble.”
Sid: Hmm.
Leif: And in chair number 1 you are humble and grace is available to the humble.
Sid: Ah Leif we’re out of time will pick up her on tomorrow’s… oh on Monday’s broadcast; we’ll have Leif on all next week…
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth