SID: Dr. Hamon, you teach on the three greatest gifts that humanity has received. Explain.

BILL: Yes. Once a person realizes that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever would have everlasting life, so God’s gift to the world was his only begotten son. Out of all of his wisdom and resources the only way to redeem mankind was through the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. So he gave that gift. Then Jesus said, “I’ve come to do thy will, O Lord.” He came at the will of the Father, gave his life on the cross because he came to save sinners, because he had to have sinners to make saints. And so Jesus came and died on the cross, purchased the church with his blood, then he wanted to send his gift of the Holy Spirit back to the church to convert and convince, and to mature and equip the church with the gifts of the Spirit, and all of that. Then when Jesus went back he sent the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit wanted to give his gift to the individual believer. But he searched all of Heaven, all of God’s treasures, all that God had to offer in Heaven, and God had agreed the greatest and best gift he could possibly give the individual believer was your own spirit language, where God is a spirit and the worshiper must worship in spirit and truth. So when you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is your spirit language, that’s the gift, evangelicals get upset because they think we’re saying you don’t have the Holy Spirit until you talk in tongues. Now I was born of the Spirit, so I had the Holy Spirit, but I didn’t have the Holy Spirit’s gift. See, it’s a gift of the Holy Spirit, like the gift of God is eternal life. The gift of the Holy Spirit is your spirit language and that spirit language has many, many, many benefits that 90 percent of Christians don’t use.

SID: You know what I found that as you pray more and more in tongues, the Holy Spirit gives you more and more reasons and benefits.

BILL: Yes.

SID: Tell me the latest one he’s given you.

BILL: The latest one he gave me was that the speaking in tongues does the same thing for our spirit person as your heart does for your natural person. Your heart beats and puts blood throughout all your veins and that life-giving blood is what keeps you going. Well speaking in tongues floods and pumps the Holy Spirit presence throughout your whole spirit, soul and body. And Oral Roberts University did research and found that it increases your immunity system 35 percent.

SID: Imagine what my immune system would be if I prayed without ceasing, which is my goal. Give me just some bullet points, benefits of speaking in tongues.

BILL: There are so many. It activates the spirit of wisdom and revelation. It empowers you for ministry and so many benefits of healing of your brain and mind, builds your faith. The only two ways I know to build your faith is the Word of God and praying in tongues, and that’s proven. A psychiatrist received the gift in the charismatic movement. What praying in tongues does, he said, it clears out your subconscious and your spirit clears out your fears, your anxieties, your traumas, and loves and worships God, you can’t do it in the natural tongue. And you’ve got your own built-in psychiatrist. You don’t have to go crazy.

SID: Can I accomplish my full destiny that God has for me if I don’t pray in tongues?

BILL: It’s going to be pretty hard.

SID: I think it’s impossible. Science has revealed the benefits of praying in tongues.

BILL: It’s a language, so it is an intelligent language. It’s a language of the spirit. That’s the reason I call it your spirit language, because it is a language. Paul said if I pray in tongues in my spirit language, my spirit praise, but my mind is inactive. He says it’s inactive. And so they have tests in Penn University, and Dr. Newburgh there did some tests and they put these instruments on the frontal lobes of some people praying, evangelicals and nuns, and when they did this it really activated right here in your frontal lobe. And they gave it to a, put it on a Christian praying in tongues and it went blank, no activity. And that proves what Paul said. If I pray in tongues, my spirit prays, but my natural mind, my frontal lobe area is inactive, and they proved that scientifically.

SID: You me, the acid test is the results you see in people. I know I have prayed in Filipino language and led someone to know the Messiah. I don’t speak one word of the Filipino language. But get this, this doctor that I led to the Lord said, “You not only prayed in my language, did you know there’s over 20 different dialects in the Philippines? You prayed in my exact dialect.” Why do you call speaking in the supernatural language the father and mother of all gifts?

BILL: Oh my, thank you for asking that, because that’s so important. You know, so many people feel like the only time they’re supernatural is they’re healing or you see an angel, or you make a visit to Heaven. But I try to tell people, look, you’ve already experienced the two greatest miracles in the world. I mean, when God created the heavens and the earth that was a miracle. But when you receive born-again experience and God washes away all your sins and makes a new creation out of you, and that’s not just religious, you literally become a new creation in Christ. All things pass away, all things become new. That’s the father of all miracles, the born-again experience. Then the mother of all miracles is what James said, “No man can tame the tongue, but God can.” So when you receive your spirit language and God tames your tongue and speaks a language through it, that’s the mother of all miracles. And really, I try to [unintelligible] and say, look, you’ve already experienced the father of all miracles and the mother miracles, you shouldn’t be, the rest are your kids. Your healing, your miracle, your fulfillment, financially, whatever the rest is, is small compared to that. So if you’ve got the faith you just got to exercise it.

SID: All right, I am ready, I know you’re ready to have a million volts of power surge through your body and help you achieve your destiny. We’ll be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is considered by many the father of the modern day prophetic movement, and I found out one of his secrets. He had an audience with Michael the archangel who instructed him strategies to win every battle. And I can tell you, I’m going to ask him on the air to do an amazing strategy that most people don’t know is in the Bible. And when he does this angels go on assignment. Do you know what it is? It’s the shout! Dr. Bill Hammond, you have been a general of the prophetic for some six decades. You were about 16 years old, you became a believer and then you went to church and you had quite an encounter with the Holy Spirit. Tell me about it.

BILL: Well it wasn’t really a church. It was Russian Armenia [unintelligible].

SID: I’ve read about Russian Armenia. What is that?

BILL: Russian Armenia, there was no electricity out there and you go out there, and you cut down some little saplings, and they put them around there, put the brush over the top, hang kerosene lanterns up.

SID: That’s good for Daniel Boone. I like electricity.

BILL: And they put bridge boards across the blocks and some saw dust down by the altar there. You’ve heard about going down the Old Sawdust Trail?

SID: Yes.

BILL: That’s what that is. Well I went down there to the Old Sawdust Trail and that’s where that bridge work was done. And I had never been in church in my life. I didn’t know anything about God or anything, but I saw a vision of Jesus hanging on the cross and he looked at me and he said, “I died for you, will you live for me?” All this time I’m seeing this in the Spirit and pretty soon a little brother comes and starts pushing me on the shoulder and says, “Yes, that’s it, brother, that’s it.” I’m wondering in my natural mind, what is he talking about. He said, “Just turn loose.” So I turned loose to the altar. Then he said, “Hang on [unintelligible].” Then he said, “Just talk it out. The Lord said talk.” I listened to myself and I was talking a language that wasn’t Oklahoman lingo. You know, it wasn’t English, and I spoke in tongues for about 45 minutes, and that was in 1950, and I’ve been doing it now for 67 years.

SID: Well a few years later you’re in a Bible school and all of a sudden God spoke to you and you had a four-hour experience with God. What happened?

BILL: I went from Portland down to Salem to preach at night and after the preaching we all went to the altar and started praying. And all of a sudden the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, “Get comfortable. I’ve got something new for you.” So I crossed my legs like an old Indian chief, and I’m real comfortable, and for the next four hours, I’ll use modern terminology from computers today that they didn’t have then. But it was in modern terminology, my spirit uploaded to God and God’s Spirit downloaded to me. I would speak for about five minutes in a more Spanish or Italian, or French language, and it would go appealing, requesting, I’d go [speaking in tongues]. It would go about five minutes then stop just like that. Then I’d switch and God would download again, and it would be in a German, Russian type language. [speaking in tongues]. I could sense what I was saying, but I didn’t understand it. You could sense what people are talking and hear us, and he was instructing me. And that went on off and on about five minutes for four hours. Three months later, the Bible College split right down the middle, five teachers left. All these students were very confused, they didn’t know what to do. And I was praying, seeking God, and God told me, he said, “Bill, don’t worry about it. I’ll put it in modern terminology. While you prayed for four hours, I pre-programmed your spirit and your mind. You cannot fail. You won’t make the wrong decision. I’ve already pre-programmed you. You just go with the flow. I’m going to direct. I’ll call circumstances and providential [unintelligible] and you’ll be moved right into my time and purpose. You are already pre-programmed. You can’t miss it.

SID: I like that. How about you? You’re pre-programmed and can’t miss it. Another thing you said interested me. Right from the get-go you were speaking more than one language.

BILL: Yes.

SID: Whereas most believers that speak in supernatural languages, they stay with one language their whole life.

BILL: I have a language when I go to warfare that I will speak, and I’m just talking to God, I’m talking another language, when I’m interceding, another language, when I’m worshiping, another language.

SID: I’m intrigued with the angel, Archangel Michael. You had a private audience with him. How come I didn’t?

BILL: Well because of my calling to be, for the last 20 years I’ve led people in warfare to destroy the works of the devil. And in ’92 to 2001, I traveled all over the Pacific Rim nations, led them into warfare to stop the devil’s plans for World War III. So I was operating like a general and I’m with the Lord, and God gave me a four-point vision. I’ve had about five or six visions in my whole lifetime. I’m not a person to give in to [unintelligible]. I’m a more practical prophetic. But in this vision the Lord led me up this path. It seemed like I was out here watching all this happen. And the Lord came up and he says, “General Michael, this is one of my generals of the Army of the Saints on Earth.” Then he says, “General Hamon, this is General Michael, the head of my Army of Angels.” And he says, “You’re going to co-labor together to accomplish my work and destroy the powers of darkness and defeat the armies of wicked spirits.” I was out here just kind of watching, I was kind of from behind watching, and we were just talking like you and I would talk, strategizing, and going there, and he thought, and now I’m using those strategies around the world. The greatest corporate weapon that the church has is the shout of faith, and it goes off in the spirit realm like an atomic bomb does.

SID: Would you do me a favor?

BILL: Yes.

SID: Would you look in the camera and give a shout of faith. I want to see what it’s like.

BILL: What I do? Okay. Hallelujah! Amen.

SID: My goodness that was a shout. What’s going on in the spirit realm when you do that?

BILL: When we do that it’s what’s called prophetic acts of faith. When you do it here, see we fight, we’re a natural people, but we do a spiritual warfare, and we seated and [unintelligible]. But whatever we do here angels do in the spirit realm. We shout, they warfare, and they wait for our shout and for our obedience, and they do it. And so as we’re shouting, Michael told me, he said, “If you’re ever in trouble give a call and I’ll be right there.”

SID: Okay, Desert Storm, you did all this intercession as Michael taught you. What were the results?

BILL: We can cancel anything the devil plans. We the church can cancel and stop it. He told me, he said, “You’ve won the war. You’ve confused the situation [unintelligible] and there’s not going to be a third world war now.

SID: Okay, now when we come back, how would you like to hear scientific evidence of the value in speaking in supernatural languages? Be right back.

Is there a supernatural dimension, a world beyond the one we know? Is there life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? Sid Roth has spent over 35 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid for this edition of It’s Supernatural.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, the only word I can use, has the most ferocious faith for miracles that you’ve ever seen. Let me give you an example. She goes through an AIDS hospice. That’s where people are going to die from AIDS. She goes in a room where they have hours to live. She lays her hand on the first AIDS patient, hours to live now. This guy jumps up out of the bed and walks out. The nurse comes back and says, “Where did he go”? Becky, you do not look so ferocious. She is. But I’ve got to find out how it happened. How did you get from being normal to be normal according to the Bible?

BECKY: Well Sid, it started out with a personal deep desire in my heart and a prayer one day. I saw that the prophets and the disciples had a different level of faith than I had. They had a different level of intimacy with God that caused them to walk in naturally in the supernatural. Now I saw miracles happening in my life, but they were sporadic. But what I saw with the prophets and the disciples in God’s Word was it was a lifestyle. And I said, Holy Spirit, teach me how to have this type of an intimate relationship with you that they have and teach me how to walk in the power of your spirit like they did. That’s how it started.

SID: You were at a conference in Nigeria and that’s really where God got a hold of you. Tell me about it.

BECKY: He did. It was about 16 years ago and I went to Nigeria for one week with three other people and we were holding together a healing conference. And that night when I got to my hotel room I was asking, “I need to know what’s going on here because I can’t stop weeping.” And he told me, he said, “When you get back to Guatemala, when you get home there I want you to start studying healing and I don’t want you to study anything else until I tell you to. It’s now time for this part of your ministry,” meaning healing, “to start.” And so I obeyed him. I got home and I started reading the scriptures from Genesis all the way through Revelation and everything I saw about healing I had a notebook with me and I had my Bible, and I’d write to the Holy Spirit, I’d put the date on it, the day and the time where I was, and I’d say, “Dear Holy Spirit, teach me.” And he would reveal things to me that I hadn’t seen even though I was studying and studying it, and it ended up being a two-year study for that part. Then he had me go on a 40-day fast, and I’ll be honest with you, I had never gone on a 40-day fast. Three-day fast and I thought they were hard. But a 40-day fast and it was strict fast. It was water.

SID: Water, just for 40 days?

BECKY: Yes. So at the same time I’m going on this 40-day fast he instructs me to read from Genesis through Revelation. And so I finished this fast, and it was a glorious fast. I mean it was hard on the flesh, I’ll be honest with you, but I obeyed because I tell you what, no matter how hard it was physically, the supernatural side of it was glorious. And then he gave me a time of rest and he said, “Do it again.”

SID: Three times in one year, 40-day fasts?

BECKY: Yes.

SID: Studying the scriptures for two years. So when it was over, she went to an AIDS hospice where they were dying, hours to live. You went into one room. What happened?

BECKY: I walked into the AIDS hospice one afternoon and I said to the nurse, I said, “Hi, Luis, how is everybody doing?” Obviously, this is all in Spanish. But I said, “How is everybody doing?” And he said, “Sister Becky, they’re not doing well today.” And I said, “What’s wrong?” I mean, I’m in an AIDS hospice. Everything is going wrong and I’m thinking, “What’s wrong now?” And he said, “In this room over here there’s two men and they’ll be gone within two hours. You need to go pray with them, Sister Becky.” And I said, “Okay.” And I knew in my spirit what he was requesting of me, he didn’t believe anything was going to happen. But you know what, that didn’t matter. I was on an assignment with God, with the Holy Spirit. And so he walked me into this room and there was these two single beds, one man in this bed and the other man in that bed. They were both in comas. Their eyes were fixed on the ceiling and so I go over to the first bed and I’m looking down in the man’s eyes, and they’re fixed on the ceiling. And I said to him, I said, “Hi, my name is Becky and I’m a missionary, and I believe in healing.” And some people think it’s odd that I would talk to them, but I have learned that the spirit does not go into a coma, only the physical body does. I read two scriptures to the man. I read from Isaiah 53:4-5, that said, “By his stripes we are healed” and then I went into Galatians 3:13, where it talks about Jesus becoming a curse, to undo the curse. You know, that took me maybe three minutes and I said, “I’m going to pray for you now.” And I saw the man’s eye twitch. And I said, “I just saw your eye twitch. I’m going to take that as you’re saying yes.” So I laid my hands on him, and this is what I teach people, I teach them how to do this. And I said, “In Jesus’ name, I renounce the spirit of death and I release the spirit of life. I renounce the HIV and every other disease that’s killing your body. Right now in Jesus’ name, be healed.” And you know what happened? Do you want to know happened?

SID: Of course I do. I even know what happened.

BECKY: The man instantly jumped out of his bed and he was jumping up and down, and in Spanish he’s saying, “I’m healed! I’m healed! I’m healed!”

SID: A young African-American boy tried to kill an elderly white woman, hurt her, I mean, horribly. Tell me that story, Kynan.

KYNAN: It’s a very powerful story, Sid. This young man is sort of a menace and doesn’t have a father figure in his life, and so he resorts to a life of crime, violence, robbing, stealing, etc. And he happens to victimize this woman and he hurt her really bad, and of course, he want to prison. He was convicted and went to prison. But the amazing part of the story is the response of the woman. She forgave him, not only that, but she began to correspond with him in prison and to bless him and tell him, you know what, you can start over again, you can have a better life. I mean, isn’t that amazing. When he gets out of prison they meet for the first person since the event and they embrace one another. And he says, “You know what, you changed my life because when you forgave me I realized that that wasn’t who I am. That wasn’t who I was created to be. God had a bigger purpose for me in life.” And now this man is reintroduced back into society and he’s going to do great things. But what would have happened if she didn’t forgive him? Now I’m not saying it’s easy to forgive.

SID: If she hadn’t, I bet he would have gone into society and done even worse.

KYNAN: Yes because he was in the prison of her unforgiveness. That’s what happens. When we hold on to offenses we hold people hostage, and guess what, we have to be the prison guard. So we’re right there with them while they’re in prison. Neither one of us is going anywhere.

SID: We’re both in prison.

KYNAN: We’re both in prison.

SID: I mean, it’s time to be free. When you understand the repercussions of what happened, when you lend yourself to do these unbiblical things, you said every believer, every church needs an ICU unit.

KYNAN: That’s right, intensive care unit. Every believer, every hospital, every good hospital has an intensive care unit, and this is where the worse cases go. This is where the most traumatized, the most debilitated, the most wounded people go and they have specialists that can administer care to these people. It’s usually a separate part from the other part of the hospital. Every church, every family, every believer needs an ICU. In other words, we need to understand that many times when people hurt or offend us it’s because they’re wounded. When you’re wounded you’re prone to attack. When you’re hurt you’re prone to hurt and that’s why we need an ICU, a place where people can heal. You know, there are people watching even right now, Sid, that believe, I don’t belong in the church. I don’t belong in this family. I’m too damaged. There is nothing that can be done for me. But I want people to understand that the Holy Spirit is the chief of the ICU and he can heal the most wounded person. He can restore the most broken. He can literally rehabilitate the fallen if we will allow him to.

SID: You have a term you use: grace space. Explain.

KYNAN: We have to have a grace space as believers. Don’t automatically come to a conclusion about someone. Don’t automatically accept a narrative. Don’t automatically.

SID: The truth is we don’t have all of the facts. There’s only person that has all the facts, that’s God.

KYNAN: That’s right.

SID: Tell me that story, very poignant, about that wise grandfather.

KYNAN: The wise grandfather, you know, it’s so funny. I love this story. Two little girls are playing and they have the crayons and everything. And one of the little girls, the granddaughter, breaks the crayon in half. And so she goes to the grandfather and says, “Granddad, I broke my crayon. I’m so upset.” And he takes the crayon. He’s a wise grandfather. He takes the crayon and takes a piece of paper and he begins to draw with the crayon and he shows her and says, “Listen sweetie, broken crayons still color”. And there are people, if I can just speak to the audience, there are some people, you have been broken, you have been wounded by the church, you have been wounded by your family, you’ve been wounded by those in authority and you need to know that you are not damaged goods. Broken crayons still color. We forget the fact that he is the potter and cannot the potter heal the clay. Cannot he restore the clay? Cannot he make you the way he wants you to be? Receive him even now.

SID: Jesus said a very penetrating question, “Will you be made whole?”

KYNAN: That’s right.

SID: Comment on that.

KYNAN: You know, a lot of people are broken. I counsel and it’s so funny because sometimes we can be so engulfed in our brokenness that we don’t understand that that’s not what God wants us to be. And when Jesus went to the pool of Bethesda, a place of healing, everybody was waiting to get in the water. This man had been there for 38 years and Jesus asked him, he said, “Will you be made whole today?” Then his next words were very powerful. He said, “Rise. Take up your bed and walk.” I believe it’s time for people to rise up out of their pain, rise up out of their offense, take up their bed and walk in their purpose. This is what God is calling us to do in this hour.

SID: I want you to charge people to do that right now.

KYNAN: You know, you’re listening to me right now, you say, I hear what you’re saying, I know it’s scriptural, but I can’t. I’m too hurt, I’m too wounded. Do you know that I was wounded, too? I was broken, too, even as a pastor. One day in my room I’m sitting there and the Lord Jesus walked into my room and he laid his hands on my heart, and he gave me a new heart. He gave me a new compassion for people and I believe he wants to do the same for you right now. As you stretch your hands, Father, in Jesus’ name, I declare that everyone watching me and listening to my voice will receive the healing that you desire for them to experience. I charge you now to rise up, take up your bed and walk. You will not stay in a bed of offense. You will not stay in a bed of affliction. You will not stay in a place of stagnation, but you will rise up today and fulfill your purpose once and for all in Jesus’ name.

SID: Now you know the truth and I say to you the truth has made you free.

SID: Kynan, you have an analogy that really spells out how offense operates on us. It has to do with the dark alley.

KYNAN: Okay. So imagine people walking down a dark alley. It’s pitch black. You can’t see anything in front of you. And I remember being in an experience when I went to Africa one time. I couldn’t see anything. There were no generators, no nothing, no light. And so you’re walking down this dark path. You can’t see what you’re stumbling. In fact in this particular instance there was a black viper right by my foot. I didn’t even see it. The person behind me happened to step on it. And I believe that many people are stumbling in the dark. That’s what offense is like. The Bible calls it a snare. It’s actually a stumbling block. That’s what the word “offense” means. It means something that causes us to get trapped or stuck. So there are millions of believers, they don’t know why they are stumbling. They don’t know why, why am I not healed. Why can’t I have any joy? Why have I yet to fulfill my purpose? They’ve been saved 20 years and yet they’ve never fulfilled their calling. They are literally walking in the dark and they know what they’re stumbling at. The Bible tells us, it says, “He that hates his brother stumbles in darkness,” and he can’t see where he’s going. And so this is what the enemy wants. He wants us in darkness so that we can’t see our purpose. We can’t see where we’re going.

SID: We literally have an assassin that’s coming out to kill us, but we’re actually being used by that assassin and we don’t even realize it.

KYNAN: God gave me this analogy. Satan moved out of the church a long time ago and he hired hit men to do his bidding. Now who are his hit men? This is going to be very scary for some people. Believers, people who love God, people who are sincere in their walk, but are unknowingly assassinating others in the church, unknowingly assassinating others in their family, on their job, they don’t realize that they’re working for the enemy. But I believe, if I can do this, Sid, I want to release you from that contract. You’re fired. You’re not going to work for the enemy anymore. You’re going to work for the King of King and the Lord of Lords, not the accuser of the brethren, but the healer of the nations.

SID: Is there a vaccine, if you will, because I’ll take it. Now I don’t take a lot of vaccines for other reasons, but this vaccine I want for this virus. Is there?

KYNAN: There is a vaccine. You know, here’s what we have to do. First of all, we have to forgive. You see, God forgave us. The Bible says God, for Christ’s sake, forgave us. None of us deserve forgiveness. That’s why it’s called forgiveness. And we’re required to forgive people who don’t even acknowledge they’re wrong. And this is why, Sid. Forgiveness is not for them, it’s for you. It’s for you because you’re the one that is going to experience freedom. You’re the one that’s going to have peace.

SID: And not gossiping. It isn’t for them, it’s for you, but it destroys people. You know what, it works both ways.

KYNAN: It works both ways. And then we have to repent. This is the vaccine. We have to change our thinking. What if people understood that every time you said something about someone a dagger went into that person’s heart or a dagger went into someone’s heart. Many people would be convicted of mass murder because our words are like swords. This is what the scripture says. It says, “The talebearer, their words are like wounds going into the inward parts.” See, I want people to have a visual of this, Sid, and recognize what’s happening. Satan is the only one who gains from accusation. We gain nothing from it.

SID: Give me one other clue on this vaccine.

KYNAN: You have to avoid.

SID: Avoid?

KYNAN: Avoid

SID: Avoid what?

KYNAN: Avoid conversations that are demonic, conversations that don’t glorify God, conversations that don’t redeem. The Bible says in Romans 16, “Mark those which cause offense and avoid them.” Now what this means is I’m not saying cut off all your friends and all this kind of stuff, but what I’m saying is taking a stand. Now if you realize it’s your destiny depending on what you heard and what you said, you will be very protective of the words coming out of your mouth.

SID: That’s a mouthful. Your destiny. When we come back I’m going to have Kynan tell a true story about a young man that tried to kill a woman, went to prison and what happened. Unbelievable. We’ll be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest was taught the most supernatural prayer on Earth. Now millions of people are praying this prayer and this is what they’re experiencing. They hear God’s voice clearly. Their prayers are answered and their intimacy with God is off the charts. Do you want him to teach this to you? Well you know, the Gentile is supposed to provoke the Jew jealousy. You provoke me to jealousy. How does one family have 38 immediate family members in ministry? How is that possible?

CLEDDIE: Well it began with a miracle, Sid. There were people that were praying. I had an uncle that married into, my aunt married an uncle who was backslidden. I believe God moves through families. And so his brother was working on a road crew outside of Austin, Texas, and he got his arm in a rock crusher, and he pulled his arm off, pulled the shoulder blade off. And so they didn’t have the doctors. They didn’t have the medicine and the know-how back in the early 1940s, and so they prayed and God saved his life. And out of that one miracle our entire family was impacted because we had no question it was God. My family prayed. My mother was not a praying woman, but after that, my mother became a praying woman.

SID: You said to me that miracles are an evidence of a greater reality.

CLEDDIE: When God works a miracle, whatever kind of miracle it is, it’s an evidence of a greater reality and then we know that there is more beyond. There’s a supernatural.

SID: One miracle settles the argument, would you agree?

CLEDDIE: Oh, I agree with all my heart.

SID: But at 19 you didn’t feel that way. At 19, you were running from God.

CLEDDIE: I was like a lot of kids in Christian families. I didn’t make a commitment to Christ. I was in Tucson, Arizona, and I ended up one morning in a house, and I walked down the hallway to the bathroom, and I looked in the mirror, and God spoke to me, and he said, “What are you living for?” And at that point I knew I had no purpose in my life, but God gave me a purpose at that moment because my choice was to live for him, and I had faith in Christ as my savior at that moment.

SID: How about you? What are you living for? You’ve even seen the dead raised. Tell me about one.

CLEDDIE: I was over in England preaching in Sheffield, England. It was like probably the revival Bible days of Welsh, the Welsh revival. They were jammed. They were standing at the sides of the building. And I called a song leader, not a worship leader, a song leader, you remember those kind of song leaders. I called him up to pray over him, and when I did a spirit of prophecy came on me, and I said, “You’re going to minister. You’re going to lead worship to hundreds and hundreds of people. I see great crowds.” Well the guy died right under my hand.

SID: No! So they’d better not have a lot of rocks to throw at you.

CLEDDIE: I was in England. I could just see the newspaper the next day: “American Speaker/Preacher Kills the Song Leader in Church”. You know, they’re not really friendly over there in the newspapers. But what happened was at that time I called up some of the old-timers, actually the man that was had died under my hand, Smith Wigglesworth was his father-in-law’s best friend, and Smith Wigglesworth died at his father-in-law’s funeral. Mr. Richardson, he died at his funeral in Wakefield, England. And so I called up his wife, I called up C.L. Park’s wife, who was legendary, and I called up a surgery nurse to come and to check him. What took place was the pastor and I got down behind this big wooden pulpit. I was so thankful for that big wooden pulpit. It was as big as a battleship. I mean, I was never so appreciative not having a little transmitter. And I leaned over his corpse and I said, “Paul, he’s dead.” And he looked at him, and he said, “Nobody can see us.” And he said, “He was no minor. He’s clocked out.” In other words, he punched out and fell down. And we called the ladies up there and we prayed. And I wasn’t God’s man of faith and power. I was God’s man of paste and flour. I’m telling you, at that point I was really totally dependent on God, I mean totally dependent. And we prayed for him and God touched Mr. Park. God touched him, brought him back to life. The nurse was in shock because she had pronounced him dead. We took him over and set him a cane back chair. It was setting up against the wall and he sat there for the rest of the meeting just like this. I mean, he was totally just, it was like he was a stiff. He was alive and he was breathing, but I was never so thankful for an answered prayer.

SID: Okay. There is something that you teach that is so phenomenal and most believers go their whole life and they don’t even realize they’re in a spiritual battle. Comment on that.

CLEDDIE: You know, it’s like this. I tell people that they know they’re in spiritual warfare if they had jet lag and they hadn’t been anywhere. And so it’s like right now we see a lot of that in churches where people, they’ve been thinking, their minds have been working. How are we going to work this out? What’s going to happen in the future? Well I don’t preach to people’s heads. I preach to their hearts. I don’t preach to the church like she’s a widow. I preach to the church like she’s a bride. And so what changed my life was seeing the Kingdom of God differently because where there is a kingdom there has got to be a throne, and where there’s a throne there has to be a king, and where there’s a king there will be petition, and where there’s a king there will be worship, and that’s exactly what transformed my life is I came into the realization that God hears and answers prayer, but I came to him as the King of kings and the Lord of lords. I wasn’t a beggar, I was his son. I wasn’t an orphan, I was his child. I wasn’t defeated, I was victorious. And I’m thinking right that there’s a lot of people that come to God like he is a beggar. You don’t have to come to God another day like you’re a beggar. You’ve been adopted into the family of God. I have an adopted son and he is as much my son as our natural born daughter. And if you will begin to understand he wants you to pray and prayers that include his purpose in your life then your life can be transformed.

SID: So for you, prayer isn’t drudgery or religious, or routine. What is prayer?

CLEDDIE: Prayer is dialogue. Prayer is talking to my Father. Prayer is my Father talking to me.

SID: Okay. I am ready for him to release what God taught him as the single most supernatural prayer on Earth. I know you’re not going away.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is red hot for the Messiah her name is Mary Jo Clouse and I’m speaking to her at her home at Lake Mary, Florida.  And I have a copy of her most recently book called “Getting Free.”  And she’s a very popular speaker for the Charisma Woman’s Conference every year as I explained on yesterday’s broadcast because she has been doing it for at least 7 years now they come back and they say “Boy the teaching that you gave made has made such a revolutionary change in my life.” So Mary Jo I’d like to start out with some definitions.  Tell me how we can identify what the blessings are and how we can identify what the curses are especially the ones that passes on from generation to generation. But a lot of people don’t realize this but blessings pass on from generation also.

Mary Jo: Yes they do.   Well first of all I want to say that a blessing has been exalted which means being lifted up, walking in divine health that it reaches about every area of your life that your life touches others that it influences them and makes their life better.  Prosperity and that’s not just having a lot of money in your bank account but that’s prosperity of your spirit soul and body so that you are free from the judgmental critical spirit, your free of bitterness, your free of envy your free of strife and you’re just prospering in every area of your life your happy your having a good time you’re enjoying life, you’re walking in victory and you know that you have the favor of God in your life.  But a curse is like you reach a certain pinnacle of success and then it’s like the rug is come out from under you and here you go again you’re on a roller coaster humiliated and there’s failure in your life and maybe you’re not even able to have children, there’s bareness in your life.  You can have all kinds of barrenness in your life you can be barrenness as essentials and you also can be barren of the fact that you’re not able to love and give love. And I think that when you’re under a generational curse sometimes woman are frigid and they’re so needy that their marriages are not good because they’re trying to draw all of their life from their husband. And God says two whole people come together come together make a good marriage but two half people coming together do not make a whole you are two half people trying to find your identity in that person. And my identity is in Christ Jesus not in my husband not in someone else but it’s who Jesus Christ made me but it’s through Jesus Christ made from the very foundations of this earth.  And He knew me even before I was formed in my mother’s womb and that I was fearfully and I was fearfully and uniquely made and I was made in His likeness and His image.  And so that’s what I like to think that I’m under that blessing that I’m not divorced is not happening in my family and my children will not have to go through that pain that I went through of the divorce.  Because see I think that a lot of the reason I went through the divorce was because I got involved in the occult, I was rebellious toward my parents because one of the things that will bring a curse on you is because dishonoring your parents. And I think that yesterday on the program I gave the scripture Exodus 20:12 and that’s the one for honoring your parents that I gave it as the one that says “The sins of the father would be the 4^th generation and the blessings to the 1000’s.”  And that scripture is actually Exodus verses 5 and 6 where God wants to bring the blessing to the 1000^th generation. But most of us live under the curse because of something in our life that stops us from that breakthrough that God wants us to have with Him.  Actually when I repented I repented of dishonoring my parents from the things I even thought of things that I had said to them that seemed real cool at the time you know when I was a teenager but I thought “Oh God I’m sorry.” And my parents were still alive at that time and I asked God to forgive me of every rebellious act that I’ve ever been involved with and even attitudes that I had had toward them.  And it was real funny that I did that I went home to visit my parents in Arkansas and my little mom and dad were quite old at that time. And I they said “We want to apologize to you for the fact that we never had a car and we didn’t have the things that we have now and we couldn’t offer you those things and we see now that we messed up your life.” And I began to cry and I said “Mom you haven’t messed up my life you gave me love and you brought me up in a Christian home, you gave me the foundation that nobody else could give me. And I said “I love you and I’m really sorry for any rebellion or ever even leaving the church or anything that I was ever involved with that brought dishonor to you. And I really believe at that point that my health began to spring forth speedily because once that thing was broken like a heart problem after I repented the sins of my ancestors and I forgave my parents and forgave myself for being such a rebel.  And I was really not that of a person we all like to think we’re not as bad as we really were but I mean I always made a good living for my children and took good care of them but I just didn’t…I didn’t want to stay in the church that my mom and dad was in because there was a lot of legalism in the church a lot of no’s and not a lot of do’s.  So when my husband and I did start attending a church we attended an evangelical type church and I learned about the love of God and the acceptance of God.  And so after I had repented to them I could even feel even more relief like more bondages coming off of me and I felt light hearted and good.  And then another thing that will bring a curse on you is the elicit our natural sex up.  Young people listen to me don’t get involved sexually with your boyfriend save yourself for marriage. That’s why God created the marriage bed and blessed the marriage bed and said to marry and multiply and He didn’t say to us to commit sex before marriage and to get into all of the things that get into venereal diseases and HIV and all of the other things that come from unnatural sex. Only natural sex is in the marriage bed so I would say to you I would plead with you please keep yourself pure and holy before God because God’s laws work. And Leviticus 20 verse 10 through 21 it talks about not have elicit or unnatural sex. And another area that we get into and bring a curse on our life is the injustice to the weak and helpless. The Bible tells us in Exodus to keep yourself far from a false matter, do not kill the innocent and the righteous for I will not justify the wicked. And one of the things that we are doing in America today and many other countries is we are aborting babies. That baby is not just a fetus that is a life and that is a life that God the Father that has permitted you to bring into the world and to bring it up in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord.

Sid: So when you have seen woman and men that were involved in an abortion repent have you seen actual physical healings occur?

Mary Jo: Yes I have a lot of them get free of scoliosis; a lot of them get free of female problems. I had one young girl that I remember from down in south Florida that had had 2 abortions and it was her boyfriend who had helped her have the abortion.  She was full of guilt and fear and she’s having a lot of female problems she’s having just bleeding.  She’s had fibroid tumors prayed for that conference then broke the curse off of her. Saw her the next year and she said that she was totally healed she had no physical problems and that she had met a nice Christian boy. She rededicated her life at that time at the conference she met a Christian boy and they were engaged and going to get married.  The next year she came back to the conference and she was pregnant she was about 3 months pregnant she was so excited about what God had done in her life and say “Look at me, look at me I’m free I’m free, I’m free.”  And so yes there’s freedom when you break that curse.

Sid: Now when woman are involved in abortion are many of them sometimes even their ancestors are they barren and when that curse is broken they can have children?

Mary Jo: Yes.

Sid: Tell me one specific person.

Mary Jo: This lady was probably in her late 30’s and never had any children. We broke that curse and she asked the Lord to forgive her for having committed abortion and she repented of the sin she recognized that that was where the problem came in barrenness.  She repented of the sin and at that moment and at that…she actually walked out of the room when I had prayed for her and had to go to the ladies room and it was actually as if a DNC had actually been performed on her at that time.  Within that 3 week period after that she was pregnant and 9 months later we were in that area again and was there when the baby was born.

Sid: What kind of curses are involved in people that are always behind the 8 ball when it comes to finances they’re always broke.  I mean it seems as though …it’s almost like there’s a dark cloud is over them when it comes to finances.

Mary Jo: Well see a curse is when there is sufficient amount of money made and yet no matter how much money they make they never seem to make ends meet that’s the curse. Now there’s people that spend their money unwisely and throw their money away that’s not a curse that’s ignorance. But a curse is when God says “You will bring all of the tithe into the storehouse and prove Me with this Sid and see if I will not pour you out a blessing that you cannot contain. If you’re a tithe payer and you’re still not financially prosperous then I would say that you need to go back and ask yourself “Am I trusting in God or am I trusting in myself” because trusting in the arm of the flesh will bring a curse on you.  And a lot of people are under a financial curse because their daddy was poor his…you know every ancestor they ever had was poor or it was just poor managers of their money and they never learned to believe that God wants to bless them and yet God wants to pour out a blessing a lot more than we want it.  He is a God of blessing and not a God of cursing.  And He said “If you will bring all of the tithe in the storehouse and He will even open all of the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that you cannot contain.

Sid: Mary Jo I’m sorry were out of time.

Sid:  I have on the telephone a friend of mine that when you hear him sing because he is an anointed psalmist a Messianic Jew. When you hear him sing the Shekinah glory of God will come upon you. His name Paul Wilbur I’m speaking to him at his home in Jacksonville, Florida. Paul and I go back a long ways, in fact many many moons ago Paul was working for the Messianic Vision opening letters and your favorite thing, just to remind you Paul, was trying to see how many different ways people would spell my name. Do you remember that?

Paul:  I remember some of them even to the letter even today (laughing) amazing.

Sid:  (Laughing) Well what is amazing to me is it says not to despise small beginnings because wherever I flip on Christian television, or I listen to Christian radio you’re there.

Paul:  Hmm.

Sid:  This is your moment but it isn’t your moment it is God is doing something new. It’s like it’s in the atmosphere around the world and as a psalmist… the psalmists, the Levites go in front of the army of God and normally have a prophetic sense of what God wants. What does God want right now Paul Wilbur?

Paul:  Well I believe Sid and I hope it doesn’t sound too presumptive to say we speak for God although the Bible tells us that we as the sons of God can hear His voice. But I’m reminded of Isaiah chapter 2 I’m sure when Israel was asking the prophets what does God want. He says in Isaiah chapter 2 He says “Let’s go up to the mountain of the Lord to the house of the God of Jacob.” Now listen to this, “He will teach us His ways.” Now most people that I’ve heard that share that scripture Sid stop there but that’s not where God wants us to stop.  He says then the prophet goes on to say “So that we may walk in them.” I believe Sid that the Lord is looking His eye has always been searching to and fro. But I believe He’s looking for a called out people, a particular people those who are called by His name, those who have been to the mountain and not only are hearers of the word but are doers as well. I believe that’s what God is seeking for these days.

Sid:  Speaking of going to the mountain tell me about the song “Come Let’s Go Up To the Mountain.” This is on your new CD called the “Lion of Judah.”

Paul:  Well that was a CD that we produced this past feast of the Lord in Jerusalem itself called Pentecost or in Hebrew Shavuot the Feast of Weeks. We went there again with just a wonderfully anointed team of musicians. The presence of God Sid… I know I say this every time we interview over a new recording but this time the band had to go on without me. As I stood on that platform downtown Jerusalem at the largest hall in all of Israel the Jerusalem Convention Center; I stopped singing, I stopped playing the weight of the glory of God so pressed on me. I stood there in a puddle of tears the band was looking at me like “What should we do (laughing)?” Because we were climbing the mountain of the Lord and just as God spoke to Moses “Take off your sandals for the place where you’re standing is holy ground.” We were standing in holy ground. The song is again from Isaiah chapter 2 “Come Let’s Go Up To the Mountain.” It is such a prophetic word for today as the people hear the words of this I encourage them to let those words soak in deep because it is from the lips of God Himself.

Excerpt: “Come Let’s Go Up To the Mountain”

Sid:  That was Paul Wilbur singing “Come Let’s Go Up To the Mountain.” It was actually done in Jerusalem before a live audience. Paul you said the kavod, that’s the Hebrew word for the glory of God came upon you. Describe that Glory.

Paul:  Well it’s something unless you’ve actually experienced it is difficult to describe except I would say this way Sid that it’s a disarming of the flesh. There’s weakening of the self and an acute awareness of the presence of God that makes, that makes your flesh man weak but makes your spirit man so strong. I was standing on the platform surrounded by wonderfully anointed musicians and as we were worshipping the Lord we weren’t recording a recording in particular. We weren’t performing a record but we came with the people of Israel to worship on that mountain that He has called His own. As I stood there several times I had to stop singing, I had to stop playing I was reduced almost to a puddle of tears because of the weight of the presence of God. I’d have my hands raised and they’d fall to my side. My knees would begin to get weak and begin to shake. I couldn’t sing, I couldn’t speak I’d stand back from the microphone waiting for the presence of God to lift so that my fleshly part of me, my soul, could continue but you know just enjoying that weight of His presence. Who wants to continue anyway? You just want that presence that Shekhi-nah that presence that glory of God to press in on you and the rest of the world.

Sid:  You were telling me before we went on the air about a close friend of mine who went on to be with the Lord, Ruth Ward Heflin. There was something that she taught that has always stuck with you tell me it.

Paul:  Well it was actually during the Feast of Tabernacles when we recorded “Jerusalem Arise” 2 years ago when I met Ruth Ward Heflin for the very first time. She said something to me that day and she has actually written it in her book about the glory. Her statement will always stick with me was moving into the glory of God, and she put it this way she said “You praise Him until the worship comes and you worship Him until the glory comes then you just stand in the glory.” That’s what we were doing during the recording of that “Lion of Judah.” The glory of came we stood in His glory… you know Sid we used to be so proud in our meetings with the anointing and thank God for the anointing but the glory goes beyond the anointing. We used to be so proud of how many people would come under the weight of the anointing or fall out in the spirit under the anointing but I believe the Lord is looking for those who will stand in His glory.

Sid:  How about you do you want to stand in His glory? There’s some of you that have gotten cold you were hot at one time but you’ve gotten cold. I’m going to give you a prescription order this CD called “Lion of Judah,” start playing it every morning or every evening and begin to press into God. See the anointing on this will destroy the yoke that’s stopping you from pushing further with God.

Sid: I have on the telephone Patti Perior and Patti moves in the miraculous and prophetic gifts and very very sensitive to the Holy Spirit. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Tommy Hicks who literally started a major revival in Argentina he had the name of the head of…Juan Peron he didn’t know who he was. He had that name and he went and prayed and a miracle took place there and the whole nation was opened up to him. And the anointing was so strong on him that when Patti met him for the first time there was like a haze or midst around him of the glory of God. And she couldn’t even make out his features and her brother was with her at the time and her brother said the same thing. And one day Tommy prayed for her because over a period of time she was getting so hungry for more of God, so hungry for the love of God he prayed for her and she received what he called “The baptism of love.” She’s been moving in areas that’s provoking me to jealousy the Lord reveals things to her before they happen. She operates in a deliverance ministry and there’s a discerning of spirits and prophetic anointing.  But Patti to me there’s nothing more exciting then knowing beforehand that something’s going to happen and then almost being like an actor on a stage acting out what God showed you would happen.

Patti: It is exciting the Lord has got an inner television set that He turns on when He wants to show us something very specific. Jesus said “The things that I see My Father do are the things I do.” I know one time I was preaching at the Hollywood Presbyterian Chapel they were having Friday night Charismatic meetings and a young lady came up on stage and she was about 4’11 and very thin emaciated looking very depressed.  She came up for prayer and the Holy Spirit showed me that she had spirits of suicide and violence.

Sid: When the Holy Spirit shows you that is it like a thought how does He operate with you.

Patti: Well with me it’s more it’s kind of a combination but as time has gone on it’s kind of a picture now. Early on it used to me more facts implanted within me that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would be perhaps words like a thought but they were absolutely fact that I knew that gave me the courage or the boldness to say exactly what I heard. And I would say what the Spirit would say rather than what the person would say because sometimes people don’t want to confess the real root to the problem.  Well this young lady came up and I got the word suicide and violence. I closed my eyes and I reached out to pray for her and with my eyes closed she had jumped in the air like an animal to attack me.  I had 4 catchers that worked on stage to catch people when they would go down in the power. They caught her in mid air and I began to come against…they had to pin her down because she was so violent. They held her down and I came against a demon spirit of violence, of suicide and bound those and cast them out. And then she just laid their limp for a while after she had just been (heavy sigh) writhing around. And then when she got up she was like a sweet, meek little darling lamb and she came and gave me the biggest hug instead of attacking me now she’s hugging me. She…one of my lady’s in the staff walked her down and she wanted to go to the ladies room. She rolled up her pants and took off her shoes, she had tried to commit suicide 13 times and had cut crosses in her thighs.  And she swore she had 13 scars of crosses, she had even tried to murder her mother but now when she looked the crosses disappeared from her thigh. And it gave me…how they told me the story how God removed the scars of the pain of the past when we come to Him. Although sometimes the scars on our souls are deeper deeper than any scars on our body, but it gave me such a visual she showed me later knowledge of what God can do in just removing not only the inner pain of sickness an disease but the pain in people’s heart. And what I felt the Holy Spirit wanted me to mention there’s such violence in our young people today there’s spirits of violence.

Sid: But if you just watch the cartoons on television you see the spirit of violence even in the cartoons.

Patti: Yes.

Sid: And so the children are starting at a young age into this violence.

Patti: And so much of it they get attention they think if I act in a certain way of power thrust I’ll get attention, I will be something…people will pay attention to me because children are lonely. There are so many unfortunate children because of separated homes and God wants to reach out and God wants us to pour out the love and care of Jesus upon these children.   And for even parents to be alert you see violent reaction begin in prayer to bind spirits of violence, spirits of murder and spirits of death because it’s very prevalent in our world today. But God is working great miracles today and a wonderful thing happened it was soon after 2½ – 3 years ago an Iranian doctor rather he was a dentist had such a excruciating pain in his back.  He was scheduled for surgery and he was not a believer he said “He believed in nothing.” And he had a 16 year old son who was backslidden not 16 years old he had a son that was backslidden for 16 years. The doctor was scheduled for surgery on Wednesday so at a last resort the son said “I remember Patti’s ministry years ago as a last resort I’m going to take my father. So he brought his father who was in such excruciating pain he couldn’t sit or stand without this terrible pain. The doctor came up for prayer in my prayer line and he went down under the power but when he got up he said “I’m completely healed all of the pain has left.” When his son in the back of the auditorium heard him say that he ran as fast as he could up the aisle gave me a hug and recommitted his life to Jesus. Now that’s not the end of the story only the beginning.

Sid: That’s sounds pretty good to me how does it end.

Patti: He became so committed that he is on the radio now in 2 stations sending the word of Jesus around the world and he gets reports from Iran, from Iceland, from Africa, from Central America, people who are basically of the Muslim faith.

Sid: Now is this the doctor that was healed that is on the air?

Patti: Yes.

Sid: Okay.

Patti: Yes and …

Sid: And Muslims as I understand Muslims are having tremendous experiences with the Lord and with and the supernatural.  You know it’s in the Bible the Jew requires a sign but Muslim’s are cousins so they require a sign too (Laughing).

Patti: Yeah that’s right they do well it made such an impact he brought a friend who was blind and after prayer Jesus healed his eyes.  He brought…there was a general and his wife and daughter came.

Sid: And these are all Muslims?

Patti: Yes and the wife came up for prayer she could hardly walk with a walker.  She went down under the power after prayer while she’s on the floor when she gets up she says “I had a vision of Jesus and He healed me.” And her daughter who is about in her 30’s stood up in the congregation and said “I had the same vision I had a vision of Jesus and the Lord is manifesting Himself in miracles and visions and people that he loves so much. He loves the Jews, He loves the Muslims and all people but it is through the miracles. Anyway this man is…

Sid: Patti we’re out to time right now but I promised you on tomorrows broadcast I’m going to have Patti to pray for you to have a Baptism of Love.  But between today and tomorrows broadcast get desperate for God get desperate for more of God.  Tell God you’re not satisfied you know that there’s more you want more you’re not satisfied with religion just the way that it is.  You’re not satisfied with just going through the motions. You’re not satisfied with charismatic churches that have just fallen into tradition and they’re not even remotely close to the book of Acts. This is the last generation before the Messiah returns there must be something more. Begin to cry out to God and on tomorrow’s broadcast I’ll have Patti pray for you.

Sid:  My guest by way of telephone I’m speaking to her at her home in Porter Ranch, California is Patti Perior.  Now Patti is an evangelist very sensitive to the Holy Spirit, moves in the miraculous and prophetic gifts of the Spirit. And Patti you really provoke me to jealousy you had an encounter with Tommy Hicks. For those that aren’t familiar with Tommy Hicks would you briefly tell me his background?

Patti: Well Tommy Hicks was used mightily in the 50’s when they had a marvelous outpouring of the Holy Spirit revival broke out in Argentina. He got…Tommy had got on a plane and as an evangelist the Lord told him He’s sending him to Argentina to do a great work. And he asked the stewardess he said “Have you ever heard of Juan Peron? She said “Yes he’s the President.” Well God had told him that he was to meeting with Juan Peron and to rent the largest stadium I guess in Argentina. And that was quite miraculous. Any way I’d read the story of the great Argentina revival and it so impressed me of how God had used this man so mightily. The man who gave me this book was the head of the Navigators at that time in Pasadena, California. I called him and I said “How could I get a hold of more of these books I want to share these books. It’s a very small book and he said “Why don’t you call Tommy?”  And I said “How could I call such a great man of God you mean call and ask him if I can get some books?” And he said “Yes I’ll give you his phone number.” Well with fear and trembling I took the phone number and I thought “Lord I can I just call this man in such an anointing he’s never heard of me how can I get your book?” The Lord began to speak to me and gave me a prophecy to give to him and I wrote it down. So I call Tommy and I said “Tommy I’ve called to see if I could order some books but by the way the Lord gave me a prophecy to give you.” So he told me to give it to him so I read it to him and he said “How soon can you get over here?”  So I called my brother Paul and I was really nervous now Sid that I was going to meet Tommy Hicks in person; so my brother and I went over to meet Tommy. And when we came in he was sitting in a big black leather chair and it seemed like there was a haze around him. It was like there was a cloud that it was even hard for me to distinguish his features.

Sid: Could you feel a greater presence of God than say before you entered the house?

Patti: Oh yes, oh yes the presence of God emanated from Tommy.  And while we were sitting there…

Sid: But the presence of God was so strong that it appeared to you as a haze around him that’s amazing. You had difficulty making out all of his features?

Patti: Yes it was so strong and I asked my brother later I said “Could you distinguish what he looked like? (Laughing) He said “No” he said “There was such a haze around him.” That his hair was grayish white at this time and all we could distinguish the hair and very faintly his features but if I would have passed him on the street I would never had recognized him the anointing on him was so strong.  As we sat there and talked it was a hot summer day and the front door was open there was a screen door. The screen door opened and closed and there was a fragrance came in through that door that so filled the room also.

Sid: Are you telling me it opened and closed by itself?

Patti: Yes.

Sid: The fragrance came in and filled that room I know whose fragrance that was.

Patti: Yes.

Sid: That was the Lord’s fragrance.

Patti: Yes so it was not only the anointing on Tommy it was as though Jesus walked Himself into that place.

Sid: But one of the things that I told you before we started this interview that intrigues me greatly is at another time Tommy Hicks prayed for you. And said that “You were the first person that received this specific anointing besides himself and it’s called “The baptism of love.” We’ve heard of “The baptism in the Holy Spirit” what is the “baptism of love”?

Patti: Well it seemed like it was a process it didn’t happen at his house it happened in our home. There was an increase of the desire of the love of God.  And it’s more than believing about Him, it’s more than power for miracles or to bring forth fruitfulness.  It’s such a desire for the intimacy of Jesus of love and it increased over a period of perhaps a couple of weeks. But it came to a point where I thought “If I don’t receive this baptism of love I think I’ll die.”

Sid: You know what that reminds me I interviewed a man by the name of Rodney Howard Brown and he went into his prayer closet one day and he said “Lord if you don’t touch me take me I want to just die.”  And he had an experience with God that has affected the world, but go ahead. Is that the way it was with you?

Patti: It was it was like I couldn’t stand it it was such a deep desire, a craving is not a strong enough word for it and so one night I invited Tommy Hicks, my brother Paul Lincoln, Georganne and Bill Tenny and one other man over to house and we were going to have Tommy share with us.  So they all came over and Tommy began to share and talk and at the end he said “Let’s make a circle in the middle of the room and pray.” And so when he prayed for me this Holy Spirit came upon me in such a degree such an overwhelming manner I just dropped to floor, flat on my back. And I could see a vision of rivers of living water pouring out of the midst of me filling the room, filling and it was just like an ocean and this overwhelming love. This was the occurrence in my case of this baptism of love I was so filled with the love of God. My love for Him had so increased, my love for the hurting and those in pain and those who don’t know the Lord as their Savior became so intense and it has never left me. And you know although you have all of the gifts of the Spirit you have not love…but there is even a greater degree of love the Lord wants to give to His church which He calls His bride.

Sid: Well if not now when (Laughing)?

Patti: (Laughing) Yeah, yes.  Yes I feel the Lord is calling people to even ask for the Lord to give them the Baptism of love or even to that their desire for the love will come because the Holy Spirit draws us to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. And I believe the Holy Spirit woos us so that we will open up to surrender to receive the initial baptism of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is continuing luring and drawing us to bring us into greater dimensions of all that He is into the fullness. And I believe that there are those listening to us today that they just want so much more of Him.  They just want their lives are filled with mundane things that do not satisfy and they just need the love of God to fill them.

Sid: Patti I believe that if starting now those that are listening will be praying out to God “God I need more of Your love, I need more of Your compassion for people, I need to experience your love I know there’s more.” If you’ll start crying out to God right now that either on Thursday or Friday I’m going to ask Patti to release this anointing upon you and I believe it’s going to have a major impact on your life. But between now and then I mean even if you can fast and pray and say “God I know I’m desperate and I’m not desperate enough God but I want to be desperate make me desperate.” If you’ll pray along those lines I believe God’s going to meet you because that’s what Rodney Howard Brown told me he said “You have to be hungry.” And if you’re not hungry you have to be honest and say “God make me hungry.” But you have to be hungry for more of God. Now Patti you told me that there is a book that makes people hungry for more of God it’s called “The Wigglesworth Standard”. I was not aware of it until you made me aware of this book, it’s based on the life and unpublished messages of Smith Wigglesworth.  The author of this book found 37 unpublished manuals of Smith Wigglesworth and he puts in this book Wigglesworth. And for those unfamiliar Wigglesworth prayed for 14 dead people that came back to life, for people that are insane and they got their sanity back, he’s literally stumps became legs and feet, cancers have fallen off, deaf people heard. And one of the great men of faith and he reveals his keys to walking in miracles and having your prayers answered.