SID: So LaDonna is literally starving to death. Her colon, it’s dead for all practical purposes, nine surgeries in 90 days, the 10^th coming up to remove her colon. She’ll never be the same. And it’s such a battle that she’s going through, and she’s wearing out. But she just happens to see the television show she did, It’s Supernatural. Her faith starts soaring. She’s praying for other people, but it still is quite a battle. And at one of her worst moments, 11:30 p.m., and she’s had about all she can handle, 11:30 p.m., she gets a phone call. Why did you even answer at 11:30 p.m.?

LADONNA: That’s a very good question. I thought about not answering. I didn’t recognize the number. But when I said, “Hello”, I heard the voice of my pastor. He identified himself, “This is John Kilpatrick.” And this is what he said, “God told me to call you and to tell you you’re coming out of that bed.” And he said, “Today, you hit breakthrough.” I’m telling you that are watching me and you hear today anybody within the sound of your voice, today you hit breakthrough. He also said, “You may not know it and you may not feel it, but you’re healed. Things are going to be different now. It’s your time. You’re going to fully recover. Now go to sleep and when you open your eyes tomorrow it’s going to be a new day.”

SID: You know, the question I have is, I agree. I agree. How would you like a word like that and you’re starving to death. You’re ready for your last surgery, they’re going to remove your whole colon, your life is never going to be the same. And she gets this call. But the question I have for you, LaDonna, how did he call you at 11:30 p.m.? What kind of pastor is he?

LADONNA: You know, I know Pastor Kilpatrick and he will obey God. And I know why. Because he heard God’s voice.

SID: That’s all you need.

LADONNA: That’s right.

SID: All you need is a word from God. She had a word from God. So what happened after the word?

LADONNA: In five hours, well he said, “Close your eyes and when you open your eyes tomorrow will be a new day.” My stomach that was distended was down two-thirds the next morning. I knew what he meant when he said, “When you open your eyes it will be a new day,” because every day X-ray opened my eyes. The X-ray technicians would come in and they’d roll the machine in, and take a picture of right in my abdomen and it’s different. I looked down and when my opened my eyes, and my stomach was down two-thirds. I knew the picture was going to be different. In four days, the doctor said, go home.

SID: Go home. Did you hear that? This is, look at the hand of God. God moved you desperately. So when you left the hospital you picked up your violin for the first time maybe since the TV show, the last TV show. And what was the first song you played?

LADONNA: The theme throughout my suffering was, Jesus doesn’t love you like you thought he did. So I got my violin and I said, listen to this one, devil. And I played, “Jesus Loves Me”.

SID: Well I tell you what, LaDonna, I’m going to release you to go to the music set. But tell me the truth, between you and me.

LADONNA: Okay.

SID: Does Jesus really love you?

LADONNA: How he loves me. But he loves you and he loves everyone listening to us. He loves us. There is someone listening to us right now and they doubted that. But the Lord is touching your heart. And even more, he’s going to get in these notes and he’s going to really reveal himself to them.

SID: I can’t wait. Would you go to the music set. And I’m going to tell you something. When LaDonna plays this, I can just picture that. Can you picture the first time she played this after coming off the deathbed, starving to death? I’m going to tell you, Jesus really loves you. You’ll feel it as she plays this now.

Sid: Now one of the things that is so frequently mentioned to me is that “I have dreams, lots of them, but I got to the point that they’re all symbolic and I don’t know what they mean and I don’t want to guess.” And then we have other people saying “I’m not just sure if I’m hearing God’s voice or not” or “I don’t hear God’s voice.” So I’ve really been looking forward to interviewing Laura Harris Smith. And Laura I love the title of your book “Seeing the Voice of God.” You kind of do a double take on that.

Laura: (Laughing)

Sid: How in the world did you get into helping believers understand their dreams, hear the voice of God; how did that happen?

Laura:   Hmm, well I oh I guess it was about 20 years ago I was freshly baptized in the Holy Spirit and I was going through a season in life, but I think it’s common to most people that you’re not hearing the voice of the Lord or you think that you’re not and you know you’re in a spiritual like a hearing drought of sorts. So basically my husband had stepped out of a very lucrative job to move into ministry and we had 5 children at the time and we needed a word from God on where we were going to go from there. We thought we knew we had tried that out nothing was succeeding and we doubted ourselves and Him and everything else. So you know I began to notice on bookstore shelves all these books entitled “When God is Silent” and “What to Do When God is Silent,” and it just grieved me. I thought “How can God have a mute button? How could He really withhold communication with His children?” And so I got on my knees that night Sid and I just said “Lord, I have to have a word from You; You must speak to me.” And I finally heard something and it was the oddest phrase; it was 5 days; days and instantly He downloaded this plan into me to get away for 5 days and read the Bible in 5 days. My father had a prayer cabin; he opened his doors for me to just come down there; my husband graciously took care of the 5 kids and I read through the Bible. Not to study Greek or Hebrew, or chew on anything but just to answer the question; “Is God ever silent?” And Sid, I never found one verse saying that He’s silent; I found plenty of verses like “If I regard iniquity in my heart He will not hear me.” But none that God wanted to be silent. And so what that made me do was set me on a quest to discover why we sometimes can’t hear Him if He’s always talking. The first thing that happened was I noticed he began to bypass my ears and go straight for my eyes. I started having dreams and visions and really seeing the voice of God.

Sid: You know what’s kind of interesting; I recently interviewed Randy Clark and he operates on what is called in the Bible “Words of knowledge.” But he went out to Africa and the Christians there explained they got most of their information through their dreams. And it’s like he never even thought about it. And now I’m reading your materials and you make a statement that just knocks you out so to speak. You spend a third of your life sleeping; now if you spend a third of your life sleeping look at a waste if you’re not communicating with God.

Laura: I know, I know it’s so true and people who say “Oh, I never dream” that’s why I wanted to include the two medical chapters, chapters 4 and 5 where I interviewed a sleep study doctor and I sighted all type so of studies on sleep and dream cycles. So yes you are having between 4 to 6 ream dream cycles each night; rapid eye movement cycles. And each one of those 4 to 6 cycles you’re having 4 to 6 dreams. So you’re having somewhere between 16 and 36 dreams every single night. So yes, if you spend a third of your life in bed then by age 75 you’ve slept for 25 years. You know that comes out to almost a million dreams. So the question isn’t “Why am I not dreaming?” the question is “Why am I not remembering my dreams?” And that’s why chapter 5 is called “Dream recall” and it’s why I go into all of the vitamins and minerals. And I interviewed or sighted studies from real experts that can give us insight into how we can remember our dreams; there’s a way to do it. (Laughing)

Sid: Now let me ask you a personal question.

Laura: Okay.

Sid: When I have dreams I do remember them the minute I have them but if I don’t write it down I’m going to forget it, and if I write it down it’s too much energy and I I’m afraid I won’t be able to go back to sleep. Do you have any help for me?

Laura:   Ah that’s good. Yes, actually I quote Sigmund Fraud in the book which could be controversial. You know he was Jewish by birth and atheist by choice; I can’t imagine having those roots and coming to that decision point in my life. But we did agree on one thing and that is “If you do not journal or somehow process the dream immediately after you receive it it will eventually be added to, embellished, and changed entirely. James Gall who wrote the forward for my book has this expression “Stewarding revelation.” I swipe that all the time and say “You must steward revelation well; if you do not you’re likely to lose it. I would suggest for you to keep a little voice recorder by the bed or maybe there’s one on your phone and I also have found that if I just keep a pen and pad by the bed if I just lean over in the dark and I just scribble 4 or 5 of the symbols the dream comes back to me the next morning.

Sid: That sounds good because then I’ll remember the dream but I don’t remember the intricate details that I would have if I had written it down.

Laura: Sounds like you have what a lot of people want really detailed dreams. (Laughing)

Sid: I do (Laughing). Okay, so tell me… that’s a pretty interesting thing I’ve been reading statistics about how many people are having insomnia, either not being able to fall asleep, or wake up frequently during the night. Also people that say “I don’t dream.” Have people followed the vitamins and the regimen you suggest and have been able to sleep better and remember their dreams?

Laura:   Yes, I’m so happy to say yes. And the examples that I site in the book are not from just silly college USA. They are studies from places like John Hopkins University, and Mayo Clinic. And I really wanted to in addition to that though have some personal examples. So I used myself as a guinea pig and found the research to be true. And yes, I am finally starting to hear testimonies even reading some of the reviews on line of people who’ve tried specific regimens and are remember their dreams. And so I’m wiping my brow and saying “Thank you Lord it truly is… it’s a fact if we take care our bodies, if we use the things that God created on day 3 of creation because I also go into the essential oils and herbal teas you can take and that type of thing then we’ll be our healthiest and we’ll sleep our best.

Sid: I have to believe that you’re conclusion is correct because that’s my conclusion from the Bible and that is God’s great desire is to communicate with us. What would you say is the major reason that people have discounted their dreams and say “I never hear from God?”

Laura:   (Laughing) Well, you know Job 33 starting in verse 14 says “God may speak in one way or in another yet man does not perceive it in a dream, in a vision of the night when deep sleep falls upon men; when slumbering on their beds then He opens the ears of men and seals their instruction.” But those words right there in the middle; “Man does not perceive it.” Those are the saddest verses, amongst the saddest in the entire Bible to me to think that God is trying to talk to you. Or back up a minute; you’re begging God to talk to you… He talks to you and then you can’t take yes for an answer. (Laughing) It’s like He’s trying to communicate to you and I want to add emphatically right here that dreams and visions are not a gift of the Spirit; they’re not a badge of maturity or arrival they’re mere communication with God. And communication with God is the birth-rite of every believer.

Sid: Well, I have to believe where we are in history because I had a dream in which I was told 3 times “Jesus is returning soon.” So if there’s ever been a time to hear God it has to be now.

Laura: Hmm, hmm absolutely and you know our ears get clogged for so many different reasons and I do go into those in the book. I actually start out I think it’s chapter 8 by saying “I’d be a bad friend if I spent…” I say something like “We spend about 40,000 words thus far discussing your eyes and that’s about 20,000 per eye and I’d be a bad friend though if I didn’t discuss your hearing, your spiritual hearing and why you’re not hearing God.” So it is definitely a relevant topic; I told you in the very beginning story that when I needed to hear God I got away and solved that question in my mind about how He’s never silent. Then He began giving me dreams and visions but look at what else happened to me and it’s common to many people because we just read it in Job 33. He says “He speaks in through those visions” and then it says “Then He opens the ears of men.” So see sometimes and this is what happened to me I started having all of the dreams and visions and then my daytime ears got opened too. So He speaks through dreams and visions if we’ll perceive that it not only helps us to receive communication from him when we’re sleeping, but then as we’re awake our ears have become opened too. It’s just win, win I…

Sid: But you know what I believe, I believe that you have…when someone has a victory in some area in the spirit then they can pray for other people. And you have prayed so many impartations over the 3 CD set we call “Twenty, Twenty Hearing” and then your book “Seeing the Voice of God.” And the DVD “Ten of the Most Frequently Asked Questions on Dreams and Visions.” And as far as I’m concerned when someone finishes this entire series and starts asking God for dreams and starts following. I mean you even have a dream dictionary of 1000 symbols. Oh, we’re out of time…

Sid: My guest James Durham says that according to the word of God and according to his experience everyone can visit the throne room as often as they want once they break through to that level. But you know James you provoke me to jealousy; I knew nothing about Jesus; nothing about the invisible world. And you as a matter of fact knew nothing about it except… I mean you came from a nominal; a very nominal Christian background so you had no paradigm at 3 years of age but what happened to you?

James: I was in bed at night and just suddenly I was in a different place; it was an unknown place to me but it was a beautiful place; it was a peaceful place. I saw animals that normally would be enemies lying down together in peace.

Sid: And that’s what the Bible says in the millennium is going to occur.

James: Yes that’s correct. I just suddenly realized that I was in heaven and it was wonderful. I felt such a deep peace in my own heart and I just felt like I was at home; and this was a great blessing for me at that age. That’s primarily of what I remember.

Sid: What’s your family think of this I mean being nominal; what was their opinion?

James:   They were not very accepting of this and they thought that I was making it up and that I was not telling the truth and that I was exaggerating and I was chastised for talking about it.

Sid: So at age 6 you’re going to Bible camps and you’re hearing about Jesus but just before you became a believer you had a vision of hell.

James: That’s correct. I was in a service of worship and suddenly it was as if the floor in front of me opened wide open and flames literally I saw them leaping up from the floor in front of me. And I knew that this from the things that I’d been taught in the Vacation Bible School that this was hell and I was sitting right on the edge of it. I knew that if I didn’t make the right choice the right decision that I could just fall into that.

Sid: You know being so young and not having parents that are pushing you there that must have been… and actually thinking that you were making up the vision you had this whole time on your life must have been pretty confusing to you.

James:   It was confusing but it was also very comforting because I knew that there was reality beyond what I was experiencing.

Sid: Then your parents didn’t try to talk you out of it. (Laughing)

James: (Laughing) Well they talked me out of talking about what I was experiencing.

Sid: Ah, okay; but then with the experiences you had I mean so sovereign from God when you were age 17 your father is dying and you make a deal with God. You say “God if you let my father live I will become a minister and preach the gospel and your father died.” What affect did it have on you?

James: It was a great disappointment in my heart and I think I went through a time of disillusionment and actually I pulled away for the church. My experiences for a time; I had a lot of anger and disappointment inside of me, made it very difficult for me to feel that closeness to God that I’d felt before.

Sid: But at 17 God in His mercy God did not give up on James Durham. At 17, even though he turned from the things of God, when he reached 21, interesting age, age of accountability so to speak. You reach 21 and you have an audible call to the ministry from God; what was that like?

James: That was just an overpowering kind of experience. I was sitting in a church worship service and I heard God speak to me and He asked me “What was really important to me.” And I think in those years of separation I had gone after the wrong things and as I thought about things in my own mind I brought up some things that might be important like becoming famous; becoming wealthy; having a political influence. But none of those seemed like they were appropriate in this moment with God and I finally came to a conclusion; the only thing for me was to serve Him with my whole life; my whole heart forever.

Sid: Now what were His exact words to you the audible voice?

James: At first was “What was really important to you.” And after I made that choice He said to me “There is nothing else.”

Sid: Meaning?

James: That other than serving Him I’d made the choice I will serve you the rest of my life and as soon as I said that I heard the Lord say “There is nothing else.”

Sid: So you go to Asbury Seminary and this kind of surprises me at Asbury Seminary you received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit; were they teaching you on this?

James: They did actually teach some things in the course about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but my experience was apart from that. I was sitting in the living room of my home at that time and I just had a desperate hunger for God and I cried out and I said “I want to have the kind of experience that I read John Wesley had had of being overcome by the Holy Spirit and feeling the fire of God in his heart.” And I wanted to have that; I wanted to have something in my heart not just something in my head. And as soon as I cried out to God this came to me; I just felt a presence over me and fire came into me and something in me just was burned away and changed in my life.

Sid: Help me out, when someone says fire be more descriptive; what do you mean by fire!

James: Fire! It was like fire (Laughing) it wasn’t like the fire I saw when I was 6 years old, but it was like the presence and the power of God and it came with a supernatural heat. It just permeated my body with this warm that seemed to be changing things in me burning away the things that need to go and strengthening, purifying the things that needed to be refined in me.

Sid: Did you speak in a supernatural language at that time?

James:   Not at that moment; no I didn’t.

Sid: When did that start?

James:   That started much later; actually I didn’t start speaking in a supernatural language knowingly until I was… 2008.

Sid: Okay, but something new started going on in your life; you started operating in what the Bible refers to as words of knowledge and it’s been doing nothing but getting stronger. As a matter of fact did God give you any words of knowledge for our audience?

James:   Yes, the Lord says that there’s an anointing today for healing and when I came in today I felt the presence of a healing angel. The Lord said that “Today there’s an anointing for healing the throat.” If any kind of ailment in the throat, it could be a virus or some sort of disease, even cancer of throat could be healed today. I heard the Lord said that “Necks are being healed today that people that have sinus infection that it’s available today; the Lord is healing people today of chronic sinus infections that are just going to go (snaps fingers) like that, in Jesus Name.

Sid: Now when you have a word do you normally pray after the word or just speaking the word does it; how does that operate?

James: Well I usually speak the word and then pray.

Sid: Why don’t you pray right now for those conditions.

James:   Okay, well Father God we ask right now in the Name of Yeshua that you would just release that healing angel to be with anyone who needs any of these healings; Lord the healing of the throat; let the power of Your healing ministry come through the touch of that angel and heal the throats of anyone who needs that And Lord I saw people with problems in their spine and their neck and that they desperately need a healing and relieved of pain and set free; so Lord I ask the healing angel touch their neck and let the fire of that touch restore the spine and heal the problems with the neck. And Lord the chronic sinus infections I know those are not of you those of the enemy and so we ask in the name of Yeshua haMashiach that those would be completely healed and that all inflammation would be gone that all pressure headaches would be gone and that there would be a total complete healing in the name of Yeshua; Amen and Amen.

Sid: Now, you teach from Ephesians chapter 2 verse 6 about being in the Throne Room, explain that.

James: Well Ephesians 2:6 says “Were seated with Him in heavenly places.” Everything in that verse is in the past tense and I believe that we have a seat there but many of us have never seen it; we have not claimed our Biblical authority to go there and visit. But I just stand on the promises of the word and I just claim it for myself and I claim it for you; that you have a seat in heaven. If you are in Jesus Christ you have a seat with Him in heaven and the Holy Spirit can take you there.

Sid: James what kind of feedback are you getting from people that read the books and sit under the teaching on the 3 CD’s?

James: I hear from people in the meetings that we conduct through email messages; I receive one this morning; a woman who was set free to visit in the 3^rd heaven herself. And I hear people now making multiple visits after they’ve read the book or they’ve been in the teaching seminars that we do.

Sid: …I have to tell you I can’t think of anything more important in this day we’re living in if you can have access to the 3^rd heaven, access to getting your answers to the questions you’re pondering right in the secret place it to me it’s fascinating. James goes to heaven to the Throne Room to the very secret place often and gets information. God has commissioned him to teach the past tense of God’s word that we are already seated at the right hand of God the Father with Jesus. Jesus is at the right hand and we are seated in Him, therefore, we can have such intimacy. And he has special teaching CD’s and 2 books “Beyond the Ancient Door” and “7 Levels of Glory” and this is how to book. The CD’s are prayers of impartation and the books will show you how there’s 7 levels in which God wants to reveal Himself to you through His glory. And there’s 7 levels in which God draws you up to Him in His glory all things are possible.

Sid: There’s a wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles, but there’s even a greater wall of separation today between Jews and Christians and I think one of the most graphic presentations of this to me. And it’s about ready to change to me Mishpochah is that some in the traditional Jewish Community fought so hard to stop the movie “The Passion,” Mel Gibson’s movie from playing. And that’s only because they don’t understand what has occurred. But very soon I believe that so many back slidden Gentile Christians are going to see that movie and come to the Lord, and many have already; that they are going to get red hot for Jesus and then do the major purpose of your salvation. The major purpose of your salvation is found in Roman’s 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.” Why? Because Jesus said “He came to break down the middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile to form One New Man in Messiah. And that’s why Amos says that when the Tabernacle, or that stands for the house, and the house stands for the family in Hebrewism. When the family of David, or the Jewish people are restored to God; obviously through Messiah; Amos in the last chapter says the rest of the Gentiles will come in. So I believe that the reason Mel Gibson did the movie “The Passion” and the reason that Dr. Bree Keyton did her book, and she’s my guest this week, “The Passion What Does it Mean?” And the reason that Bree did her songs on the strips of the Messiah that people are getting marvelously healed from is so that Gentile Christians can be red hot for Jesus and do what Jesus commands Gentile Christians to do, “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy;” to share the gospel is all occurring. Mel Gibson doesn’t have a clue, but his movie and the book “The Passion What Does it Mean” all occurred so that Jewish people could be saved. This is what Amos says “So the rest of the Gentles can come in.” That’s God’s plan because He so loves the whole world. And I have Dr. Bree Keyton on the telephone, I’m speaking to her in her home in Kansas City, Missouri. About her book called “The Passion, What Does it Mean?” And Bree what is happening when people for the first time understand what the passion means, but even more so can see it through Jewish eyes as opposed to say in the movie by Mel Gibson through Catholic eyes. What is happening when people read this book?

Bree: The people that have contacted me after reading the book, and it’s only been out a short time. I am getting calls from people saying “I read this and I was so thrilled to see all that Jesus took for me and how He suffered for me that I gave my life to Him that I became born again.” And the book of course, the purpose was to show people the majesty and the glory of all that Jesus took for us.

Sid: Now it was really birthed out a vision that you had in May of 1993. The big objection that I hear people that have seen Mel Gibson’s movie is “It’s too violent, it did not have to be that violent.” But tell me about the vision you had in May of 1993 and maybe that will address some of those critics.

Bree: The vision I saw was startling, it was horrific, it was graphic, and Jesus was being beaten as He was receiving those stripes before He went to the cross. I mean it was bloody, much like Mel Gibson’s movie.

Sid: Well you saw the movie, which had more suffering; which was bloodier your vision or Mel Gibson’s movie?

Bree: Actually my vision was so bloody that I was looking at this thing that God showed me with horror; it took me 3 days to recover from what I saw. The Lord spoke to me and said “Write a song and I will heal My people.” So I wrote this song stripes with 39 whip cracks in it.” And literally 1000’s of people have been saved and healed just listening to this song. We’ve had people get up out of wheelchairs; we’ve had the dumb speak, we’ve had deaf ears open, blind eyes open. People with back trouble have been healed. And on and on this goes, lots of heart trouble healed because what I do is I call out diseases and the second the people hear that it’s like the sovereign hand of God reaches in and heals them on the spot.

Sid: What happened when they hear that crack? What happened to Jesus literally and spiritually?

Bree: Each whip cracks that He took healed us; there’s actually been doctors that have said that there is 39 categories of disease in the world today. And we believe and I believe with all of my heart according to scripture that says “By His stripes we were healed.” I believed that with every stripe healed us; literally healed us. We’ve had people driving down the street in their car just listening to this and they just get healed driving in their car; we can always tell where they’re playing this on their radio because the radio gets flooded with phone calls.

Sid: Okay, I want to hear this song it’s called “Stripes.”

Stripes Worship Excerpt.

Sid: That was Bree Keyton my guest on the air right now; I’m interviewing her on her book and CD “The Passion, What Does it Mean?” Tonight is erev Pesach, the evening of Passover begins. Bree how is Passover a foreshadow of the Messiah?

Bree: It really began in Egypt when the Hebrew children were told to kill a lamb and to put its blood over their doorpost and then of course the death angel would pass them by. That’s the death angel of the 10^th curse that came upon Egypt that was to slaughter the first born of Egypt. If they put this blood on this doorpost the death would pass them by and they were to completely consume this lamb. And we know that they walked out of Egypt completely healed. How does that apply? Well, they began the feast of Passover every year after that as you know. And what they would do is that they would a lamb; they would put it on a spit in the shape of a cross and they would roast it and completely consume it. So that when they walked out of Egypt the land of sin and wickedness and compromise; we too could put the blood of Jesus on the doorposts of our hearts and walk out of sin and compromise into the Kingdom of the Living God in the Name of Jesus shed blood. Now the Hebrews when they walk out of Egypt were completely healed, it says everybody walked out of there healed. Now that’s a miracle right there; when we accept Jesus and the blood He shed for us we walk out of the land of sin and compromise; the land of wickedness into the land of the living. That is we accept the living lamb of God as our sacrifice. And His blood goes over the doorpost of our hearts and we are completely healed in Him. Now Passover is a marvelous picture; you know as a Jew that you’ve celebrated Passover you’re whole life and what a marvelous shadow picture it is of the living God. Every year just before sundown they would kill a lamb each house in Egypt and then they would have their Passover meal. Now Jesus Himself was killed just before sundown hanging on that cross, and He was put in the grave just before sundown. They had to hurry because Passover was beginning and they couldn’t do any work on the Passover they were to rest because it was also a Sabbath. Now Jesus as He hung on the cross He spoke forth words, the same words that were mirrored by the High Priest on the Temple Mount.

Sid: I’ll tell you what; hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast….

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to sense the urgency to share the good news with the people that God has supernaturally cross your path. I have on the telephone a new friend. When I say a new friend it’s because I met him in person really for the first time and we had lunch a few weeks ago. His name is Gordon Robertson, and you’re probably familiar with him because you see him every day on the 700 Club. His father is Pat Robertson and Gordon and I had lunch in Virginia Beach a few weeks ago. I got a chance to meet him and guess what I found out Mishpochah, he’s the same off the air as on the air, I like that it’s called being real. Gordon I want to take you back way back when just a child, but I read your dad’s life story “Shout it From the Rooftops.” And there was one thing that stuck like oatmeal on my ribs, and that was one weekend your dad was reading the Bible and the Lord told him to sell everything he had. So he just gave away everything in the apartment without consulting your mother who was away for the weekend. I’m just curious that is such an amazing thing what your dad did and of course history testifies God honored that. But tell me what you think your mother really and truly did when she came home and found the apartment empty.

Gordon: Well she wanted to kill him.

Sid: (Laughing)

Gordon: I don’t have to tell you what I think, I know. She was with her parents in Columbus, Ohio with the children. There was just 3 of us that that point in time. Dad called her up and said “I’ve been reading the Bible and I feel God’s telling me to do something, and he didn’t tell her what. And she just sort of responded, “Well that’s nice dear it’s always good to do God wants you to do.” And came home and everything had been sold and all of the money had been given to the poor. And literally there was nothing left, there was no furniture left in the apartment.

Sid: Hmm, in retrospect how important do you think that was as history recorded things for your father’s life?

Gordon: I think it was a test, you know you look back in time and I don’t think that it was much more than a couple hundred dollars you know at this point. Dad had stopped all of his efforts to try to be a worldly success; he was working for WR Gracing and Company in New York City and had quit that job and enrolled in seminary to study for the ministry.

Sid: Your grandfather though was a prominent senator.

Gordon: He was, my grandfather was Senator Willis Robertson and at this point of time he was chairman of the US Senate Banking Committee. So he was a pretty big wheel.

Sid: Do you think he had a problem when your dad stepped down from this fine career at this grace company?

Gordon: I think granddaddy was always sort of disappointed, I shouldn’t say always, for a good period of time was disappointed that dad either didn’t follow in his footsteps into ta political career. Although later he did go into a political career.

Sid: He sure did running for President of the United States.

Gordon: Yeah, I think granddaddy was also that dad sort of turned his back on law and business. But at the same time within our family history my grandfather’s father was a Baptist Missionary, part of the Baptist Home Mission Board. I think because of that granddaddy grew up as a son of a minister. And knew some of the hardship and that’s why he was saying to my father “Are you sure?” My grandmother was a great support, she was a real woman of prayer. Her father was a lawyer who at the ripe age of 56 quit the practice of law to go into full time ministry. So it’s so it sort off was in the family tree, you study for law you get involved a little in politics but you always return to the ministry. So it seems strange that God’s is working through the generations this way but you go back deep into the Robertson family and for generations you find ministers.

Sid: Now you were as a family, your parents and the children, really as I understand it was struggling financially to the point where some evenings all you had was soy beans.

Gordon: We are so many soy beans that I don’t eat soy beans anymore.

Sid: (Laughing)

Gordon: It was a regular part of our diet for several years.    

Sid: Did it bother you that you knew your grandparents had money, here your father’s in the ministry and why do you have to live like this?

Gordon: Well I’d go see granddaddy and here’s granddaddy the US Senator, a nice home in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. I’d spend 6 weeks in the summer with grandmommy and it would be breakfast of cornflakes and strawberries with half and half. And every night was either roast beef or turkey.

Sid: Did you think sometimes maybe I don’t want to go home.

Gordon: Yeah, yeah I mean it was you know some people you grow up without and you don’t know you have it. And it’s sort of the worst to grow up without and know that. I would go to either grandparents my mother’s father was the president of a paint company that had an oversea office in Beirut and so they lived in Beirut for a good decade and they were well to do an Ohio family. So I would visit them and we’d see the difference, and we’d visit my US Senator grandfather and we’d see a very definite difference and we’d go home to soybeans. And it left a mark, it left a mark on I think all of the children as to the sacrifice involved in following the Lord and being obedient to the vision.

Sid: So did you have any inkling that you would end up in ministries as a young person?

Gordon: There were words spoken over me when I was 5 and 6 and 7 years old that I was called to ministry, that one day I would be a host of the 700 Club.

Sid: Did you want to stone them and say “You’re a false prophet?” Or did you just listen?

Gordon: I rebuked them soundly in Jesus’ Name and I said “No way.” And because you know you see this and you see what the sacrifice is involved. And if you don’t understand the other side of it that the word of the Lord can literally burn in your bones. You know it becomes your highest and your greatest, it becomes that treasure that you want to sell everything to get. Until you understand that it doesn’t make any sense to you, why would you… you know dad was a Yale Law School Graduate working for W.R. Grayson and then for an investment Banking Firm in New York City and he left all of that. And you know the political position of his father literally could have named his ticket. He left all of that to pursue a vision for Christian television at a point and time where no one had a vision for Christian television.

Sid: Were you angry with God that your family wasn’t a normal prosperous family?

Gordon:   I don’t know if it ever got to a point that I was angry with God growing up. I think later on in sort of the college timeframe it turned into that. As a child I don’t remember that. I remember being frustrated with sort of our circumstance and saying “Well if this is cost of it, then why do it?”

Sid: Out of curiosity have you learned a lesson that perhaps you play out with your own family having gone through a father in ministry, you’re now in ministry, how do you handle it?

Gordon: I actually feel a real tender heart for all pastors children anywhere. Most pastors families and there are exceptions but most of them, the majority of them don’t live with them. And so I tend to go out of my way to make sure that I try some anonymous ways to send money and make sure that the recipients know that this is not for anything other than your wife and your children. In terms of my own children they’re not growing up with lack, those early days of living on soybeans for the Robertson family are over so I don’t have that. What I do try to make sure with my family is that… and my father did this with me as well that they know the presence of God. That this is not something that they haven’t tasted and handled it and that they know it and that they know it deep in their spirits. That they know that God wants to directly speak with everybody.

Sid: Gordon, unfortunately we’re out of time right now. I want to find out about that supernatural visitation you had. You’re a lawyer and you get a phone call this minister had a dream that you’re supposed to go on the mission-field. You didn’t want to do it but we’ll talk about that on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: On yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about this special bookmark. I love the title, talking to Trish Frost. And the bookmarks title is “I am Father God’s happy thought.” And Trish you’ve listed scriptures here and different categories and you said you like to just put it on your mirror remind you. But let me just read a few of the scriptures. “I am loved by my Father” and then I’ll read a few of the scriptures. Jeremiah 31:3 “Father loves me with an everlasting love. I have never not been loved by my Father.” And it’s talking about Father God. Let me read that again, some of you missed it. “Father loves me with an everlasting love. I have never not been loved by my Father.” Then John 3:16 “Father loves me so much that He gave His only Son to die for me so I might know his love.” You know Trish by the time someone reads this it won’t be that I am Father God’s happy thought they’re going to be filled with the love of God. I don’t think that you can get through this without feeling that way but so many people are wounded. Give me some… describe some symptoms of people that are wounded.

Trisha: Well let me step back just for a minute and pick up on what you just said. I feel like everybody is looking for a type of love Sid that’s unconditional. In other words, we feel loved by certain people in our life but you know “I’m loved if, or if I can do these things or if this happens or maybe somebody will love me.” And maybe we don’t realize that we’re loved unconditionally just the way we are right now if we never do another thing. I mean what if you were a paraplegic in a wheelchair and you couldn’t do anything to perform for love would you know that you’re still loved? And I feel like that’s where Father wants us all… I mean that whole happy thought card is all about us knowing and putting inside of us the scriptures. Scriptures after scripture, after scripture that changes our image of God being a cop in the sky, a God that you have to perform for to just a loving Father. Because most people have not…they didn’t grow up in a home with a loving father. And when you don’t grow up in a home with a loving father you tend to relate to Father God the same way that you relate to your earthly father. And when we do that it can cause woundedness and we’ve seen that when we’re wounded in or family of origin I see it all the time so many people that they just kind of wear shame or they just feel like nobody loves them so they build these walls of self-protection or…

Sid: And those walls people start rejecting them because of the walls that they have because they were rejected.

Trisha:   Exactly, you reject you feel that. And then some more characteristics of woundedness people become possessive in their relationships with other people if they finally found somebody that loves them. This is what happened to Jack and I we just really began to suck the life right out of each other because we were so wounded. Finally someone showed us love and so we became possessive of each other and so we began to control and then we began to manipulate our relationship to get what we needed from the other person. And you know then people would try to tell us these things and we couldn’t receive correction. We couldn’t receive correction because we couldn’t trust, we could not trust the very people in our life that were trying to love us and trying to help nurture us and to help grow us up. So we found it very difficult to receive love from anybody and or we became so self-centered. You know I have a need for constant constant attention and if I didn’t get constant attention from Jack then I would manipulate, control, I would do whatever it took just for Jack to notice me, or Father God to notice me or my daddy to notice me. And sometimes we as parents we don’t have time for intimacy, we don’t have time to show people just how much they’re loved. And when we don’t have time for the very people that God’s put in our life to relate to and to nurture then it builds those walls of rejection.

Sid: So what does someone do that listening to you right now and is saying “That’s me but the walls are too big, what should I do, where should I start?” What would you say to them?

Trisha: I would tell them… begin to ask… the first thing I tell them to do is to pick up our book “Unbound Breaking Free of Life’s Entanglements.” Because there’s so much, people feel like there’s so much I can’t possibly do everything so…  

Sid: And they’ve thrown in the towel, they’ve given up even trying because it’s too big.

Trisha: Well I tell people that whenever… I encounter people like this all the time I was one of those people. It’s one issue at a time, when I began to ask Father God to show me “Okay, what are the things inside of me that are wounding the very people that I love and I want to have an intimate relationship and it needs to begin with You Father God?” I for my life He began to show me one issue at a time. I feel like everything else is under grace until Father God shows us. And as we begin to okay… here’s a wound in my life and here’s the person that wounded me and I can’t relate to this person because I’m afraid of this person because I can’t trust you know so I closed my heart to love to the ability to trust this person. So all of a sudden okay now I understand this, so I take that person and I ask Father God “God,” (I hate to sound like I’m coming across with a plan and it’s really not a plan it’s a relation) “Father, I’m having conflict with this person in my life and I have wounded this person, I have hurt this person, I really want to relate and to love this person, I want to see them the way that you see them.” And so it starts by asking God to show you how He feels about that person. And then the second thing is “How have I wounded that person or how has that person wounded me? Am I willing to identify that behavior that stronghold and I’m willing to let go of it through forgiveness?” And somebody told me one time that “Forgiveness is actually take it and turn it around it’s the ability to give for a person, that’s how you know that you have true forgiveness for somebody because you never going forget what they did to you but you can let go of the pain that’s attached to the woundedness where they’ve hurt you.” So I tell people “First identify the wound, you know identify the behavior; then asked the Lord to show you how can I forgive this person.” And then I hear “Well you don’t understand what that person did to me I can’t forgive.” Well you know, yes you can. I really believe that you can forgive, it may take time and we’re not asking you to forget the pain, we’re just asking you to allow Father to forgive them through you.” You know Father, I can’t forgive them but You can.

Sid: You talk about doing one thing at a time as it’s revealed to you, could you tell me one real thing that you did in your relationship with your husband that broke something open.

Trisha: Oh gosh, have we got the rest of the day….(Laughing) no. Again, I grew up in home with a loving father and so it was so easy to relate to God as love and as a loving father and then I married this wounded man. And he’s so wounded, if I had known that Jack was as wounded as he was we probably wouldn’t have married. And so he was constantly distant, and unapproachable and he was not affectionate, he was emotionally unattached the very opposite of the environment that I grew up in. And so I began to just build walls of self-protection because I honestly didn’t know how to live life with Jack. I didn’t know how to do anything except perform for a place of value in his heart. And so after a while you get tired of performing and I just got so tired of having to feel like I had to do everything right to have a place of value. That I just began to build in my heart this stronghold of isolation, I really became cold toward Jack. I just didn’t have a place of value in my heart for him and so I knew that was wrong. I even actually made a plan to leave and divorce Jack this was right before the revelation of the Father’s love. I had made a plan, my brother was going to help me out to leave because I got so tired of him wounding us and wounding our family. And he’s the guy who’s going out and talking about strongholds, he had a revelation about strongholds at this time but he wasn’t living from that revelation. It wasn’t until the revelation of the Father’s love and the blessing that Jack’s behavior began to change. And so I had to forgive him and when he came home that night from that conference and asked me to forgive him you know we’re talking at this point 20 years of pain, 20 years of feeling neglected,   20 years of feeling like I was Leah in his life instead of Rachael. You know that Rachael was the one that Jack loved and in fact Rachael was the ministry or the sea or things like that or adventure. But you know I always felt like Leah the one that he just tolerated and so when he came home that night and he asked me to forgive him I couldn’t forgive him right in that moment I had to process through is this real or…

Sid: What did he ask you to forgive him of?

Trisha: For 20 years of just being cold and distant and emotionally unattached.

Sid: He knew this.

Trisha: Jack had the idea that wives served their husbands you know to the point of slavery. And you get very little in return and so that was wounding but you know I can’t blame Jack I allowed it to happen.

Sid: I’m sorry we’re out of time…

Sid: And Laura Schultz, and Laura is now a graduate and now and instructress at Mercy Ministry in Nashville, Tennessee. All this week we’ve been featuring a book by the Founder of Mercy Ministries, Nancy Alcorn, it’s called “Mercy for Eating Disorders.” Subtitled “True Stories of Real Hope and Real Answers for Healing and Freedom.” And we found out these eating disorders are literally epidemic. Things like anorexia, bulimia, and binge eating. And I thought you’d find it interesting if I spoke with Laura. Laura we’re just getting to know each other but I understand in high school you gained an enormous amount of weight. You were successful in school but there was sort of like a void in your life, tell me about it.

Laura: Yes, even in childhood I began eating just to cope with pain, to cope with hurts and wounds, gained a lot of weight. And in high school very successful academically in fact very driven, very performance oriented, wanted to be successful and yet I knew that there was something in me that I was not able to fill and I tried to fill that with food. And all that it left me with was, you know, more emptiness, I’d gained a whole lot of weight, was very over weight and was very unhappy, very depressed. Fell, into a very deep depression at about age 16 was when that depression just full blown.

Sid: Now your father put a lot of pressure on you.

Laura: He did and you know I love my dad and we have reconciliation because of the way that he was raised he felt like “Well I need to encourage these daughters of mine to be successful.” And I think that encouragement went maybe beyond just encouragement and into what I perceived as demands. And if I was not perfect, if I was not…

Sid: Getting all A’s.

Laura: Right, right. Needing to be this straight “A” student involved in all of these activities to get this perfect college resume so that I could get a scholarship. I knew that he loved me but I also felt very driven to perform.

Sid: Now in high school you decided to get a little control over this so you went once a week to an organization called “Over Eaters Anonymous.” Most people have heard of AA, Alcoholic Anonymous and this was similar called “Over Eaters Anonymous.” But you actually got even worse.

Laura: Yes, it was like a young adult’s group and it was in a psychiatric hospital and I’d already been seeing a counselor and a psychiatrist and they were trying to help me deal with this. I learned tricks of the trade as you call them in eating disorder from some of these other girls that were in this group.

Sid: Just like sometimes people go to prison to be rehabilitated but they get equipped for even more serious crime by being in prison.

Laura: Exactly, we were teaching each other this is how you can hide your food, and how you can make yourself throw-up. We were really encouraging each other into destruction rather than any kind of healing or future.

Sid: By the way does this particular program and others like it do they get you healed or they teach you just how to control your addiction?

Laura: Well I think you know it’s different for every person. For me that program if it’s grounded in Jesus then I think that there’s true healing. But I do not believe that you know some people believe… “Some people believe once an alcoholic always an alcoholic.” I do not believe that, I think that there’s true freedom in Christ. And some of those programs they do tell you…

Sid: So the Bible doesn’t say that Jesus came to arrest your problem or control your problem, He came to set the captive free.

Laura: Exactly, I mean Jesus didn’t tell the lame man “Here put this brace on and limp for the rest of your life, He healed him completely and he walked away.

Sid: (Laughing) Hey I like that analogy. What were some of things were you at that point doing things like vomiting to get rid of your food?

Laura: I began in high school I really reach a point “You know what I’m miserable.” And I believed the cause of this was because of my weight. And so initially just stopped eating, ate very very little for about 8 to 9 months and very quickly lost about 100 pounds. And at that point couldn’t starve any more so I began binging and purging, throwing up to try to maintain that weight. Of course is just another destructive cycle, I was switching from one thing to another.

Sid: So why were you getting suicidal?

Laura: I had this depression, I hated who I was, I hated everything about myself. I had some hurts and wounds and things that had happened to me and never really dealt with those things. I had a very good family but still you know everybody makes mistakes, everybody has things that they need to work through. I hated everything about me and that eating disorder was part of that attempt to like myself better. I figured if I could change that outward appearance then maybe I’d like myself better. But you know that didn’t change anything on the inside.

Sid: But you actually became suicidal.

Laura: I did I tried to commit suicide several times. I really… my life…

Sid: Did you have any thought if what would happen or just so… in such turmoil that you didn’t think about what’s the repercussion of committing suicide?

Laura: Well no my thinking at that point at gotten to so… I don’t want to say psychotic because I wasn’t psychotic but your thoughts get so jumbled in that depression. And really my life was so miserable I mean unless you’ve been there I don’t know that you can understand. Just the depths of just despair in a depression like not wanting to get out of bed, not wanting to see the light of day. And you really get to a point your like “If this is what life is, if the rest of my life is going to feel like this I don’t want it, I want out.” And so you’re not thinking past, okay what’s going to happen if I kill myself, you think “This is a way out, I want out.”

Sid: So you when you were say cutting yourself with your arms with knives or razors, was that to commit suicide or was that just to infect pain?

Laura: It was a way to deal with that emotion pain, it was a relief. And I didn’t do that very much, once I got into the eating disorder that kind of replaced that. Because eating disorder was also a way to attempt to cope with that pain, that inner pain that I had.

Sid: So they did admit you to a psychiatric hospital and what did they do there?

Laura:   I was admitted several times, the first few times I was actually on an eating disorders unit. I was very rebellious. I was not really open to changing my life at that point. You know that medicated, put me on medicine. I learned some more tricks from these other girls on the eating disorder unit. And pretty much it was get you medicated and get you stable and then send you home. And that was pretty much the main focus of the psychiatric hospitalization.

Sid: Okay, when you started your junior year it says here that you were a size 26.

Laura: Um, hm.

Sid: And you went down to what?

Laura: That was the beginning of my junior year, by the end of that junior year I was probably down to like a 14.

Sid: Now that junior year was this high school or college?

Laura: High school, this is in high school.

Sid: Okay, so were you happy with the way you looked?

Laura:   Well no, I mean I still didn’t like the way that I looked.

Sid: How was it affecting your health though with losing so much weight so quickly?

Laura: I would blackout, my hair was falling out, I would bruise because I just had no nutrition. You know by that point when I was making myself throw-up you have chronic just heart burn and those sorts of things. A few years later as I got into college my health deteriorated even more. And at that point I started abusing laxatives as well. And that messes with your electrolyte system. And eventually was very close to having a heart attack.

Sid: What about your parents, weren’t they concerned?

Laura: Oh, they were very concerned, you know in the beginning I don’t think they realized fully what was going on?

Sid: How could they not? I mean how did they think that you were losing so much weight?

Laura: You know I hid things pretty well, part of having an eating disorder is lying, I mean I lied I flat out lied to my parents.

Sid: So it’s equivalent to almost a drug addict will lie to get their drugs and they’ll do things that are unbelievable. So you’re saying that people in eating disorder would actually slip into that mode?

Laura: Well you become very manipulative, I loved my parents and didn’t want to hurt them but on the other hand I didn’t want them to know what was going on. And obviously once I began to lose drastic amounts of weight they knew, and they intervened. I was seeing counselors, I was seeing…

Sid: Well they sent you to a nutritionist, did this person help you?

Laura:   I mean I really hoped that the person would, they gave me a meal plan and I figured “Well that will help me have some structure. But at that point I was so out of control. No amount of external structure was going to solve my problems.

Sid: And the amazing thing to me as I look in her story as one of the wonderful stories, one of the many wonderful stories…. The thing that’s so amazing is that you were maintaining in college then a 4.0 grade average, you were teaching Sunday School, and working a part-time job. And if someone looked at you you’d just say “Oh, that woman really has her life together.”

Laura:   That’s exactly what most people thought. And that’s what I’m saying, I was able to hide things very well. I mean I would spend my Sunday I would teach Sunday School, go to church, go out with all my friends and come back to my dorm-room and my roommate would be gone and I’d spend the afternoon binging and purging and no one knew.

Sid: Did you pray to be free of this?

Laura: I did, but you know what I never really learned a lot about God and I was teaching Sunday School but it was somewhat legalistic and I really did not know how to develop that personal relationship.

Sid: Laura, we’re out of time.

Sid: My guest Katherine Ruonala she’s red hot for the Messiah; all the way from Brisbane, Australia where she and her husband pastor a church. And they’ve got teams, ministry teams that move in the supernatural at levels that are consistent with the Bible rather than consistent with religion. And I tell you Katherine before we went on the air one of the things that I got out of the book that I loved is a phrase that you use “Double For Your Trouble.” And recently I slipped and I literally broke my jaw and I’ll tell you what I’ve been running around saying “Devil I’m getting double for my trouble, and I can’t wait to see what I’m going to get.” Is that the way that you feel when you say that?

Katherine: That’s so wonderful. The scripture actually tells us in Isaiah 61 “The former same pain and disgrace He will give us double recompense.” Because God’s loves justice and His form of justice is so much more wonderful than ours. He delights to not only restore and to make miracles out of messes; He wants to bring beauty to ashes even when we haven’t deserved it because of what the Messiah has done for us. I’ve really learned that we need to not waste a drop of our pain, the shame the dishonor. But to sow it in faith and really believe that God wants to not only restore but he wants to use all things to work together for our good. And we’ve seen that happen over and over again I remember when we got somebody that was a bit of dislike to us. Didn’t know me put some things up on the internet about us. I was frustrated and I thought “Oh no, that’s not fair.” And my sweet husband told me “I’m not allowed to watch it; I was not allowed to look at it because it was not good to feast on that stuff.” So we instead rather than retaliating we chose we decided we’re going to respond in the Spirit; we’re going to take that dishonor and we’re going to sow it in faith for double recompense. And we just claim double favor on the internet; double favor with the media. And I tell you very soon after we started to get so much favor on the media; so much favor on the internet; YouTube wanted to pay us on the videos that we were showing the miracles of God on, and just extraordinary how God wants to make all things together for our good. If we’ll choose not to fight in the flesh but instead to respond in faith saying “Lord, I’ve to this; I’ve got some ashes here I’m going to sow in faith to receive beauty; I’ve got some mess here I’m going to sow it in faith; pain, shame, disgrace and I’m going to receive; I’m going to look to you to receive double recompense.” And I’ve seen that over and over again.

Sid: Tell me about the time you were going to England because God had promised you open doors and then you had a dream a very strange dream.

Katherine: (Laughing) you know I really believe the Holy Spirit is the revealer of mysteries and that He does speak through dreams. The Lord had given me a prophetic promise that He was going to open doors to England. And I look to my calendar in faith I’d slotted in a couple of weeks and I said “Okay, Lord I’m going to trust You open those doors.” I didn’t know anybody in England I didn’t contact anybody but I thought I’m going to believe God for this.” But as the time came closer I hadn’t heard anything from anybody from England and I began to worry maybe I was being presumptuous; maybe I didn’t know what was going on. As I went to sleep that night the Lord gave me a dream. In the dream He was bringing me in to sit in this chair suspended in midair and I was getting ready to watch something unfold. And I thought, “These are good seats.” And after a little while I tried to figure out how I was staying up here in the air and then I began to wobble and I woke up. And I said to the Lord “Are You trying to speak to me or was a just hot under the covers?” I looked to Him for help because He was the one that reveals mysteries. And the Lord spoke to “Katherine all these miracles you’ve been seeing have you done that?” And I said “No Lord.” “All of these opportunities I’ve given you have you got them for yourself?” And I said “No Lord.” And He said “Why are you worried about England now?” Well I repented and I said “I’m sorry Lord, I trust you.” Well that day someone wrote to me saying “They’d just seen a video of some of the miracles that we’ve seen, cancer being healed and said it with their pastor in the UK. And this pastor wrote to me and said “We live about 6 miles from where Smith Wigglesworth used to minister; we’ve been believing for God to release the miracle power again in this region and just saw your video on the internet; would there be any chance you could come and visit us and minister for us?” And I smiled and I said “Actually I’ve got this 2 week gap that I could come.” And you know as a result God is opened up all of the UK to us and we travel now; I travel all over the world by the grace of God. And God’s really taught me that we need to learn what it is to rest in Him; we are seated with Him in heavenly places. And that’s the place where the miracle working power flows from. That’s the place where we’re to learn what it is to rest in His company to lean on our Beloved. And I really believe that it’s from that place that God wants to show us His secrets. And even now I feel the Holy Spirit’s speaking to me about somebody who is listening to this program and is suffering from terrible pain with arthritis; particularly in your knuckles but it’s actually all through your body. And right now in fact I see you sitting in an arm chair and right now I believe the Spirit of God is coming upon you and God is setting you free. I thank you Holy Spirit for your grace just flowing over them right now. Somebody else has a very difficult pain in their foot particularly in the bunion area of their foot; the big toe joint there. God’s touching you and healing you right now as you listen to this. And somebody else I believe you’ve been diagnosed with brain cancer. We’ve seen God heal amazingly so many cases of cancer, but I believe right now this person listening God is touching you. I thank You Holy Spirit that You touch and You restore. I thank You for deliverance and healing right now by the power of Your Holy Spirit. Thank you Lord we celebrate what You’re doing You’re so wonderful Jesus. And you know even as I’m speaking this I’m seeing somebody else who has stomach cancer and God’s going to touch you right now. Just thank Him for it, thank You Lord. Oh Father, You are amazing, You are so good at restoring; Lord I release Healing in the Name of Your Son Yeshua. Father, I thank you for your healing anointing in Jesus Name. Amen.

Sid: You know as you were praying the presence of God was noticeably, discernibly increased almost like a river. And what I believe is yes, everyone that had that word of knowledge that’s yours. But whether Katherine said that word or not by His stripes you were healed.   And there’s a river flowing and you just step right into that river with whatever condition you have and take it it’s yours because “The gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” That means if one person can be healed everyone can be healed so go for it…. she says that you will stop the struggle for the miraculous and learn to be a gateway that God can step right through. That’s what’s going on with you right now. You are a gateway and God is stepping right through you into your body healing everything that needs to be healed. Katherine talked about arthritic conditions in fingers but it’s arthritic conditions in any place. And as a matter of act Katherine I know that you have an anointing for ears; would you pray against ringing in the ears and for ears to open right now.

Katherine:   Yes, I want to do that right now; and I also sense those listening I sense a cloud of the Spirit the Spirit of God and whatever you need you can just reach out and take that right now. Because the Holy Spirit is wanting to touch you; I thank You that Your wanting to minister right now. I come against the ringing in the ears for those that are looking to You for help. I speak against deafness right now and I release the presence of God for ears to be opened. I thank You that Your sharpening hearing and Your sharpening eyesight. I release Your presence; I thank You Holy Spirit that You are touching, and restoring. I thank you too for back pain particularly for someone with it in their lower back. I thank You for the hand of God touching and being restoration now. Whatever you need just reach out and receive it the presence of God is present with you whether you’re in your car or in your room I believe the Holy Ghost is present right now. We come into agreement with His desire to touch you and restore you. We want to hear too about those miracles. Make sure you send us your testimonies this is so exciting. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. And by His stripes we are healed.

Sid: I could not agree more with Katherine has been prophesying right now. It’s anything you need it’s a flow it’s a river of God’s Spirit. And I believe that people have wrist problems bend your wrist and you’ll see that you don’t have any problems any more. Katherine there is such a flow of God’s Spirit. Well how would you like Katherine to come to your house and have the flow of that Spirit and all things are possible….

Sid: Now I have a passion to see people physically healed. Why? Because that’s Bible. When people are physically healed they recognize the Kingdom of God has invaded the natural realm and they become open to believing in God. Now in particular Jewish people, this is what the Bible says “The Jew requires a sign.” And it’s the job of the Gentile Christian to communicate the gospel to Jewish people. You may not have known that but Romans 11:11 says “Salvation has come to the Gentle to provoke the Jew to jealousy.” And the Jew requires a sign and when the Jew comes in then the reason that Jesus came in Ephesians it says “Jesus came to break down the middle wall of separation between Jews and Gentles. And when that Jew comes in there is an explosion called the “One New Man” or the Body of Messiah. And that explosion is about ready to happen when Gentle Christians become mature in the faith. In light… now you understand what makes me tick now that you understand that I have on the telephone Sheri Stone. I’m speaking to her at her home in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. And Sheri you developed cancer, at the time you developed cancer you were a believer in Jesus. Did you believe that Jesus heals the way He does in the Bible today?

Sherri: No, I didn’t

Sid: But you yet you had some people pray for you. Tell me about that.

Sherri: I believed that if I was supposed to live I was supposed to die I was supposed to die and these people just chose to pray differently than what I thought. And they prayed for my complete healing and that’s what happened. Through the doctors claiming that the cancer was gone, I was healed.

Sid: Now what type of cancer was it?

Sherri: It was a thyroid cancer.

Sid: When you realized you were healed that you were healed did this just turn your world upside down in your beliefs in the Bible?

Sherri: (Laughing) I always believed in the Bible, I always believed God’s word but at that point I figured God had given me a reprieve.

Sid: Hm. Well what changed that thinking?

Sherri: Ten years later when I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Sid: Now why did that change you thinking?

Sherri: My entire thought pattern changed. I knew that I knew then. I knew what God had, I knew that the discernment’s were real, that the discernment’s were strong. And I just knew that without a doubt what He really wanted for us, what His true plan was for us and it wasn’t death.

Sid: Now you have tremendous faith that if you get sick or if anyone gets sick that God wants to heal them but there seems to be a misconnect with a lot of people who also believe. But you saw not just yourself being healed but members of your family. For instance your husband got cancer, what kind of cancer did he get?

Sherri: It was intestinal.

Sid: And what happened?

Sherri:   (Laughing) He was healed.

Sid: What was done? Were hands laid on him, did he just believe?

Sherri: He wasn’t a believer. He was not a born again Christian believer. And the new church that I had just gone to had told me that he needed to be healed. And well that’s great but he’s going to have to go through surgery first. I still wasn’t a believer in healing per say, I believed that God did what He chose to. And he was healed, completely healed.

Sid: So you prayed for him.

Sherri: I prayed for him but I also thought even at that time and I wasn’t… I didn’t have the baptism at that time. At that time I figured God would heal him one way or the other, either through surgery, etcetera, etcetera, or whatever. Actually he’d been given a year to live.

Sid: Hm. Okay, so you get healed from cancer.

Sherri: Hmm, hm.

Sid: Your husband gets healed from cancer and then your son gets a tumor in the brain.

Sherri:   The doctor said that it was a tumor, he didn’t know if it was cancerous, but they were going to perform a surgery and he also was healed before the surgery. He had it for 10 years so.

Sid: Well so how come your family gets healed so easily?

Sherri:   (Laughing)

Sid: Why is that, explain that to me Sherrie?

Sherri:   God wanted me to know what He wanted and what He plans for our lives. And He wanted me to know that…I’m going to go back as a child. I was constantly worried about dying and that’s fear. God determined that dying is not God’s choice for us until a certain age, a certain time. And that’s later on in our life we have work here on earth to do. But I didn’t know that and so I wallowed I guess into that type of self-pity and worry and fret. And the scriptures talks about Job and the fear that he feared the most came upon him and that I was my fear of dying of cancer. And unfortunately several members of my family went through the same thing. Fortunately for us God healed all of us.

Sid: Now answer this, if someone is brand new and just become a believer and they read the Bible and you tell them there is healing by just laying hands or anointing with oil. I believe that they’ll get healed so simply. But it seems as though someone can believe that and then after they’ve been a believer for a long period of time they develop unbelief because they’ve prayed a lot and they haven’t seen people healed. And they literally are walking in unbelief; or they might say a religious statement as God works in such mysterious ways. We just don’t understand He wants to heal one person, He doesn’t want to heal another. Now that doesn’t correspond with the Bible. So what do advice… someone that has experienced the healings as you have and you’re family and the people you’ve prayed for. What advice would you give someone who’s hardened in unbelief and they kind of know it but they don’t know what to do about it what advice would you give them.

Sherri: Well I was in that position some years ago. I said “Okay God “How do I know that that’s really what you want?” And He said “Read Matthew.” And I said “Well that’s all genealogies you know, He said “Read Matthew.” I did, that is what I suggest they do they read Matthew, there is not one place in Matthew it all talks about healing that says “Well because they doubted or because they didn’t do this or because they were a bad person or etcetera they can’t be healed. Every last one of those people in Matthew were healed without exception. And that’s what proved to me that’s what God wants.

Sid: But okay, someone knows that’s what God wants but they’ve been walking in this unbelief for so long. Have you got a suggestion of how they can take this package called unbelief and just throw it out of themselves?

Sherri: Wow! That’s quite a question.

Sid: That’s my job. (Laughing)

Sherri: (Laughing)…Right there, in my case I went to Matthew and read it. I claimed it, I claimed it for myself, and I claimed what God has. And I was a person who had little belief when I was younger. I didn’t believe that I was precious enough or special enough to have any of these things happening to me. And so unbelief was very real and very strong. And God said “Take it as a seed.” The scripture about having little faith as a mustard seed, that’s what I did. Said, “Okay, this is all the faith that I have, make that into the mighty tree” and He did. And step by step, little by little it was perseverance, it was reading the word, it was being in the Spirit, it was rebuking and binding the anxiety and the fear. The fear is the main thing and that’s a spirit.

Sid: I wonder if unbelief could be a spirit.

Sherri: It definitely is.

Sid: Well then, that’s the answer to my question, we just bind unbelief and tell it “Bye, bye no COD we’re not paying for you today.”

Sherri:   All of that comes from fear and my whole life was based on fear as a youngster and as a young woman, a young wife and mother.

Sid: And we know from the Bible that fear is a spirit.

Sherri: “For God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power, of love and of sound mind.

Sid: Sherri, our times slipping away.

Sherri: Alright.

Sid: Tell me about the book we’re offering “Miracles Still Happen.” Why did you write this?

Sherri: I was concerned, I was actually more than concerned about what was happening in the media and God was performing miracles all over. We knew that, we know it He’s performing through us and people all over the world. And I was concerned the media wasn’t producing anything especially the Christian media. I asked God why there wasn’t somebody out there that talked about miracles, books, etcetera. And in return I heard “Well you have miracles.” And I said “Not enough for a book.” And he said “You have friends.” And that’s how we started the book, we had a coauthor Therese Marszalek. And we got together, wrote letters and sent out 300 letters to people we knew who either had miracles or would know someone that had miracles. Received more than 100 in return and that’s how the book started.

Sid: Now, what do you believe will happen, the title of the book is “Miracles Still Happen.” Subtitle “Inspiring Real-life Stories of Supernatural Intervention.” What is your belief when someone reads story after story after story of God invading the natural realm with the miraculous?

Sherri:   This book was intended for crossover market Christian’s and non-Christians because Christians many of us, many of them do not believe that miracles are for today. This is especially for them because these miracles are today. There happening all over the world. And they’re all miracles that have been documented and verified. It’s also for the unbelievers so they know that there is a God and He does miracles and He loves them.

Sid: Well let me tell you something your faith is very contagious…

Sid: Now my guest is Eddie James and I was teasing you a little yesterday to get you to come back but I can’t wait for you to hear this story. Eddie James is provoking me to jealousy, and that’s what the Gentiles are supposed to do, but he’s being equipped he’s being prepared. Literally he saw revival breakout in his high school but tell me the story about the Jewish synagogue.

Eddie: Ah, this is so awesome, so I had no idea Sid that there were those of our Jewish, in our Jewish roots that had questions concerning whether Jesus was the Messiah or not. I had no idea. I just knew that they were the people of God, that Jesus was a Jew.

Sid: Now you probably didn’t even know any Jewish people did you?

Eddie: Never had met one in my life, never knew one at all. And so we were invited to take my gospel choir from my high school during February, which is traditionally known as African American history month, black history month. So they wanted to have some gospel music be brought into the Jewish Synagogue in Phoenix, Arizona where I’m from. They wanted to have us introduce some music to them. So I was excited about the opportunity and humbled by it. I said “Lord, You would give me the opportunity to go and minister before the people who are naturally by birth they’re your people. And so I was so blown away at the privilege that I fasted and I prayed and I fasted and I prayed. I put my entire choir on a fast. We’re talking about sophomores and football players and freshmen; we’re talking about seniors and juniors. We’re not talking about older people we’re talking about 14, 15, 16 and 17 year olds. We’re all fasting and we’re all praying that we would love the Jewish people and that we would release to them what God’s put in us and that we were humble as Gentiles we would be able to minister before them. So we went, and remember taking the bus that the school gave us and we’re praying in the Holy Ghost all the way there. Because I told them, these are people you don’t want to do wrong. The Bible says, “If we bless the Jewish people God will bless us, but if we hurt them we’re in great trouble.” So we need to go with a full prayer and intercession on, we need to make sure we do this. And we get there and Sid I preached Jesus, I preached the Holy Ghost, I preached the cross, I preached the blood…

Sid: This is a traditional Jewish synagogue. Did you know what you were doing?

Eddie: No idea.

Sid: (Laughing)

Eddie: I had no idea, I’m from a church concept that you don’t ever go into another person’s church on what they don’t believe in. I won’t go into a church that they don’t believe in tongues because that would be insensitive to that movement. I could be trusted and so had I known I probably wouldn’t have done this but I most likely would not have done this. But I just naturally assumed because they were Jewish people and that Jesus was the Messiah and that Jesus was Jewish I just naturally assumed that they were all on board.

Sid: (Laughing)

Eddie: (Laughing) I still didn’t understand this and so I go in and I’m giving everything I’ve got.

Sid: Are you praying in tongues too publicly?

Eddie:   We spoke in tongues, we danced, we shouted, we laid hands, we…

Sid: (Laughing) You laid hands on them?

Eddie: The whole bit, charismatic as Acts Chapter 2 as you can get it. We were… I’m talking about all in and the whole audience every single one of them responded to the altar call. Praise…

Sid: The synagogue? All the Jews in the synagogue responded? Was the altar call to receive Jesus?

Eddie:   Yeah, I opened up an altar call for people to get saved, I said…

Sid: Eddied never, never get sophisticated and never get to the point where you’ll never do that again. That’s wonderful, I wish every Christian would do that!

Eddie:   (Laughing)

Sid: Go into your synagogues it’s time (Laughing) I’m sorry, go ahead I couldn’t resist.

Eddie: I didn’t realize the gravity of what happened until months later, I didn’t even realize the gravity. We went in and we were crying, I was so humbled. I was just like “God, I want to do this right, it was a set up, it was a Holy Ghost set up my ignorance was a Holy Ghost set up. It was God because when it was all said and done the Rabbi’s all the people that were a part of the synagogue, every single one of them received Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives. I thought the Rabbis and the leaders there I thought that they were just saying the prayer for the sake of you know how sometime churches will all join in to help.

Sid: Right.

Eddie: No, they were receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives.

Sid: Eddie, I can’t help but want to hear a song… it’s called “He’s alive.” What’s the story behind that song?

Eddie:   Oh goodness, so we’re all… I’m sure your familiar with Chuck Pierce and I was getting for ministering with him in Dallas, Texas. As we get ready to minister, this song just came into my spirit like it just hit me. I was actually in a hotel at the time preparing my song list and getting ready and praying asking the Lord what I would do. And just it was like a visit of the Holy Spirit hit me in my hotel room and this song “He’s Alive” just came into my spirit. We sang it that weekend and it was absolutely explosive.

Sid: Now in other words are you telling me that this whole song was downloaded to you at that time?

Eddie:   Yes sir, yes sir. I didn’t have to sit down and try to figure it out, write it out or anything. The only reason he had typed it up was so that they could help to you know copyright the song. But the moment it came to me the music, the lyrics, the whole thing it was a download in my spirit.

Sid: Now you said it was like a shofar blast, explain that.

Eddie: When the song came this… Sid I don’t know why God does this to me but I hear trumpets, I hear really it’s like the rams horn, the shofar. I hear that sound, it blasted into my spirit and this is what’s interesting is that when I got the download and I heard that in my spirit. When I got to the Chuck Pierce conference there were people in there as I sang the song in sound check, just in sound check they started blasting that same ram’s horn sound. That same sound I heard in my hotel they blasted that at that exact same moment in sound check. We weren’t even performing in service yet we were just doing sound-check.

Sid: Hm. Now… let’s hear “He’s Alive.”