SID: Now Billye, you talk about drawing a blood line. This again is what they used to teach at the great Azusa Street Revival. What does that mean and how do you do it?

BILLYE: Well this story was told to me by Don Gossett, maybe you knew him, and he knew of a Brother Stephenson who had gone up in to Canada and was doing, this was years ago, and was doing some meetings and they were really hitting the devil hard. So the devil started telling Brother Stephenson, “I’m going to kill your children while you’re away.” And Brother Stephenson said, “Oh no, you’re not.” He had left his children in the care of their grandparents. And the devil said to him, “You saw foxes on your land before you left. I have placed rabies on them and they’re going to kill your children.” So Brother Stephenson, his wife and the pastors there, they grabbed hands and they drew a blood line around his property. A few days, weeks later, he got a letter. It was before when we had cell phones and he didn’t make long distance calls that much. He got a letter from his brother and his brother said, “I was out walking your property line and I found five dead foxes. I sent them off and they were rabid.” So they drew a blood line and the foxes didn’t cross it because the enemy had told them, “I put the rabies on it.”

SID: But if the blood line hadn’t been there, those foxes with rabies would have gone in.

BILLYE: Yes, and would have killed them.

SID: That blood line sounds pretty good to me.

BILLYE: Oh, I’m telling you, that blood line, the biblical basis for this is the Passover. The Bible says, “The destroyer came.” And it says in Hebrews that, “Moses sprinkled with the blood lest the destroyer come against them.” So it’s the destroying death angel that came to Pharaoh and killed the firstborn. But what did they do? He told them, “You slay on them. You put the blood as a token.” Tokens are to be seen. “As a token on the lintel and the post and then this death angel will pass over the blood It can’t come into you.” That’s a blood line. Now what did you have to do? You had to believe that that blood line was there on the door post, but you couldn’t just believe it and go out anywhere you wanted to go. You had to get behind that blood line. You had to take you and your family behind that blood line. So that’s what I do with me and my family. I take us behind the blood line. So we apply the blood by pleading the blood as a token to be seen. And I can guarantee you that the enemy knows me. He said, “Jesus I know and Paul I know. But who are you?” he said to the seven sons of Sceva, but he knows me. He would mark me, I’m telling you right now. He doesn’t like teaching authority to the believer.

SID: Hey, here’s what I’d like to know. You have understood this. You have pleaded the blood. You have spoken. You’ve made much of the blood.

BILLYE: Yes, I have.

SID: How many children and grandchildren do you have?

BILLYE: I have four children. I have ten grandchildren, three great-grandchildren, two on the way and all my children are in the ministry and eight of ten grandchildren are in the ministry.

SID: I’ll tell you what, I believe because you knew how to plead the blood, because you knew how to put the blood line on, because you knew how to pray from that seed of authority at the right hand of God the Father, you are one wealthy woman, not with money, but with family. There is nothing wealthier. Don’t go away.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with John and Lisa Bevere. Lisa, where would you say an important turning point in your marriage was?

LISA: You know, when I chose to forgive. You know, when John came home when I locked him out, I got alone with God and I was like, “God, I hope that you’re speaking to John. I hope that you are rebuking him. I hope you’re giving him some bad dreams. I hope that you’re just going to jerk the slack out of him.” And God said, “You need to forgive.” And I was like, no, no, no. I’ll forgive him when he changes. And the Holy Spirit said, “No, you need to forgive him so he can change.” We don’t understand the power of forgiveness. When I forgive somebody, I actually release them to be everything that God wants them to be. And John came home from that weekend locked out and came to me, and he was like, hey, I’m sorry. And usually I would say, well I forgive you, but you need to understand, you did this, this, this, this and this. I had a whole bank account. But the Holy Spirit said, “I want you to look at is your husband and when he says, I’m sorry, I want you to say, I believe you want to change and I forgive you.” And that is what Jesus says to me every single time I come to him. He doesn’t say, Lisa I’ve got this whole list of things and you’re going to do it again in the future. He just says, I believe you want to change and I forgive you. You know, looking back over 33 years of marriage, there’s a couple of things I regret as a wife, things that I wish I would have done differently. And number one, I wish I would have loved him more fearlessly. You know, I came into the marriage—

SID: What do you mean by fearlessly?

LISA: Well I came in with a lot of fear. So I would measure my love. I wasn’t willing to give all of my heart to John because I was afraid if I gave him all of my heart that he would break my heart. So I would always reserve a little bit back. And I remember John would say to me, “I’m not your dad. I’m not your dad. I’m not going to leave you, I’m going to abandon you.” I was so afraid that if he made a mistake it was going to destroy me. And so I would control him and then he would try to control me, and it was just this ridiculous dynamic. We did a lot of things imperfectly, but we learned from all of our mistakes. And so that’s, again, what you asked me earlier in the show, why would we have shared that. Because we actually really do want something more for the other couples.

SID: John, what affect did it have on you when your wife just forgave you with no list, no laundry list?

JOHN: When you’re forgiven like that, you all of a sudden, your heart gets even more tender to doing wrong again. And that’s what people don’t realize, is the forgiveness that God gives, it motivates us to want to please him more. We’re so overwhelmed by his mercy that he’s given to us. I don’t want to hurt his heart because he’s been so good to me. When your spouse is like that with you, it’s the same way. It’s no different. And so I would just say with couples that you’re looking at your side too much. You’ve got to start believing. You know, I kept thinking about when you were saying that, that the love of God, its hopes are fadeless. The hopes never give up. When Jesus, you know, says to us, he says, hey, you’ve done this, you know, 500 times before, I’m not going to listen to you anymore. Well you know, he’s not going to be saying it 500 times, because you know what? His forgiveness really does release us. And that’s what I’ve noticed about God’s forgiveness in my life, is that it really frees me and empowers me. Her forgiveness to me freed me and empowered me to be a better husband. I know that marriage is an institution given by God because it makes us better as individuals. God said in Malachi that “He’s looking for godly offspring out of marriage.” Well it says offspring in the New King James. But in another version it says, “Looking for godly children.” And I think what God is saying is not only natural children, but it makes us better men and women of God because you’d never, ever, ever had read one book by John Bevere, never, not one had it not been for Lisa Bevere. Never. Because I am today because of what she and Jesus have done in my life.

SID: There was a quote you told me before we went on the air, it’s from the Message Bible about divorce. Would you tell that again.

JOHN: Well you know, Jesus, if you look at the Message Bible, when Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and to his own disciples, he called marriage God’s art. And he said, “I’ll hold you accountable for desecrating God’s art. Can you imagine if somebody went and on the Mona Lisa, the original, would have just vandalized it. I mean, Leonardo Da Vinci would have rolled over in his grave, right. Can you imagine how God feels the way marriage is being treated right now in our nation, even amongst Christians. It’s like our society is taking God’s term and they’re desecrating it right now with the way they’re defining it. They’re ruining this organic union.

SID: John, there’s a lot of hurting people out there. Would you pray for them?

JOHN: I want to look at you right now. If your marriage is under attack, let me tell you, this attack can be thwarted, it can be stopped. And so I want to pray for you right now. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom I belong to, whom I serve, who has changed my marriage, I speak to the demonic forces that have attacked this marriage and I break the power of those forces, and I call for strife and division to leave this marriage. I release forgiveness into this marriage and I release the hope that is in Christ Jesus into this marriage. In Jesus’ name, I command all opposition, every word that’s been spoken against your union. I break the power of those words and I release the Word of God that says, there will be a miracle, there will be a fusing together of the hearts and souls in this marriage, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Amen.

SID: I have a word from God for you. Don’t give up. Never give up.

SID: Now I hope you like our aprons. It says, “Meshuga for Yeshua”. Meshuga is Hebrew for crazy and Yeshua is Hebrew for Jesus. So it’s saying, “Crazy for Jesus”. And some of you are laughing at me at home. I’m going to get the last laugh. Who are you crazy for? Well when we were going to break, I’m concerned about what is going on inside of our bodies. This inflammation, it’s pandemic, literally, and it’s increasing all the time. And you tell me that it’s the cause of just about every disease there is. So you said you have a solution. Before we, during our break, Cherie told me she was going to introduce me to God’s pharmacy.

CHERIE: And here we are. And this is our answer. The anti-inflammatory diet is what we’re talking about today and showing you. And whether you juice or not, not everybody wants to juice vegetables, but everybody has got to eat. We eat usually three times a day, and some people are eating even more than that.

SID: Why are you looking at me that way?

CHERIE: You don’t. You’re trim. But we’ve got to eat something.

SID: Right.

CHERIE: Let’s eat God’s food, real food, clean food, they’re calling it today, non-sprayed, no pesticides, not adulterated, not denatured, not put in boxes and packages, but real, whole food, God’s vegetables and fruit and beautiful clean meats, and wild caught fish, and stuff not sprayed, organic. And this is God’s answer. This is what he’s provided for us. It’s the right fuel for these bodies.

SID: Point out a little of God’s pharmacy here. This looks so good. You’re getting me hungry.

CHERIE: And I hope to get everybody hungry. So we’ve got a beautiful salmon nicoise salad. Nicoise is just the vegetables and so forth, arranged on the plate. And you could put a dressing over it, beautiful wild caught salmon. We’ve got rutabaga on here. Try some vegetables you haven’t tried before, absolutely going to be so great for you. And then moving over, we’ve got a free-range chicken and this is good for you, and vegetables, green beans and carrots. Get more vegetables into your diet. Everybody is studying, from Harvard University on down, and increasing the number of vegetables that we should be eating. Servings are going up. It’s not the five any more. It’s seven to maybe 13, and so few people are eating hardly any. So it’s time to do that. That’s why I love to talk about juicing. You can get a whole bunch of those vegetables in.

SID: That looks more like fruit. Is that?

CHERIE: Here’s an anti-inflammatory shake: dark red cherries, proven by studies to cut down inflammation. Dark chocolate, this is unsweetened. Remember we want to get those sugars out. And a good milk like almond milk or hemp milk, unsweetened, and blend all that up and we’ve got a fabulous anti-inflammatory dark chocolate cherry shake, dark cherries also very good for gout, anyone that’s suffering from that. I’ve got so many recipes that I share with people, like this.

SID: Now Cherie, I have a lot of friends that salt everything. What’s wrong with table salt?

CHERIE: Well here we’ve got a little example. The table salt that we find everywhere today in restaurants and what we buy and take home, is not good. If it is salt, it’s heated to very, very high temperatures, anti-caking agents, sugars, and all sorts of things put in there. But what they’re using a lot today is from the crude oil flake leftovers that they’re creating for salt. Do not do that. Do not have that salt. Get the real stuff like pink Himalayan salt or sea salt and use that because it’s rich in minerals. That’s the kind of salt God gave us.

SID: What about, I have to talk about me now, I microwave everything. What’s wrong with microwave?

CHERIE: Okay, I’m going to come to your house. We cannot microwave. It creates toxic byproducts in our food. And lots of people love the convenience. Oh, I’ll just pop it in the microwave, you know, a couple of minutes. This is not good. All of this convenience is harming our bodies. We do not want toxic byproducts in our food, and it denatures and destroys nutrients, and then creates toxicity on top of it. A lot of people say to me, can’t I just microwave it because I don’t care if I destroy all the nutrient for a few meals. No, no, no, because you’re going to end up with toxic stuff in there. And so I say, it’s so easy, I heat everything up. Get out a pan. Just put your leftovers in there. Get out your teakettle, warm your water there, heat it up. It will only take maybe a minute or two more, but you’re saving your body, and you’re doing so much good for your body.

SID: Allergies, it’s pandemic. I mean, you take a kid to a doctor today and they’ll have a list, you’re allergic to a hundred things. What’s causing that?

CHERIE: Yes. It’s our bad diet and all of the foods that are denatured, the fiber removed, all the nutrients practically removed, And they’re chock full of toxic stuff, pesticides, herbicides in there, additives, colors, the dyes in there, and all sorts of other preservatives and things in that food. The body was never designed to have that. And then we’re missing out on God’s pharmacy, all of the high nutrition we need: the vitamins, minerals, enzymes, biophotons, phytonutrients that feed our body, feed our immune system. So all of these allergies, asthma and so forth, this is an immune system out of balance, out of whack, over-reacting, causing all of these problems. So many people I’ve worked with get on the right program and many of these allergies disappear.

SID: Another problem in America is most Americans are grossly overweight. If we eat all this great food, we’re going to be even fatter.

CHERIE: We’re going to be slimmer.

SID: Why?

CHERIE: Like you. We’re going to be trim. Because you know what? We’re not getting all of that food that’s, it’s a model culture food diet that’s going all over the world right now. It’s based on gluten and potato starch, and corn, and sugar, and in all sorts of forms. That is the most fattening stuff on the face of the earth. And you know? On top of it, people are still hungry. So people will eat a whole bunch of this stuff and a little while later, they’ll say, I’m still hungry, I want a little something, I want something else. It’s not a bowl of ice cream your body is craving. But people are still eating and eating, and eating because your brain is sending a message to your body, feed me nutrients, vitamins, minerals, enzymes. I need more the right stuff and they’re not giving it the right stuff, so they’re eating and eating, and eating bags of chips and crackers, and cookies, and burgers and fries, and shakes, milkshakes, and ice cream, and on and on it goes.

SID: You know what I’m so amazed? Doctors say stress is one of the most dangerous things and causes so many problems. This will get rid of your stress. I can’t wait for you to see in your life the marriage of the natural and the supernatural, and I pray in Yeshua’s name that you start taking care of your body, which God says is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

SID: Do you know what I find so fascinating? Once you understand these supernatural keys to hearing God’s voice, people, have you ever seen a pastor stand up and give a prophecy or an evangelist stand up and have words of knowledge, and you said, boy, I would like to hear that God. If people use these supernatural keys, can they flow in the gifts of the Spirit?

MARK: Yes.

SID: I mean, just an average person.

MARK: Yes, they absolutely can. It’s incredibly simple. If we make this harder than a child can do, it’s not Christianity. So when you’re checking out and the lady is checking you out at the grocery store, you can say, “Lord Jesus, I know you’re standing next to this lady.” And you just picture the Lord next to her and say, “What do you want to say to this lady right now?” You tune to flow and the flowing thought that comes to you, share it with them, a word of encouragement, a word of love, a word of life, the flowing thought that comes, and you speak it.

SID: But what is the difference between your own thoughts and a flowing thought. Explain this.

MARK: Well my own thoughts are connected. They’re analytical, they’re cognitive. I say, hmmm, two plus two is, I think it’s four. That’s connected lineal thinking. Flowing thought, I don’t build it myself. It just comes, it becomes a life of its own. And if it’s coming from the Holy Spirit, it lines up with the names of Jesus. It’s wonderful comfort, it’s counsel, it’s light.

SID: So you’re telling me you don’t even have to think for this flow to occur?

MARK: No. When you think, you cut it off.

SID: Okay. That leads to the fourth key, journaling. What is journaling?

MARK: Journaling is, God said to Habakkuk, he said, “Inscribe the vision.” Get your out pencil and write it down. So I use my keyboard and I say, “Lord, what do you want to say to me?” And then I tune to flow, and when the flow kicks in, I’ll just write. I just type or write.

SID: Why do you bother writing? Why don’t you just remember?

MARK: Ah, because if you write, you can write in faith for five or ten, or 15 minutes, and for God to talk me for 15 minutes, and I can get a page or two. And because I don’t have to test it now, because I’m going to write in faith, because I know I can test it later once I’ve got it all written out.

SID: How do you test it?

MARK: I test it by making sure it’s compatible to scripture, alright, and make sure it lines up with the names of Jesus and the fruit of the spirit, you know, and the gifts of the spirit, and not the name of Satan or the fruit of Satan. Alright. It can’t be accusative, negative, destructive or a thief. Alright. So who does it line up with? The Bible says, “The mouth of two or three witnesses, everything is confirmed.” So I even bring it up to my wife and a couple of others and say, “Do you feel in your heart it came from God?” If they say yes, then I’m going to run with it at that point in time.

SID: Tell me someone that used these four supernatural keys and began to operate in, say, a gift of the Spirit. Pick one person out.

MARK: Well one lady is a lady named Tara and she had become a tremendous blogger where she could see amazing visions. I mean, way beyond the visions I see, more precise, more detail. And she blogs them out, she sends them out and it just opened up that entire ministry to her of seeing in the spirit. Other people have had dreams. To other people, it’s a dream. And I’ve had a person say, you know, all the gifts of Spirit just became alive within them once they learned to tune to flow and hear the voice of God.

SID: You said something so profound to me about, whatever you focus on, it grows. Explain that.

MARK: This is a reigning word God gave to me many years ago. He said, “Mark, whatever you fix your eyes on, grows within you, and whatever grows within you, you become.” And at that point in my, life I was fixing my eyes on my sinfulness and saying, oh Mark, you’re a miserable sinner. And so sinfulness grew within me and I became more sinful. And then to overcome it, I would fix my eyes on biblical law and legalism would grow within me, and I’d become a legalist. And he said, “Don’t do that.” He said, “‘Fix your eyes on Jesus,’ Hebrews 12:1 and 2, ‘and let Jesus grow within you’ and you become Christ-like.'” And so the year that I focused on abiding in Christ, seeing Jesus with me all the time, he pointed out at the end of the year that sin that I battled with all of my life had fallen away as a byproduct of letting Jesus grow within me.

SID: Okay. I want you to flow right now and pray a supernatural prayer of impartation for those that are watching.

MARK: Alright. Alright. Let me pray for you right now. Father, I just release for those that are watching to those with open hearts, I release to you right now the faith that God has given to me to believe that there’s a river within, which is a river of God, which does flow, and giving flowing thoughts and flowing visions, God’s voice and God’s vision. So I release faith into your heart right now and I say, faith, arise, faith arise, faith arise. And I’d like you to just put your hands out and say, “I receive that gift of faith, I receive that gift of faith and I choose to believe the river within me and the flow within me is the river of God, as the Bible has declared.” And as you make that your declaration, you will walk, you will walk in that river and you will live in that river, and God will be glorified.

SID: And of course, the main key before you to activate those four keys is to know God. This is eternal life that you might know him. I want you to do what the Bible says. Repeat this prayer out loud because the Bible says, “If you confess with your mouth, you’ll believe in your heart and you will be rescued.” Say, dear God, out loud, dear God, I’m a sinner. Please forgive me. I believe the blood of Jesus washes away my sins and I am clean. And now that I am clean, I boldly proclaim that Jesus is my Messiah and Lord. Jesus, live inside of me. Be my Lord. Amen.

Sid:  How about you? I mean you think you’re being anonymous you think no one knows about you? Well God says “I have every hair on your head numbered” and I believe that you are one of God’s choicest vessels of all the generations to be alive. God has called you to His kingdom for such a time as this and if you want a real understanding of where we’re at and why it’s so important, why there’s such a war for the supernatural blindness and separation between Jews and Christians. But God’s doing something and you want to be on God’s side. You don’t want to be a goat nation, you don’t want to be on the side that God says “I’ll curse those who curse the Jewish people.”  You want to be on the side where God says “I’ll bless those who bless the Jewish people.”

Turn to John chapter 17 starting in verse 20 and this is the Messiah’s prayer most of us are familiar with but let’s look at it in a different way. The Messiah prayed “I do not pray for these alone” He was praying for the Jewish people that were with Him at that time. He says “I do not pray for these alone but also for those who will believe in Me through their word.” So He’s praying for those who will believe in the report of the Jewish people of the Jewish prophets based on the Jewish scriptures about the blood of the Jewish Messiah, the Gentiles. So who is the Messiah praying for? The whole world Jews and Gentiles.

Now John 17 verse 21 here’s what His prayer is “That they all may be one as you Father are in Me and I in You that they.” Who’s they? Jews and Gentiles. “Well I’ve heard people say it’s Baptist and Presbyterians, and Pentecostals, and Catholics.” No for sure not. Why? None of them existed when the Messiah prayed this prayer there was only 2 people groups at that time Jews and Gentiles. My goodness you need help to get confused on that.  So Yeshua prayed “That they all (that’s Jews and Gentiles) may be one.”

What will happen when Jews and Gentiles become one? I read to you the other day from Romans it say it’ll cause life from the dead when Jewish people are grafted back into their own olive tree. But this is what the Messiah says “When they become one.” The next verse verse 22 of John 17 “And the glory which you gave Me.” Imagine the glory that’s on the Messiah imagine how awesome that glory is it’s without measure. “The glory which you gave Me I have given them that they may be one just as We are one.” That glory is going to make us one but when we’re one that’s going to release the glory, the 2 go together. You want to see the same glory without measure that’s on the Messiah, on the church? All we have to do is believe the prayer of Messiah Yeshua “That they may be one.” Not only will the glory be released at that time.

Jump down to the 26^th verse of the same chapter “And I have declared to them your name and will declare it. (This is what else is going to happen) That the love with which you love Me may be in them.” Do you want to see the kind of love that the Messiah had, the acceptance of Messiah had, the peace the Messiah had because of His relationship with God the Father? Would you like to see that type of relationship that you would have with God the Father? Would you like to see that kind of intimacy? Would you like to say like Messiah said “I only do what I see My heavenly Father doing. I only say what My heavenly Father says.” Would you like to have that type of union with God? Would you like to have a release of that kind of love? It’s all tied to the prayer of Messiah that they may be one. Who may be one? Jew and Gentile. One in who? One in Messiah, One New Man. I’ll tell you it’s so simple you need help to get confused on it.

In Malachi the 4^th chapter the 6^th verse this is very important. You realize this is the last book of the Christian Bible Old Testament. You also realize that the New Testament that we treasure was not available for the first church, it was even penned till about 50 AD. So what happened for those 20 years from 30 till 50 when they refer to the scriptures? They are not referring to the New Testament they are referring to the Jewish scriptures.  So what’s the last book of the Christian Old testament? The book of Malachi 4^th chapter 6^th verse must have been very important. The last word God chose for the Gentiles to read and “He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.” Well I believe this is talking about literal fathers and literal children but the book of Romans the 9^th chapter tells us there’s a spiritual application to the word fathers. It says “We owe a debt of gratitude to the Jewish people because of them is the fathers, of them is the glory.”

You see when the Jew and the Gentile become one we get that Old Covenant glory combined with that New Covenant glory and devil watch out your days are numbered. God says it even stronger than that, He says here in Malachi “That unless the hearts of the fathers (the Jewish people).” Well if the fathers are the Jewish people who are the children? The Christians. “Unless the hearts of the Jewish people are turned to the Christians, and the hearts of the Christians are turned to the Jewish people I’m going to strike this earth with a curse.” Sound familiar? Sound like the 5^th commandment? Honor your mother and father so your life will be long. In other words there’s a curse if Jews and Christians don’t get together, and there is a blessing long life life of God if the 2 get together.

See how important this is? This is why I wrote my new book because I believe it’s a forerunner of the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history. It’s called “The Last Lap.” You know one of my earlier books was called “There Must Be Something More.” I remember as a college student, Jewish not knowing the Messiah. I used to write music and songs and one of my songs was “There Must Be Something More.” The words went something like this:

Because I work eat sleep and that’s the way it goes.

Because I work eat sleep and that’s the way it goes.

There MUST be something more.

My heart was crying out I knew there was something more. Then when I became a believer in the Messiah I recognized what that something more was. It’s knowing the Messiah, but in my heart that song is ringing even louder than ever before. Yes I’m at peace in knowing the Messiah, but (crying out) Oh God I know that there’s something more in intimacy, there’s something more in the miraculous, there’s something more in loving God with all of my heart that I’m capable of, there’s something more in loving my brother as I love myself and I’m capable of! God unless you make that move on me, unless you allow me to have greater intimacy then I can’t do it! I can will it! I can want it but oh God I need you to cause the miracle!

I believe the book that I’ve written “The Last Lap” subtitled “The Emergence of the One New Man” is going to be the teaching catalyst. I’m not the only one that has this teaching. It’s rearing up all over the world right now. I hear people in Israel talking about this, people in Russia, people in the United States, people in England all over the world people are talking about the emergence of the One New Man.

Let me read to you a few of the questions I deal with in this book. Why are there so few miracles in the church today? And this is a biggy, how has Christianity deviated from the Biblical pattern? Should Christians observe the Saturday Sabbath? Why do Jews distrust Christians? What is the “Rabbinic Conspiracy?” Who is Israel? What will the glorious church look like? What is the future for Messianic Judaism and Christianity? What will the catalyst be to release the greatest and last revival on planet earth? What is the glorious congregation going to look like?

I was in Boone, North Carolina a few weeks ago and I went into a Christian bookstore and started to… I got a book on intimacy with God and so the person selling it to me started a conversation and said “Oh this is a wonderful book.” I said “What church do you go to?” They said “Well we used to go to so and so church and it’s not because they were doing anything wrong but we just stopped going. We just have such a hunger for an intimacy with God. It wasn’t that this church was doing anything bad but it was same old same old and God didn’t have to show up and no one would even know.” They didn’t say that but that was the implication so they started a house group, and you know the first church started in house groups. I am finding this happening all over the world. There are so many good Christians that aren’t even in the church today because they can’t put their finger on it but it’s just… I can put my finger on it. It’s religion, it’s tradition at its stinkiest but I believe this satisfaction is a Godly dissatisfaction and it’s going to result in the birth in a movement of the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history when the latter rain and the former rain start coming down together one. When Jew and Christian are coming together, when the middle wall of separation is broken down it’s not going to be a Messianic Jewish synagogue and a Gentile church coming together for picnics. Oh no! God has something bigger something so much bigger planned. You see He’s going to… remember I said earlier the Jew looks at the Christian and says “I don’t see anything Jewish that you have.” The Christian looks at the Jew and says “I don’t see anything Christian that you have.” Oi vey how can there be such an oxymoron? I mean Christianity is Jewish! The 2 are one the 2 are meant to be one it’s like two halves that have to be put together to see the whole.

I tell you we are in the phase right now in which that middle wall of separation is coming down between Jew and Gentile. It’s the last lap and God has reserved His champion to run that last lap, and it’s not the Messianic Jew, and it’s not the Gentile Christian but it’s the 2 arm and arm. His champion running… it looks like we’re behind but when they get in that relay race that last lap is made up of a Jew and Christian holding hands running together a prayer shawl, a tallit around them, running around the track and all the other teams are wondering “Who was that masked man? Oh they’re fast my goodness they’re making me look I’m running in slow motion.” Well God’s in a hurry. Yes God is in a hurry for the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit.

Sid: Sid Roth here with Larry Sparks and Larry this vision it really impressed me that God gave you of those ancient rusty gates that were blocking things tell me about it.

Larry: It’s interesting it’s one of those areas in my life where at the time it was like the supernatural and the theological collided. I was at a revival meeting it was the Bay of the Holy Spirit it was Nathan Morris was the Evangelist ministering and it was a movement that came out of Pastor John Kilpatrick’s church in Mobile, Alabama. Pastor Kilpatrick the Pastor of the Brownsville Revival so God was doing something powerful in their midst they were in Orlando, Florida. I came because I was just hungry, I do whatever I can to connect myself with the legitimate move of the Holy Spirit and I encourage people if you feel dry and weary and your faith is waning and you want that fire back in your faith one of the best things that you can possible do is to expose yourself to the move of God is to connect with what God is doing. That’s what I did I went to this Revival Meeting and at the end we were just having altar time I’ll never forget Lidia Stanley the Worship Leader started to play a prophetic song and over and over again she started singing “Open up the gates, open up the doors.” And I remember rushing to the altar it’s one of those things where Sid my mind didn’t know what was happening but my spirit knew that God wanted to release something I didn’t quite know what it was but I ran up to the altar and I was just hungry and I was just kneeling down. It was a vision of the mind where I saw as we were singing this the atmosphere of hunger crying out “God open up the gates.” I had this vision of the mind where I saw these ancient rusty gates and when I explain gates it’s like they have bars down the middle and so it’s not a complete door it’s a gate that something can get through through the bars but in a limited quantity. And I felt this as I saw this the Lord spoke to me and said “Over you know…My Spirit has not been withdrawn from the earth.”  Now sometimes even in Charismatic circles we think “Well there was the Book of Acts and then there’s a kind of silent time and then there’s Azusa Street happen.” But His Spirit really one thing I learned His Spirit has not been withdrawn from the earth and it’s so important to recognize that because throughout history there has been a remnant there have been people in every generation pressing in for the fullness of God. And what I saw in this vision is that throughout this century there has been a measure of activity of supernatural activity released from heaven into the earth through these like small holes in the gates.  But as time is progressing toward the end as we’re entering really the last and great harvest and that there…Sid I know that you connect with a lot of people I think that by enlarge there is this atmosphere of just corporate hunger perhaps more than ever before.  I just see it there’s communities rising up training people in the supernatural, more and more becoming theologically recognized. There’s theologians of the Holy Spirit I’m seeing something amazing. And in that vision what I saw was as this just cry of anger went up in great desperation I saw the gates actually lifting so that no longer was there just a restricted flow of the supernatural coming in through these holes in the bars but actually the entire gate was going up and there was just an unrestricted measure of the presence and power of God, gifts of the Spirit being released through that open gate.  It was amazing I believe that is the season that we’re entering into and like I said the key was as I saw the gate lifted up it was like the gate was controlled not by God’s sovereignty but by the hunger and the cries of the people who wanted more.

Sid: Now you talk in your book about bad stewardship of the supernatural explain what you mean.

Larry: Well.

Sid: And that’s been restricting things in the past.

Larry: Yes, yes and even again sometimes in communities where we believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit where we believe in the power of God we have a stewardship. And one thing we need to recognize is what we received 2000 years ago God gave us a precious gift He gave us His Son He gave us the Messiah. The wonderful thing is Jesus the Messiah came to yes get us into heaven He forgave us of our sins and cleaned us with His blood but He also made a provision for us to have something on earth. He cleansed us so that we could be people fit so that we could be inhabited by God to be fit to become the temple of God in the earth. So when I talk about stewardship of the supernatural every single Christian, every single genuine believer in Jesus has received the Holy Spirit. I don’t believe there is an upgrade of the Holy Spirit 2.0 type of thing however, however what are we doing with Him.  How…what are we doing with His presence in our life? How are we drawling close to Him? Are we developing and cultivating friendship and intimacy with Him and do we recognize the precious gift that God has given us?  Because I believe as we do, as we simply learn to do life living filled with the Holy Spirit everything changes.

Sid: Okay but what do you mean by stewarding?  We have not been good stewards, what do you mean by that?

Larry: It’s recognizing the Holy Spirit has actually given us the ability to do there is the Person that God’s put inside of us and the Holy Spirit has given every single believer the ability to walk in the supernatural.  I mean Jesus said it very clearly I believe it’s in Matthew 10 when He sent out the disciples He sent them on a mission He said “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons freely you have received, freely you’ve received now freely give.” We’ve received the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead and there’s nothing that’s impossible for Him to do. So stewardship of the Holy Spirit supernatural it’s recognizing what we received and responding appropriately.  For example with faith when we get born again when we get saved it’s the Bible talks about “We receive a measure of faith.” Now do I believe that we should be constantly begging for more faith?”  Now I don’t know if that’s the right language I do know that when we get saved we get a measure of faith this measure of faith is supernatural because it causes us…it enables us to believe that Jesus is the Messiah the Savior.  It enables us to believe that one day we’re going to live with Him for heaven and it enables us to believe that actually the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of us.  My thing is that if we’re able to believe all of those things because of this faith that we received why is it that we’re not putting that faith to work for other things like healing, and deliverance and living what the Bible defines as normal. And that’s the thing, what we’re doing is the Bible is our standard and we’re living beneath the standard and we need to actually raise our experience and our lifestyles back up to the standard and press in for that.

Sid: You know I often wonder I hear many believers say “Oh I don’t have enough faith.” What would you say to them?

Larry: God says “You have enough faith.” God says the word of God says “You have received a measure of faith.” You have faith that can get you to heaven, and you have faith that can raise the dead. So the reality is that we have been given all of the faith we’re going to ever receive. Now we can work it out, we work out faith just like we work out our natural muscles when we go to the gym. When we go to the gym we don’t get new muscles we work out what’s already on the inside of us and that’s what’s going to happen I believe as you take some of these practical keys and apply them whether it’s testimony, or declaring the word of God, or spending time in the presence of God. There are practical things that I believe are going to build your faith just like we build our muscles in the gym.

Sid: You talk about the need for hope in our society we sure have a need amplify on that.

Larry: Yeah, again we’re inundated with hopelessness and I believe that there are some very practical things that we can do to just start stirring up hope inside of us.

1. We need to know that God is able and willing.  Really that’s one of the birth places for hope in us.  A lot of us sing about how God is able, we know that God is able we have a Bible filled with all of the things that show God’s ability.  He split the sea, He walked through the fiery furnace, He’s done so many things He’s demonstrated His ability. But there are so many people that don’t have hope because they had not married God’s ability with His willingness. So I encourage you the God who is able is also willing. And when you know that that stirs up hope, it give you hope it not only God can do this but He wants to.  So you got to know that God is able and willing.
2. Another thing is just spend time in the word of God and look for new possibilities. If you’re sick look for the possibilities of healing they actually release and ignite hope inside of you if you are oppressed, if you are tormented, if you are dealing with fear and anxiety look for Bible promises in the scripture that deal with fear and anxiety and worry. What does that do? It gives you new option.

Sid: Alright what would you say to the person that feels “I see God doing that for others but you don’t know my past I am totally unworthy.”

Larry: Well the wonderful thing is you may feel like you have run a million miles away from God, and I’m sure that there are people that are listening that feel that way. You may feel like listen you don’t know my past, you don’t know my present, you don’t know what I’m dealing with now, you don’t know what I’m struggling with you don’t know the sin I’m in I’ve run so far away from God. But the good news is God has run towards you you can’t run the million miles back to God but the good news is He has run those million miles towards you. And what we just simply need to do is turn make about face whatever your struggling with, whatever you’re dealing with whatever the past the devil want to have that over you like a constant rain cloud. So all you’re focused on are your mistakes and your failures and your sins. Here’s what I encourage you to do “Repent.” What does that mean “To do an about face.” You may be staring at all of the junk I encourage you right now to do that just by the power and the unction of the Holy Spirit just turn around from those things, turn away from sin and turn towards God. One of the definitions I love of repentance is Bill Johnson calls it a lifestyle of repentance is a lifestyle living face to face with God.” And the reality is we look upon Him because He is infinitely more glorious and beautiful and wonderful and loving than all of that junk. Because all of that junk tries to do all the sin, all of the mistakes it just tries to keep us restrained and held back. So you are not beyond God’s help, you are not beyond God intervention, you are not beyond a miracle I just encourage you turn and face Him.  See Him for how good He truly is. The Bible says “I lift up my eyes to the hills; where does my help come from, it comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth.” Even as we talk right now Sid I feel like the Holy Spirit is touching people people like you just described “I’m just unworthy, I’m just unclean.” But the Holy Spirit’s touching them and it’s almost like I see Him taking their chin and they may have had their face and head down in disgust and shame and the Holy Spirit’s just lifting it, lifting it, lifting up their eyes to see God in His mercy and His grace.  Turning their eyes from sin walking towards Him and He’s a faithful God He will never let you down.

Sid: Now you have a big problem with people that pray “Lord if it be your will.” Well they feel pretty humble when they pray that way but what would you say?

Larry: It sounds spiritual, it sounds theological, I’ve heard it and there is…there are times to pray if it be Thy will when it comes to making a decision in life you know when it comes to taking a job moving to a certain city. There are times you know we would call that a prayer of petition. But here’s the thing the Bible makes so many things just black and white. Randy Clark says “The things in the Bible I struggle with are not the complicated things they’re the simple ones.” And by struggle he meant “Those are the things I actually want to live it.”  You know Jesus said like John 14:12 “The same works I have done you will do and greater works.” You know if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, the smallest faith you will say to this “Be removed cast into the sea and it shall be done.” These are pretty black and white scriptures; these are pretty black and white truth.” So I really believe that there are things in the Bible that are black and white very clear that there’s no if it be Thy will.  There is no if it be Thy will when it comes to healing. When it comes to deliverance seeing people set free from demonic torment, from fear. Those are the…why do I say that, why can I say that with confidence because Jesus Christ was the expressed image of the invisible God. What does that mean? Everything that Jesus said, everything that Jesus did totally accurately revealed the will of God. And what Jesus did. And that’s why it’s so important for us to spend time in the gospels.

Sid: Can I do everything that Jesus did?

Larry: Yes, absolutely you absolutely can. It’s 100% legal and here’s the thing Jesus 100% God 100% man He’s our Messiah and He’s also our model for the Christian life.  He showed us what it meant to live a life filled with the Holy Spirit. I don’t think that Jesus really needed out of necessity a baptism of the Holy Spirit but he got one. He was baptized by John the Baptist and so many of us are familiar with that story but Jesus was baptized in the water but He also received a baptism of the Holy Spirit.  Why did He need it? No He was the Messiah God He was the Son of God, but He was from that moment what life could look like as a people as a people as men and women who are living filled with the Holy Spirit. He gave us a model and He gave us an example and that needs to be the standard.

Sid: You have some interesting quotes in your book I guess it came from your studying previous revivals, but one is A.W. Tozer wrote “The devil can handle me but can’t handle the one to whom I’m joined” comment.

Larry: Yes that’s the thing I see when it comes especially when it comes especially to spiritual warfare what I mean by that or when we are dealing with torment, when we are dealing with demonic, when we’re dealing with spiritual forces that are against us that Paul talks about in Ephesians. You know spiritual warfare and I see a lot of Christians today who are wrestling and fighting against a defeated devil. Is he out there still? He absolutely is and he works to try to deceive us and one of the main things that he want to deceive us is out of believing is that believing that the one that lives inside of us is actually greater than the one who is in the world and that that’s the devil. And you know what and this is just some good news for those of you who feel like you’re in spiritual conflict. Keep persevering, fight from victory not for victory because you already have victory in Jesus and the reality is the devil is not the opposite of God. He’s not like God’s arch nemesis where you just never know if God’s going to win or the devils going to win it doesn’t work like that. The devil is actually a created being and Jesus made it possible for him to be stripped of authority. And now we will…Jesus has given us the ability to trample upon the powers of the enemy. So I just encourage people we are to…not go against the devil not to try to fight him in our own ability in our own resources just as people but as we come just as people filled with the Holy Spirit using the word of God he cannot handle that, he cannot handle the One living inside of us.

Sid: Do you need a breakthrough in your life? Of course you do well you’re about to have a breakthrough of epic proportions….When we come back I want Larry to tell about the things he’s working on his Masters studying revivals what a wonderful Masters degree he’s just about finished it but he has some nuggets that are life changing for you.

Sid: I have on the telephone Jayne Griffin wife of Bob Griffin I’m speaking to her at her home in New Boston, Michigan.  Jane I understand a prophet kept telling you over and over again that you were supposed to be married, tell me about that.

Jayne: Yes I had met Bob and we were both in an Easter musical together and we became friends and he started calling me on the phone and prophesying to me we would talk for hours.  He would prophesy to me that you have no idea how quickly your husband is coming you’re going to married by Christmas. And at this time it was September so I had no idea that it would be so soon, but the Lord had already spoken to me that Bob was to be my husband but the Lord hadn’t spoken to him yet.

Sid: And so here this guy is telling you that he knows that you’re supposed to be married and you know that you’re supposed to marry him, so when did the two of you figure out together.

Jayne: (Laughing) It’s interesting because the Lord called us on a 11 day fast and on the 10^th day of the fast Bob said that he heard the Lord speak a word and said “Jayne is to be your helpmate.”  And in his mind he thought “Wow I’m starting a church and she’s going to be a part of it.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Jayne: She’s going to help me and then he had a vision of an umbrella in his hand and it opened up and I walked under it.  And he said “That’s so cool he knows she’s going to be part of my church too you know.”  He had no clue. So we go to celebrate the end of the 11day fast and he shares this with me. And I already know in my heart that we’re supposed to be together but you know I’ve been waiting for God to speak to him so he’s sharing it with me and I say “Do you know what that means?” And he looked at me and he said “No, do you know what it means I don’t know yet?”  And I wasn’t going to say it you know I wanted God to speak to him. So he kept looking back and forth and he’d go I don’t know what it means and I would say “Well I don’t know what it means.” And all of a sudden you see the lightbulb in his head you see it in his face his whole countenance changed and he’s like “Oh okay.” He said “We got to get together tomorrow and pray.” So we got together the next day and prayed and the Lord said “This is your wife” and He gave us Genesis 12:19.” And we’re like “What does that mean?” So he looked it up and it said “Why do you call her your sister for she is your wife take her and go.”

Sid: Hm.

Jayne: And then we got married on 12/19 which was only 5 weeks after the time we got together to pray.

Sid: Now you’ve been married how long?

Jayne: Nine and half years now.

Sid: And you have how many children?

Jayne: Four.

Sid: And I understand your children are pretty prophetic too tell me what’s going on with them.

Jayne: Yes my oldest is Jasmine she’s 8 now, she started having dreams when she was 3 actually the Lord has been speaking to her a lot in dreams.  So we get out a dream book, we encourage everyone to get out a dream book and write down what God is telling them and ask God how to interpret them. So we encourage her to share her dream and Bob would write the dream down.  There was one time when she was 4 and she was going to this K-4 school it was a Baptist Church School and they had show and tell one day. So she said “Mommy I’m going to take my dream book and share what God is telling me.” So she gets to class and the Baptist teacher was just bawling when I got to class and she said “I was so blessed when Jasmine brought her dream book and God has been speaking to her.” So that was real exciting to see that.

Sid: Now one of your children literally saw an oppression that came on Bob.

Jayne:  Yes that was Jasmine when she was 3 or 4. Bob was just really depressed at one point in his life and she walked into the bedroom where he was sleeping and he woke up talked to her.  And she said “Daddy look at the dogs, make the dogs go away.” And he’s like “What honey what are you talking about?” And she said “No there’s dogs all around there.” And so I came down there and we prayed and commanded the spirits of oppression and depression to leave the house.  And she said “Mommy, daddy the dogs are gone, the dogs are gone.” And we went through probably a couple of years after that she would tell me at the church she’d lean over and tell me “Mommy that has a dog following him.”  (Laughing) So it’s just a lot of discernment there and our littlest just recently Bob went upstairs and she was crying in the middle of the night. Rachel was 3 and he picked her and said “It’s okay honey we’ll just pray.” And he prayed that Jesus would be in the room and all of the sudden she said “Move daddy look.” And she was like moving around his head and she said “Look daddy there’s an angel and there’s a little one too, there’s a big one and a little one.” And she said “That’s for me and for you.” It was really cute (Chuckling.)

Sid: Jayne before you married Bob did you move in the prophetic?

Jayne: I had lots of prophetic dreams where the Lord…I felt like I was really in intercession for a lot of things and a lot of people at churches and different people that I knew in my life that I was praying for at work and you know in the secular world. And I had dreams and visions back then and the Lord used me a lot and still does in the physical realm of healing.

Sid: Tell me the first time that God used you in that realm.

Jayne: Oh it was so exciting I was called to be a part of this prayer team and we prayed over these wheelchairs that had cancer and different illness. So I was praying over this one lady that was in a wheelchair that had cancer and the Lord just said “Demand the cancer spirit to leave her and ask her to stand up and walk.” And I did and I said “The Lord wants you to stand up and walk.” And she said “Okay and so she just grabbed my hand and she came right up and she said “I couldn’t do this before, I haven’t done this for 20 years!” So it was really exciting especially for my first time seeing that.

Sid: You tend to hear God’s voice really well, did this just all of a sudden start or is this something you cultivated.

Jayne: I really cultivated I was in a really good Bible believing church and home group and they really encouraged me.  When I first got filled with the Holy Spirit I mean I’ve been saved all of my life I grew up in a Christian home but until I was baptized in the Holy Spirit when I was about 26 that’s when I really fell in love with Jesus. And I went to this church and this home group and they said “Okay I want everyone to pull out a pen and paper in your quiet time everyday and God wants to speak to you and next week I want you to bring it with you and share what God has spoken to you.”  And so this really put the pressure on me “Oh wow I really want to do this and wow God really wants to speak to me?” And so I would pray in the Spirit for hours everyday and it’s like He would give me one word at a time and He would keep encouraging me and it just built up the faith in me and the hunger to want to keep searching after Him and finding out what He’s saying.

Sid: Jayne many times when you have words for people you actually know their first name; when did this start?

Jayne: Yeah when I’m praying for people this happens a lot actually.  It even happened with Bob before we got married I was praying for him he had hurt his ankle I believe it was a ligament he had sprained it really really bad.  The doctor said he’d be in rehab rehabilitation for 2 years; the Lord told him to go to the hospital I’m going to heal you.  So that night he went to the hospital anyway and came home that night and had me come down there and pray for him. I laid my hands on his ankle and I prayed for his healing and the Lord said “He needs to forgive this certain person; He gave me the name.”  And I think it was Mark at the time and “The Lord’s telling me you need to forgive Mark so that you can be healed.”  So he said “Oh I didn’t know I was upset with him” and said “Okay let’s do that.”  He asked God to forgive him and put forgiveness in Mark’s heart for him and the Lord told him to stand up. And so he stood up and he was totally and completely healed; he was running around the church. So He’s given me names when I’m praying for people even with facts. I have a lady just recently and I said “The Lord’s telling me to ask you who Sam is?” And she burst out crying.  And I said, “The Lord’s wanting you to forgive Sam to receive your healing.” And she said “Okay.” And so she prayed and forgave and she said “My back doesn’t hurt anymore I can do this, I can do that.”  And I mean that’s kind of how God uses me with names.

Sid: Any last thought Jane.

Jayne: I just want to encourage people to spend that quiet time that was a valuable, valuable word of wisdom that my home group leader gave me. Get out a pen and paper and spend time with God, write down what He’s telling you, right down your dreams, it’s very, very important to cultivate that relationship and keep it thriving.

Sid: Thank you Jane.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Peter Gammons I’m speaking to him at his office at Orlando, Florida where’s Pastor of Cathedral of Faith and we’re finding out some fascinating things about this man of God. For instance, he was in Brazil and 45 deaf and dumb people were instantly healed during the week of meetings that he had.  Forty-five deaf and dumb I mean this is unbelievable outside of God says “All things are possible to those that believe.” There are people that are listening to us right now Peter that have never seen a miracle.  And I’m believing that before this week is through that you’re going to pray a prayer of faith and that people all over the world are going to be receiving miracles. On yesterdays broadcast you’re a young 17 year old, you went into a church and a man laid hands on you that was around Kathryn Kuhlman just before she died and Kathryn Kuhlman passed her anointing on to this man, what was his name “

Peter: His name was Ed Goev.

Sid: And what did he say to you and what did he do?

Peter: Well as I said we were in the middle of this meeting and when I was singing to God “To God the Glory for great things He’s done.”  And suddenly he said “Stop.” And then he pointed at me and said “You boy come here!” I was terrified I thought I must have done something wrong and God had told him because I never heard of prophecy being positive.  I had heard people talk about how God had exposed sins through prophecy and I couldn’t think of anything I had done so I thought “Oh Lord, what have I done?” And I came forward and he laid hands on me and he prophesied and said “You will take My healing message and My healing Power to the Lord.” And as I mentioned on yesterday’s program it was the same message that this woman had come up to me and said “Peter” and told me this message as I arrived at the meeting. And…

Sid:  But what was going on inside of you when he laid hands on you?

Peter: Oh I just went down in the power of the Holy Spirit I kept trying to get up and going down again.

Sid: Has this ever happened to you before?

Peter: No it was almost unknown in Britain it had not been happening before and suddenly I was overwhelmed by this presence of God. People asked “What it’s like?” It’s like resting in the presence of God it’s the closest thing to heaven on earth. You see our bodies were designed for earth so when heaven touches earth sometimes it’s more than our bodies can contain and we’re just overwhelmed by the presence of God. I don’t use the term “Slain in the Spirit” which sounds an aggressive thing it’s a resting in the Spirit. What happened was that and I got up and went back to my seat at the end of the service this rather large gentleman came up to me and said “Would you pray for me to be filled with the Spirit?” So I’m looking for the preacher because I’m thinking “Well you know I can’t pray for him who am I you know.” And he said “Not him you you’re the one who got the prophecy.” So I touched him and as I touched him to pray for him he went down with the power of the Holy Spirit.  And of course nobody was there to catch him and because he was so big he just knocked everybody flying it was like (imitating sound of explosion) had explosion everybody turned around and seeing me continuing my prayer with this big man laying on the floor.  And that’s how God through me out into the ministry through that very day.  I literally that day had people come up and say “Would you come and preach to our youth group, would you come and preach in our church? Would you come and minister at our home fellowship? (Laughing) the funniest one was do you have any Sunday’s free this year? And I said yeah “Just 52 of them.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Peter: And that’s how God through me out into ministry through that very night in that very empowering with the Holy Spirit.  And as I said this man received the anointing through Kathryn Kuhlman just before she died she prayed for him to receive the anointing.

Sid: Now at what point did miracles start when you began praying for people after that?

Peter: I think it was a meeting that followed on from that event I was invited to a home fellow in a place called Royston near Cambridge which was near where my home was. And there was a man there who had crutches and he was deaf. And in the service I prayed for him and he instantly heard in the services and I believe that that was the first notable miracle.  I had prayed after this with friends and their stomach aches had been healed but nothing that’s significant but he didn’t walk.  Then a week later they telephoned me and they said “You know that man you prayed for he’s thrown away his crutches and bought a bicycle.” And so that was really when miracles began to happen after that event. Another key event happened I ended up in full time ministry because so many invitations that were coming in as an evangelist and I read a book called “Healing on Mass” by Dr. TL Osborn and that transformed my life. Dr. Osborn became one of my closest friends later on but that’s a whole other story. But I read this book how he wasn’t just praying 1 for 1 for people like I had done in the past but that he would pray for a crowd of 1000’s of people then they’d all get healed at the same time in his crusades. And I’d been invited for 2 events one was a crusade in a little town called Huntingdon in England.  We call it a small city in America and I also was invited for a crusade in Africa in Tanzania in a place called Korogwe. And so I was so excited and the local newspapers in Huntington called me and said “What is going to happen in your crusade in Huntington?” Thinking I was going to talk about nice little sermons I was going to preach.  And I was just so on fire after reading this book by TL Osborn I said “The blind are going to see, the death are going to hear, the cripple are going to walk.” And when I said that the woman said “Oh, oh and of course never even reported what I reported that I totally blew her away with such wild claims at that time what was going to happen. And in reality it didn’t happen because they never came to the meeting.  There was only about 10 or 20 people attended the service at that time. Then I went on to Africa I went on to Tanzania went with a missionary who was returning to he was moving back to England and he didn’t want to go alone so he took me with him and said he’d arrange for meetings if I’d go. And we went there and I held this meeting and as I arrived there in my freshly pressed safari suit that my mother had bought me I stood up to speak and there were Muslims in their distinctive Muslim gowns and all of these sick people in a crowd of people there. And I suddenly had a panic attack, I thought “Why should they believe me this little white guy turns up from England telling them they’ve got to leave their other religions and got to follow Jesus why should they believe me?” This doubt came into my heart and suddenly the answer rose up inside of me “Because it’s true because Jesus really is who the Bible says He is because He’s alive.” And without even thinking about it I said these words, “Mohammed is dead, Buddha is dead but Jesus is alive.” But it wasn’t politically correct but it’s what came out of my mouth.  I said then “Jesus is alive,” and then I said “And He’s going to prove it by healing the sick.” I said “All of those that are with someone that is blind…all those that are blind come forward.” And what happened was the local blind…

Sid: You really stuck your neck out I mean “What if no one got healed?”

Peter: Well it’s just what happened I just said it.

Sid: (Laughing)

Peter: I didn’t even think about what I was saying…

Sid: It was a mind bypass (Laughing.)

Peter: Yeah it was words of faith just rose up inside of me.  And that’s been my convection why we need miracles in evangelism, why evangelism without miracles will never reach the world.

Sid: Well what happened at this meeting?

Peter: Well there was this blind man that was walking by behind. Now most of see more people in a day than these tribal people see in a lifetime, they live and marry and die in the same community.  And you know it’s not a case that “I need to pray about who I’m going to marry there is probably only 5 choices so you go for the best of the 5 in these tribal communities.  And so everybody knew this man and he’s been blind from birth and during his lifetime he’d heard about the mountains that were behind me there was a backdrop of beautiful mountains where I was preaching. And they grabbed him and brought him forward and when they brought him forward everyone else stop coming forward for prayer and it was like “Well if it doesn’t work for him we’re not going to bother.” And I prayed for him and I commanded his eyes to be opened in the name of Jesus and that’s why I’ve written this book that you’ll be mentioning later “The Powerful Name of Jesus.”  Because it’s in Jesus name that miracles happen that’s where the power is not in me.  And I command his eyes to be open in Jesus name and he began to jump up and down and shouted “I can see, I can see.” And then he began to describe the mountains which he’d only herd before but now he saw how beautiful they were.  When that happened they started bringing other blind people forward.  They brought forward this little lady and she had a veil over her face and when she took it back all there was was white eyeballs there was no color there at all she was totally blind. And as I prayed for her suddenly I saw color slowly begin to come and they began to get darker and darker until she had the most beautiful turquoise eyes and she could see.  And then I said “I want those that are deaf to come forward and nobody came and I said “I know you’re here.” And somebody said to me “They can’t hear you that’s why they’re not coming forward.”

Sid:  (Laughing)

Peter: And then I said “I want those that are with somebody who’s deaf to bring them forward” and they brought them forward and I prayed for them.  And then I said “Those that are crippled and lame I want someone to bring them forward” and then the people carried them forward. And this is the honest truth at the end of that crusade I went to the pastors and organizers and leaders and I said “Go out among the people and see if you can find anybody that has not been completely and instantly healed.” And they came back and they said “We could not find one person who had not been completely and instantly healed.” And so that’s how our ministry began and we’ve had nearly 30 years of preaching the gospel around the world. And to me I am more shocked when people are not healed then when they are healed. Somebody says “What’s it like when a deaf person hears or a blind person sees?” I’m more shocked if they’re not healed because I’ve just got used to miracles a daily part of life. In this past almost 30 years if I didn’t see an outstanding miracle every day I would not feel that I could go to bed at night I’m used to it. And I believe that that’s one of the things and one of the reasons why God sent us to America to minister just 2 or 3 years ago.

Sid: Peter I can understand that however there are many anointed men and women of God in America and we’re not seeing what you’re describing how come?

Peter: I think that the Body of Christ the Church needs to recognize that there are different gifts and everybody can’t do everything and I believe that this ministry that God’s given us has a place.  And there are some people that has an anointing to get people out of wheelchairs, there are some people that have anointing for that and it’s only as the church acknowledges and utilizes the gifts that God’s given that God’s purpose will be fulfilled.

Sid: Peter we’re out of time right now…

Sid: My guest right here in the studio is John McTernan we’re featuring his brand new book “Israel the Blessing or the Curse.” This book has information that every Christian and non-Christian in America should know because the non-Christians will become Christians and the Christians are going to be red hot for Jesus. I mean if this is not the most amazing thing John where you have proven that every single time, no exception, that the administration of the United States comes against Israel or the Jewish people in some anti-Semitic fashion, or against what God has covenanted within His word. Within 24 hours the first greatest natural disaster in history hit America; the second greatest disaster in history hit America and on and on and on one case after another.  You even pointed out in your book that the 3 greatest natural disasters insurance wise came right after an anti-Israel stance by the United States.

John: Sid I’m looking at a copy of the Washington Post dated October 24, 2001 and this is first page business front page business section and it says “Putting a price on what if’s.” And they list you know for insurance wise how you know what do insurance do with great disasters? And it lists the first 3 disasters and I’ll show them to you…I’m showing them to you Sid. The first one insurance wise is Hurricane Andrew it’s about 20 billion dollars and that occurred exactly precisely as the Madrid Peace Process had been moved from Madrid, Spain to American soil while they were meeting on American soil in Washington, DC. Hurricane Andrew slammed into Florida as the first hurricane disaster America’s ever had.

Sid: And the Madrid Peace Process again is Israeli land for peace.

John: Yeah as we…as they were bargaining so to speak for the land of Israel for the United States our own land was suffering its own natural disaster. The second one was the Northridge Earthquake and that occurred within hours after President Clinton meeting with President Assad of Syria and in a very forceful tone telling Israel it had to give up the Golan Heights for peace. Now we discussed that kind of at length how dangerous that…first of all it’s covenant land that God gave to Israel. Second of all have dangerous militarily that would be for Israel to give up the Golan Heights for quote peace.  And actually the greatest one was 9/11 and I’m showing you that there now. So the first one was 9/11 but that was not a natural disaster that was man made but none the less that’s the greatest disaster. The second one is Hurricane Andrew that was a natural disaster, the third is the Northridge earthquake which was natural disaster. And 9/11 came precisely as we had formulated our policies. The President of the United States formulated a policy that we were going to unilaterally we were going to tell Israel that we were recognizing a Palestinian State with East Jerusalem as the capitol and that we were going to put an Embassy there. Within 2 days of 9/11 we were going to notify the Saudi Arabian Ambassador so he could tell the other Muslim countries. And this was going to be announced at the United Nations on September 23 and of course 9/11 stopped us in our tracks.  And the very terrorist that were attacking Israel and causing Israel to live in terror were now attacking the United States.

Sid: And the thing that is so amazing to me Mishpochah is John also shows in addition to this would have been enough but there are parallels there seems as though there is…it’s just like there is a spiritual bond between true Christians and Jews. There’s something supernatural. You tell me you don’t have a love for the Jew in Israel I think you better check out whether you have the blood of the greatest Jew that ever lived flowing through your veins Jesus. And if you don’t I suggest you get saved. But not only is there that spiritual linkage between true Christians and Jews there is a spiritual linkage between the United States and Israel. Every time something happens in Israel something happens in America, explain.

John: Sid this is really amazing but when you look we’ll go back to the year 2000 and you remember the Camp David meetings?

Sid: Sure.

John: Where Arafat came and we tried to force Israel and the Palestinians into this agreement. And really I’m showing you the headlines here Sid it broke down over Jerusalem.

Sid: Hm.

John: Those agreements failed over Jerusalem because the Palestinians wanted complete control of the Temple Mount and the Israelis would not give it and what happened was two months later in September rioting started in Israel over the Temple Mount as a matter of fact. And right now it’s known as the Al Aqsa intifada. And the Al Aqsa mosque on top of the temple Mount. Now Sid what happened was the Israeli government was destabilized as a result of this fighting. Barak who was the Prime Minister of Israel his government suffered what they call a vote of no confidence.  And it’s a parliamentary type of government it’s a little hard for the Americans to understand but the government exists because it has a vote of confidence amongst its legislators.  When it doesn’t have a vote of confidence it don’t have a government they have to call for elections. So the rioting destabilized the Israeli government; they had a vote of no confidence, they literally had no government although he functions as the head of the government.  Now Sid if I would have told you coming in early 2000 that we wouldn’t have a president elect for 6 weeks because of the election process and that we were going to be destabilized and the election was going to go to the Supreme Court you would say to me “John this is bazaar we’ve got the most stable government in the world.”

Sid: Mashuga you’re crazy.

John: Right wouldn’t you say that?

Sid: Sure.

John: Sid our government was destabilized almost the day to the Israeli government was destabilized.  And see we were the ones that forced Israel into this meeting with Palestinians at Camp David.

Sid: There’s such a spiritual connection tell me another example.

John: Well well let me just finish that because I didn’t even finish that yet it gets even better because while the Israeli government was destabilized…

Sid: Right.

John: When they finally came and I want to show you these here these articles. While the Israel government became stabilized is when they agreed to have elections. Okay?

Sid: Hm.

John: So here we go…

Sid: So it’s parallel after parallel.

John: Israel Prime Minister says he will resign December 10, 2000.  Divided US court orders freeze on foreign account. A couple of days later the Supreme Court voted for George Bush and he became President. So the Israeli government was destabilized a couple of days later our government was destabilized. The Israeli government stabilized when they held elections and a couple of days later our government was stabilized and the Supreme Court ruled President Bush became you know the President elect.  It almost to the day it was almost about maybe a week over lap on each end.  Now who would ever think that the most stable democracy in the world would be destabilized like that but not only was it destabilized we were destabilized exactly during the time the Israeli government was destabilized.

Sid: Give me another example of the parallel.

John: Well starting at this point in September of 2000 right on Rosh Hashanah the intifada started and Israel was being subjected to horrific terrorism. Now there always has been terror incidents in Israel but horrific. I mean we could go example after examples of suicide bombers going into pizza parlors and going into disco techs and I mean just horrendous killings snipping and all of that. Well almost a year to the day because in Israel it started on September 28, 2000.  On September 11^th of 2001 the very same element of terrorists that were attacking Israel now are attacking the United States. We were under attack just like Israel was.  And Sid it gets even deeper Jerusalem has become the center of these terrorist attacks in Israel. Jerusalem’s the Capitol of Israel; the United States became the center in New York. But the United States Washington became the center of the attack as one of those planes attacked the Pentagon.   From what I understand it flew directly at the White House. They thought the plane was coming directly at the White House and it went and hit the Pentagon. So Israel’s Capitol Jerusalem is under attack by these terrorist and the United States Capitol Washington DC is under attack by virtually the same elements suicide terrorists, amazing Sid.

Sid: You know Mishpochah if this was all there was it would be amazing but just like every time the United States the administration comes against Israel within 24 hours there’s a tragedy in America. There parallels are over and over and over again. John your book “Israel the Blessing or the Curse” why in your heart of heart’s did you write this?

John: Sid I wrote that to in my heart to wake the church up to support Israel. And I also wrote it Sid because many Jews are ignorant of the covenant that they have how important the land is Sid. And I wrote that to encourage the nation of Israel to stand on that covenant in face of what we’re doing, in face of what the United Nations is doing in face of the world to stand on that covenant and have the God of Israel defend them.  Also that the church would understand the importance of that covenant and stand beside the Jewish people.

Sid: You know I believe that this is going to be the churches greatest hour you know Paul says that there are literally spiritual scales on the eyes of Jewish people. I believe the acts of love by the church standing up bold for the Jewish people in Israel at this point are going to be equivalent to what Queen Esther did to spare the Jewish people and it’s going to release one of the greatest revivals the world has ever seen.

Sid:  My guest by telephone Dr. Dell Sanchez unbelievable what we’ve been talking about this week. He has gathered a list of 6,000 Spanish names that have Jewish blood. Where did you get these names from Dell?

Dell: Oh, many of them were the compilation Sid from many resources, many archives and documents across the South Western states of the US.

Sid: Tell me one, tell me one place that you got it from?

Dell:  One place, oh my goodness, one place was a University of Texas here in San Antonio.

Sid: How would they have it?

Dell: A very famous one is the archives that are especially put together in the University of Arizona in Tucson a tremendous collection there.

Sid: Now if someone reads this list that’s Spanish Hispanic the 6,000 names they were to find their name there what would the probability be that they do have Jewish blood and their ancestors were among those that fled the inquisitions in Mexico, or the US, or Spain?

Dell: Based on my research Sid and really being a careful observer of these matters there a high probability that they had Jewish blood particularly given the situation of their historical background where their grandparents were born, how they got over here to the New World from Spain.

Sid: Let’s pick up right there for a moment we were talking on yesterday’s broadcast about Columbus and 1492 but you have a very interesting history in which there were 3 very wealthy Spanish Jews that had a private meeting with the King and Queen just before the mandate that they leave by 1492.  Tell me about that meeting.

Dell: Yes.  There were 3 Sephardic extremely wealthy Jews, extremely noble Abrabanel, Santangel, and Sanchez. They were there trying to persuade and to bribe the King Ferdinand and the Queen Isabella not to go ahead with the expulsion decree that is of expelling the Jews from Spain.  So they offered from this untold amount of money. Now a lot of people giggle when they say “Queen Isabella sold her jewels” to finance Christopher Columbus voyages when actually she sold her Jews, los Judios, the Jews. So these 3 Sephardic men were the ones that actually funded the voyages of Christopher Columbus.

Sid: So it was Jewish money that funded Columbus found the New World.

Dell: Exactly.

Sid: And he thought he found India and that’s why he called the inhabitants Indians a lot of people don’t know that that’s where Indians got their name.

Dell: Exactly, exactly. It was a providential act of God that God raised up if you will a man, a Gideon in that land that was in this case Columbus to be able to bus out of Spain wave after wave, after wave, after wave of Spanish speaking…

Sid: But these 3 wealthy Jews they really wanted royal decree that the Jews would not be expelled what did the King and Queen decide? Obviously they were expelled but what happened?

Dell: Good question because ease dropping behind the chamber door you know of this private meeting between King, Queen and these 3 wealthy Jews was Tomas De Torquemada, was the the Inquisitor General and he was the personal confessor of Queen Isabella like Católica, she’s known as Isabella the Catholic. When he heard that the King and Queen were going to ahead and go not expel the Jews from Spain, he dashes through the door waving his crucifix say now you know ranting and raving and you know saying “Now the blood of these Jews will be on your hands,” so they reneged instead of going ahead.

Sid: Did they take the money?

Dell: Yes they took and they went ahead and they still expelled the Jews Sid.

Sid: Huh. What a curse over a country to do something like that and the way you’ve explained the torture the Jews had in that country.  You know it reminds me, and this might surprise you of Argentina and the reason it reminds me of Argentina, is Argentina has had the longest standing revival I think in history and yet the country is economically going under. So the pastors got together and they had a prayer meeting why is this happening in a country with such revival?  And they don’t know well I know, I know because Argentina took in a lot of money, it was called gold teeth and where did they get this gold? From the Nazis that they were harboring and that’s why that curse has hit Argentina. But what I would like to find out from you, and very few people in America is the inquisition the torturing of Jews jumped from Spain to Mexico and parts of the United States.

Dell: Yes.

Sid: How did that happen?

Dell: Well what happened is that the Jews the Sephardic Jews were called in Spain and Iberia the la gente prohibida, meaning the prohibited people.  The prohibited people of the what, the prohibited people of prohibited from coming across the Atlantic into the New World. They were not supposed to they could be anywhere else but not into the New World. So they began to discover early in the 1500’s that we were multiplying our people, Sephardim was multiplying and quite successful. Well how did they get here and what were they doing. Well what occurred quickly in the early 1500’s I’d say by 1515, 1520 the Franciscans was sent by the order of the Spanish inquisition to establish a Mexican inquisition high tribunal in Mexico City, but also one, subsequent to this in Lima, Peru, and one in the Inca, Columbia.

Sid: But how did they know that there was so many of these Spanish Jews that went there didn’t they hide the fact they were Jewish?

Dell: Well the fact is they’re were a lot of crypto Jews, they were actually they thought that they’d have full freedom over here as much as Don Reese’s family, his sister, his nieces and nephews, they thought they’d have the real liberty of just continue with their Jewish lifestyle over here in the New World.  But…

Sid: And they never thought again it’s so parallel to the blacks in America when the blacks thought they were safe because they came to the north and then the slave trader act was past and they could come to the north and get them it was very parallel.

Dell: Exactly, yes so what happened is that quickly they have to become what’s called Crypto Jew, Jews in secret. You know by day they are Catholic and by night and in secrecy they are Jewish. You know so that’s what occurred, now in the process there’s another term now here more of recently I may add is that many of our own Jewish Sephardic people are saying are acknowledging themselves not so much as Marrano okay as a Marrano, but Anosim. I have been in Israel…

Sid: What is Anosim mean?

Dell: And they asked me who are you, what’s the link of your Jewish heritage. I say I’m Anosim they immediately know to have been one of those that’s been forced, that has been coerced, manipulated and as a people raped. They immediately embrace me, that mean embrace my people as one of their own brothers and sisters.

Sid:  Now when the inquisitors so to speak from Spain came hunting Jews in Mexico and these other places what happened when they found them did they have any rights there?

Dell:  What happened is that some of them had some rights like for intense Don Reese had right of this huge amount of territory owed by some of my fellow scholars as known as the tragic square. It’s the big huge square of course I don’t think it was exactly a square, but what happened is when they discovered when the Catholic inquisitors then transferred power to the Dominicans within 5 to 7 years after they took control. They fueled the inquisitional fires, la jasoheras, that burns at the stake. They just fueled the investigations and the tortures so that…

Sid: They burned Jews at the stake?

Dell: Yes! Yes they were burning…

Sid: The same type of torture that went on in Spain?

Dell: The same thing was happening in Spain was happening here in Mexico City.  And they were fetching the Sephardim from all across Mexico.  Remember many of them came north as far north as possible away from the high tribunal Mexico City. So much so that they had to come, and as I said the earlier end of the broadcast come across the river away from the Republic of Mexico into Texas, New Mexico.

Sid: But you told me they weren’t even safe there!

Dell: They weren’t even safe there; what happened is that this is what has occurred in the Spirit of God was revealing to me and I didn’t have the documented fact up until last year. I had this you call it theory it was more of a revelation of the Spirit of the Living God Sid that there was something wrong. In fact if I may add we were in a major mission we were in a conference God gave me an open vision in Soul Korea and open vision of a mission of a Spanish mission. And I thought “What in the world is going on?” There was a lot of details to this vision we were attending a conference with Dr. Paul Yonggi Cho in Sole Korea. And God gave me this open vision in fact I shared this vision with my people and Robert Rodriguez, an old friend of mine, painted the object of this Spanish mission.  But I didn’t know what that meant; I didn’t know Sid for years and years I didn’t know why God would show me a mission in a typical territory of the Southwestern part of the United States or Northern Mexico.  And I thought that it meant maybe I had a mission in life such as television ministry or etcetera but low and behold I discover by the Holy Spirit revealing to me that very missions became eyes of spies. The missions if you trace them…

Sid: I’ll tell you what Dell it’s too important hold that thought will pick up here on tomorrows broadcast.