Sid: We are getting ready Mishpochah to blow the grandest shofar, the grandest trumpet in Zion because when that sound hears it will shatter ever demonic stronghold that is trying to prevent you from achieving your destiny.  That’s why I have Barbara Yoder interviewing her this week on the breaker-anointing and Barbara you explained on yesterday’s broadcast briefly what the breaker-anointing was. It’s actually one of the names of God. How would you like God running interference with you and can you see it it’s just like a football team when those big backs are running and knocking down everything in your path.  You just walk through the goal post with a touchdown. I mean it’s easy when that happens.  When was the first time you were exposed to the breaker anointing Barbara do you recall?

Barbara: Yeah, I do because when God took me to Bethesda Missionary Temple in Detroit He knew I needed teaching and training and I had no idea where to go. So I just you know cried out to God and I said “Take me some place.”  And there would be Mom Beale, as we called her out of both love and revering honoring her; she was a real mother in Zion.  She would sense there would be an oppression in the service and you could feel it; you could feel like a palpable resistance, oppression at times just something sitting over the service.  And I’ll never forget this happened several times during the times that I attended that church and was a part of it. She would roll, they’d roll her in her wheelchair up to the pulpit and she would take her right hand lift it up in the air and let out this word in tongues Haroush!  It was always the same word and literally it was as if a dark presence left that place and the whole audience, congregation would break into shouting joy, whatever because you could just feel that dark whatever it was lifting.  It was oppression sometime depression but it was always a spirit of resistance and you could feel it. We could only go so far in the service.

Sid: Well, let me ask you this question when she let this word out in tongues did she shout it or did she say it like this?

Barbara: Oh no she said it with great authority she would say HAROUSH!

Sid: Because let me ask you something I’ve observed when I used to have healing lines I usually now just pray over the whole congregation at once and miracles breakout. But when I used to have healing lines I would find every once and awhile I would put my hand on someone and I would almost scream a word, I’d scare myself and for sure I’d scare them but I noticed there was more power when I got loud because God was telling me to be loud.

Barbara: You know I don’t understand it Sid but agree with you totally and what I find is that when we feel something intensely and particularly when the anointing it’s not really a feeling it’s a presence of God that comes upon us that there’s an intensity to it at time that you can’t help but speak loudly.  And I find myself doing that quite frequently and when that happens literally people get healed, demons will leave it’s amazing the whole atmosphere of the congregation will change.

Sid: Okay, paint me a picture right now of one service where Mother Beale yelled with authority Haroush! Paint a picture of what might have happened.

Barbara: In the service we would feel a real oppression. I’m sure you’ve been to church and when you’re used to the presence of God and it’s not there you know that there’s something pressing against you pressing against the service.  And I remember this one Sunday it was particularly it was like everybody in the whole place was depressed.  And you just…

Sid: What a wonderful church service; I’m just teasing go ahead. (Laughing)

Barbara: It’s like why did I come to church today? (Laughing)  Everybody is in a funk. She it wasn’t a natural funk or a natural depression she knew it was supernatural.  And that Sunday she came up and let out that Haroush! I mean the congregation just started shouting it was as if you let a bunch of people out of a cage. Which goes along with Micah 2:13, “The breaker will go up before them and He’ll break open the way.”  When she did that it was just like joy and shouting it was just like joy well it wasn’t just like it did; joy broke out in the congregation and they were totally, the people including myself, were totally released from that heavy oppressive presence it was really a demonic presence trying to keep us from getting us to where we needed to go in that service that morning.

Sid: You know the scripture you keep referring to in Micah that’s Micah 2:13, I want to read this to you in the Message translation. Now Barbara what I do is I take translations and I personalize them.  I love it when I take the word of God and personalize it and say it out loud. This is from the Message let me read this to you. “I God will burst all your confinements and lead you out into the open.  I will follow the King He will be out in front leading me.” How do you like that?

Barbara: That’s powerful I love it.  I don’t think I have read it in the Message.

Sid: Well, when I read it in the Message it just all fell into place. Now you’ve seen a lot of amazing supernatural things in your life.  You’ve had personal healings; tell me a personal healing that you have had for yourself.

Barbara: One remarkable one was when… my husband died in February, and on July 4^th of that year I woke up with excruciating pain in my upper neck and back it was I couldn’t even move.  I don’t know what caused it I woke up with it. Went to the doctor and he told me that my vertebrae… not my vertebrae but my spinal cord was bulging through a hole in my vertebrae.

Sid: That sounds awful I bet it was really painful.

Barbara: It’s the most one of the most painful things probably the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced.  I’ve had horrible pain from abdominal surgery but I remember by Friday this was Monday that it started by Friday of that week I literally was in the bathroom thinking “What am I going to do today?” I can remember right where I was and I said “This pain is so bad I understand why people commit suicide because of pain.”  Not because I was going to commit suicide that how intense it was.

Sid: Right.

Barbara: The minute I recognized that I said “I am going to the office.”  I hadn’t gone to the office the pain was so excruciating. I had to hold my right arm up all the time just to diminish it slightly.  So here I am driving my car to miles to the church to the office and holding my right arm up.  And I told my staff I said “Listen either you all are filled with the Spirit of God or you’re not; if you’re filled with the Spirit of God then you can make this pain go away you can heal my back.  And they looked at me like “Oh brother I can’t believe this.”  Because I knew my spine was bulging out my vertebrae. So you are going to do it.  I said “If you don’t heal me today I’m going to fire all of you.”  So I mean I wasn’t really…

Sid: I may try that sometime… no I’m just teasing but go ahead. (Laughing)

Barbara: (Laughing) But literally I believed that if the Spirit of God was in them then they could heal me by the power of Jesus.  So they laid their hands on me; it took about 30 minutes and I said “Keep going it’s not gone yet.” They prayed 30 minutes and after about 30 minutes Sid that pain was totally gone. I’ll never forget it and I didn’t have to have surgery and in the meantime the doctor had lost the MRI results and so by the time they found them at the university it was a month later and I didn’t even need the surgery.

Sid: Barbara hold it for one second God wants to heal people of spine and neck problems.  Will you proclaim that right now?

Barbara: I sure will that’s what I was thinking.  “Yes Lord I speak to those spinal and vertebral issues those rotebral issue and I say be healed right now in Jesus Name.  There’s somebody who has a bulging disk between L3 and L4. The doctors says he’s going to do surgery and I speak to that right now and I say be healed in Jesus Name.  I just see there’s somebody feeling intense heat up and down their spine and whatever has been the issue there the root cause it’s being eliminated right now.  And just start bending; just start bending your back right where you are. And where you are and where you’ve had pain you’re not going to have pain now.  Now don’t be afraid to lean over into that pain because as you lean over that’s your act of faith and it will disappear.

Sid: Barbara we’re out of time right now…

Sid: One new humanity that is going to release the full presence of God’s Spirit on planet earth and we are going to see what Jesus prophesied. “You will see the same works I have done; and even greater.”  Now why do we need this right now?  Because we are under attack by the enemy.  I have Dr. Doug Weiss on the telephone and the statistics that he’s personally experienced and aware of it is amazing the sexual perversion is increasing but the amazing part isn’t that it’s increasing in the church, it’s increasing in believers; it’s increasing with pastors; and someone somewhere has got to draw a line.  Now Doug one of the reasons it’s increasing it’s the same reason for abortion; one of the reasons of abortion is there are some wonderful leaders of God that are having their life snuffed out before it even gets started.  But I look at your life and I look at… you were so sabotaged by the world, the devil and the flesh that it’s amazing I’m talking to a sane human right now Doug.

Doug:  Well, that may be true but I’ll tell you what when the enemy declares war on your life that means there is some value that God has in your life.  And I can tell you Sid the church throughout world history and once it knows it’s at war and wakes up it always wins it never fails.  But the church has been in a sexual war for decades and not really alert to it’s a war; it’s strategic and what the enemy is trying to take is the church’s authority on planet earth.  And if he succeeds in America we will look like Europe in the next 10 to 15 years.

Sid: But you know what Europe is getting even worse too. You know I don’t know Doug; I don’t know that we’re going to have 10 or 15 years of business as usual in America if it just this immorality keeps coming.  I don’t think we have 10 or 15 years.

Doug:  You may be right; I’m being optimistic I believe that now is the hour through what you’re doing and we’re doing together people can become clean. If we lose our self in this we’re in serious trouble.  But if we can capture the light of God; if we can capture the sexual purity of God and maintain the destiny that God has for each one of our DNA that He’s put in us by His Spirit.  Then if each one of us reaches that I believe that we can have revival.  I believe that we can see the Spirit of God.  I believe our sons and daughters will prophesy; I believe that we will see healing of supernatural things way out of the order that the America seen yet.  I really believe that we can cry out to God and He’ll hear us if we have a clean heart.

Sid: Doug, you made a statement that is so strong, I want to shout it from the rooftops and you said in your literature God is not just your Father but He’s your Father-In-Law explain that.

Doug:  Yeah, so many people we know marriage is not between two people.  Remember that conversation you know as marriage between man and woman.  Even Christian leaders were talking about that; that was probably about one of the dumbest questions.  Marriage is not between a man and woman; it’s between God and man and woman.  Okay a marriage is 3 people; and because of that God’s is not just your Father He’s your Father-In-Law.  So if you’re a man your wife is God’s daughter and you have two relationships with the Father.  One is Father, one is Father-In-Law; and I say this is true as a woman.

Sid: And I remember my Father-In-Law the night I got married he looked me in the face, he wasn’t a believer and I wasn’t either by the way, but he took his finger at me and he said “If you ever do anything wrong to my daughter I’m coming to get you!”  How much more if it’s God!

Doug:  Well, God feels the same way for every daughter so imagine if you’re married to his daughter and then you’re over here looking at pornography and you’re doing other things that are in appropriate imagine how He feels towards you.  Okay he has the same Father-In-Law heart towards the woman you married.  So we have to be so… some of us we don’t really think about God in those terms, but He is Your Father-In-Law; every man every daughter and every daughter is precious to Him.  Every daughter is pure to Him; every daughter is holy to Him. So we need to be careful what we’re doing because as men our spiritual destiny; our spiritual authority is at stake Sid if we go down the wrong road.

Sid: Now you have some weapons that we have at our disposal to protect us from this onslaught that’s going on; explain them.

Doug:  Well, I mean we need to carry the weapons that God has given to us; I mean the first thing is that you have to commit to being clean; you have to commit.  If you don’t make a commitment you’re going to be very hard to do that; you need to have a plan whether that’s having accountability; okay. And one of the very basic things Sid we talked about is the fear of the Lord; fear God!  Understand He really is and He’s a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. He will mess with you if you are not being appropriate.  And we need to you know there’s lots of practical…

Sid:  Well, even going back to that God is your Father-In-Law sentence that you had; husbands are supposed to protect their wives not open themselves up to the demonic and addictions.

Doug:  Well, and disease; I mean you know it goes all the way down spirit, soul and body.  I know women who have AIDS because of the inappropriateness. 

Sid:  Their husbands.

Doug:    There are real consequences to this Sid I mean and some of them are you know known like disease and divorce and stuff like that.  And some of them are unknown; it is the man who lost his spiritual authority; the book he didn’t write; the ministry he didn’t start; the church that lost the wealth of that person.  And all of that kind of stuff the missions that weren’t done. There are so many causalities that are unknown Sid because in the book of Revelations it says this in 2:20 until the end.  And the very end it’s about that woman Jezebel teaching sexual immorality in the church.  God said “I gave her time to repent and she wouldn’t but the very last verse says this “To him who overcomes.”  And it as talking about this spirit of sexual duplicity and Christianity “If you overcome that duplicity I will,” not I’ll think about it; “I will give you authority over the nations.”  Every believer has international global DNA inside of them; and that can be forfeited by sexual sin.

Sid: And there’s a question I ask often and I’m sure you ask this question.  “Whatever happened to the fear of the Lord.”

Doug:  You know I think well we took God out of schools; you know and so now our culture is moving in a godless direction to say the least.  Okay, and now there’s some places where we’re taking the gospel out of the church; you know so we’re not really talking about the God who is present and who you are accountable to.  We want God to be our buddy and our friend which is you know that’s fine but He is God Almighty, okay! And when you honor Him and understand that you will be accountable in not only what you say and do but your heart towards Him that you want to live and respect of Him because He died for me.  You know and I think for me that’s a very core; I just want to honor the Lord. Men if you’re struggling and you’re looking at porn and you’re going on sights and you’re doing things that in appropriate, women as well, it doesn’t honor the Lord.  And he wants you to have a clean heart inside your spirit is a cry to be clean and you deserve to have that fulfilled.  That is your destiny to live a clean heart and a clean life and a pure conscience before God.

Sid: And you talk about steps that that occur from lust to death; you have formula called “You + P = D” explain.

Doug:  Yeah, that’s a great chapter in “Clean” Sid. You is yourself + P (which is pornography), or we could put in any of the sexual inappropriate behaviors in there, equals destruction.  So many people are deceived into believing that these little private sexual text and emails and chat rooms and video gaming that they do it doesn’t hurt anybody.  I’ve written over 30 books and a couple of those books have lots of statistics in how a wife, depression, lowers her self-esteem waking and their marriages are emotionally and less satisfying and immature and the husband stay.  The children suffer relationship and all kinds of other kinds of consequences so this is not a victimless crime.  See there is something that I say in “Clean” that’s really powerful Sid.  “What a man loves is what he protects,” and if you’re protecting your pornography and your protecting your sexuality instead of protecting your family that means your sword is aimed at your family!  We need to switch that around, as a man we need to stand and face their sword against the enemy without family behind us and confess our faults and say “This is what’s going on, I don’t want to be like this; I have a desire to be clean and be free.” Get honest with our pastors or our spiritual leaders; our wives and so we can be free and clean.”

Sid: Okay you’re talking about married men but there’s a whole army out there of single men.

Doug: Hmm, hm.   

Sid: What is lust? How would you define that?

Doug:  Well, lust is very; we all know when we’re doing it.  Okay, “In Clean” I talk about a holy hologram a woman is multidimensional she’s spirit, soul and body; when you reduce her to less than three dimensional you lust.  When you use that for sexual purposes you lust; okay you may be that well, I’m looking at something maybe it’s not pornography maybe it’s the Victoria Secret Catalog, or Sports Illustrator, but you’re lusting. You know when she’s no longer a child of God; she’s no longer a daughter; she’s no longer a friend of mother. See Paul said “Love all women as sisters.”  And what he was saying was put all women in a relationship context and you won’t struggle with lust.

Sid: You know as a new believer I had zero background but I was set free of a lot of things instantly.  I saw myself having a problem in that arena. And what I did is I took a scripture “Blessed are the pure in heart” and the second that I was tempted I said that scripture out loud and it just dissipated, it was wonderful.

Doug:  Amen, that’s a very good tool because what you did is you put that woman in a relationship context and you said “Father she’s Your daughter, she’s Your daughter I’m not going to lust over her.” 

Sid: Well, actually I did it the other side; I put myself and I said “I want to be blessed, I want to be of pure heart.”

Doug:  Amen.

Sid: I looked at it from my side. (Laughing)

Doug: Good for you, good for you that’s awesome.

Sid: Okay, our time has slipped away and I want to get into what entertainment does to the brain on tomorrow’s broadcast.

SID: Now there’s a question that a lot of Christians are wondering. Can a Christian have a demon? What do you say, Nick?

NICK: Yes.

SID: That’s short. You’re a man of few words.

NICK: Yes.

SID: But explain please.

NICK: Okay. First, I want to explain that you’re not a bad person if you’re dealing with an evil spirit. Our enemy is the devil. It’s taught in the New Testament that we should cast out demons. Jesus went into the temple, which is a type of, the New Testament believer—

SID: The Temple.

NICK: Yes, the Temple of the Living God. And see, the temple had the Holy of Holies where the Holy Spirit dwelled, where no man could get in without the blood of the lamb. And then we have the inner court and the outer court. Jesus cast thieves, the moneychangers and the thieves. The thieves could be representing evil spirits out of let’s say the outer court and the inner court. And so it’s my belief that that the Bible teaches that there’s a spirit, soul and body, and that our spirit man is sealed with the Holy Spirit once we receive Jesus Christ. And our flesh, it needs to be renewed with our mind. So our flesh could have stuff inside causing things that aren’t of the Kingdom of God.

SID: Now you talk, you know what I’m thinking about. Have you ever read the New Testament about a spirit of infirmity? Have you ever been sick? You now are no longer with that institution. You help people full time all over the world. What about someone that is physically sick? Could that be a demon?

NICK: I run into a lot of times with people who have been praying for healing for many years. They go to the pastors, they go to evangelists and they come up front, and they want healing. They really want it bad. But they just want healing and they don’t maybe, possibly they’ve never heard of deliverance or they don’t believe in deliverance.

SID: You know, at least a third of Jesus’ ministry was casting out spirits from people.

NICK: Yes. The evil spirits actually cause all sorts of things that people think are just medical conditions like I’ve seen people healed of MS. I’ve seen people healed of—

SID: There was a spirit behind it?

NICK: Yes. A spirit of cancer, I’ve seen it come out of a woman. She said that it came out of her breast. A spirit came out of her breast. Also I’ve seen people healed of stage 4 liver cancer or actually, I’m sorry, bladder cancer, I’ve seen that. It was actually spirits.

SID: I don’t have time to ask my doctor friend this, but I don’t think too many people with stage 4 bladder cancer get healed and all they have to do is do what the book says: believe it and do it. The book is the truth book, otherwise known as the Bible.

NICK: Paul told us if we sowed the flesh, of the flesh we’re going reap corruption. And so what happens is that we, sometimes we have a sinful life in our past and we get, we receive Jesus into our hearts and then we don’t learn about deliverance, and bring those, let’s say corrupt type things in the flesh, the curses from the law or from living in sin into our Christian life. And then we have to deal with these evil spirits later on causing disease and sickness, arthritis, cancer, all sorts of things.

SID: Now what I love about you, Nick, is this is not your emphasis in your life. His emphasis is intimacy with God, loving God. Tell me how you developed such intimacy with God.

NICK: Well when I was going through my healing of schizophrenia, I would, I started praying. I prayed about a couple of minutes at night then I’d pray about 30 minutes a night, and then I decided to look at the Word where it said, “If you seek God you will find Him when you seek Him with your whole heart.” And He’s a great rewarder of those who diligently seek him. So I prayed to God and I said, “This is your Word and I’m standing on it and I’m going to seek you until the day I meet you either in my room or in eternity.”

SID: Give me an example, actually pray that right now. Just pray what you just said.

NICK: Lord Jesus, your word states that if I seek you with my whole heart, if I actually pray and seek you, your face, and I repent for my sins, I can actually meet you and see you, and you will come through for me.

SID: And you hear God’s voice now. What’s it like to have intimacy with God? Describe what it’s like. I know that’s hard, Nick. But, I like to ask hard questions.

NICK: I did every single drug you could name: ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana. I went to every party you could think of. I was a nightclub bartender. I did everything I could to escape from the pain of the world. The day I met the Holy Spirit, I never could ever imagine why anybody would ever want to do drugs or ever want to drink, because the Holy Spirit’s love is better than all of it.

SID: Pray the Holy Spirit’s love, but the Holy Spirit’s love on people that are watching right now.

NICK: Okay. I have, I would like you to do like a heart sign, like a prophetic sign with your hands. I believe the Lord wants you to do this. Just as an act of faith, just this little heart sign. It’s simple. Just as an act of faith, showing God that you really want His love, because He loves you. See the heart. In the mighty name of Jesus, Father God, I pray that the person or the people that are seeing this heart, that they would raise their hands up with this heart and agree with me that you will appear to them. You will show them your deep love that you will heal them of everything that afflicts them, that you will deliver them and their family members, and prosper them. Lord, I pray for each individual that you would send a dart of your love into their heart in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, the risen king. Amen.

SID: Amen. I’m going to tell you something. If there’s someone watching right now and you say, I’ve gone too far, there’s no hope for me, answer them in one minute.

NICK: Jesus Christ is standing next to you right now. All you have to do is just open your heart to him. If you doubt the Word of God, if you doubt that Jesus Christ is really real, you just pray to God and you ask Him about Jesus. God is a God that answers prayers. Listen. He is the one that answers prayers and He knows what you’re going through. God is a God of hope and a God of love, not a God of religion, not a God of judgementalism, but a God of love and of peace. Reach out.

SID: Say, Jesus, I make you my Lord. Say it out loud wherever you are right now. I believe you died for my sins. I ask you to take over my life, be Lord of my life, fill me with your Holy Spirit and power. If you can do that for Nick, say that out loud, if you can do that for Nick, you can do whatever I need for me, in Jesus’ name. Amen.

SID: Now David heard God’s voice and went away for like a retreat in a tent for eight days to seek God’s face. What did you take away from that experience?

DAVID: Well this isn’t brand new. I did go back a couple of years ago. This just happened. And literally the takeaway from eight days in the forest with my dog, but most importantly with God, God said to me, Sid, we’re coming into a short season of blessing and prosperity. But those that are going to enjoy it the most are what you would call normal, red hot for God. And those people that are pressing in, they’re living the life God wants them to live, they’re going to hear God in a more clear way. God showed me, going back to the vision that I had, the open vision where I saw the beams of light.

SID: Yes.

DAVID: He took me back there and said to me, “This connection is there for everybody. But those people that are dying to themselves, living for me, walking in holiness, I’m increasing their bandwidth. It’s like when the computers came out 25 years ago, you know, we can do data message and do texts. But now we have high bandwidth. We’ve actually got streaming video. And it’s like right now God is opening the windows to Heaven. For those people that are pressing in, there’s an increased bandwidth and they’re literally receiving and going to receive so much more high definition video from Heaven like Branham did. Branham who did, I heard it said in his life time, in his miracle ministry like in the late ’40s and ’50s, more miracles in his ministry than all the other great healing revivals together.

SID: David, another supernatural key is knowledge, and knowledge of the name of Jesus saved his life, his family’s life. Tell me about that.

DAVID: Well it all happened because I chose to meditate on the Word of God to renew my mind. And when you do that, Sid, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. And in this particular case, my wife and I, and our two children were in literally a killer tornado that took other people’s lives. And we were coming to a stop sign and two trees right in front of us 60 feet away, literally took off, one from the waist, one from the roots. My wife said, that wasn’t normal.

SID: Of course it wasn’t.

DAVID: Same time, about eight or 10 trees, 100-foot trees lay down across the road and I recognized I was out of control, couldn’t steer, couldn’t stop the van. And at that moment there’s no time to pray. But you know what’s in your heart. And out of the abundance of heart I said, “Jesus.” At the name of Jesus, the tornado had a [unintelligible], dropped us onto the ground and we drove south.

SID: Now David, my wife’s favorite key is humility. And I don’t have to worry about humility. That’s her job to [unintelligible]. However, my favorite key is the next one, compassion.

DAVID: Compassion is a real. If you look at the miracles of Jesus, before many miracles it says, “He was moved with compassion.” And literally this goes back a number of years. My wife was pregnant at the time with our daughter. We were driving to Wisconsin. We had just moved to Oklahoma the year previous to go to Bible school. And it was Christmas Eve, Sid, and literally the coldest day in history. The wind chill in northern Illinois, we were going from Tulsa to the Milwaukee area, the Illinois the wind chill —

SID: That’s quite a mouthful, the coldest day in history. Go ahead.

DAVID: It was like 70 below zero wind chill. They were saying, do not drive, do not go outside. It’s dangerous. Cars can’t run in this cold weather. I had just gone to Bible school, being a great man of faith, I said to my wife, “We are full of faith. I’m a man of faith. We’re going to go and we’re going to do just fine.” And literally, there was no traffic on the road. People had more sense than I did. And when we were going along the highway and seeing cars stranded because a car can’t run in that cold weather. Gas lines were frozen. And we got through Illinois, in the middle of Illinois and our car started to do like all the others, stopped running. Went over to the side of the road. And it was cold. I mean, the car, the engine heat couldn’t keep up with the cold outside. We were already chilled. But when the car stopped running it got very cold. And I got out of the car, opened the hood as if I knew what I was doing. But I opened the hood. I prayed a prayer and it was a good prayer. I mean, it was a good faith healing prayer. And I felt pretty proud about it. And I got back into the car, sat down and the car started right up. And praise God, this prayer stuff really works. We drove about a hundred feet and the car stopped again. And literally what I was told is that the engine heat, there was enough there to melt the little bit of the gas line. So we ran for another hundred feet or so. Now when we stopped, I see a [unintelligible] in the car. Again, I got out of the car and I looked at my wife first and said, “This is the worse memory of my life.” And my wife had the look of fear of death because there’s nobody out there.

SID: And you said she was expecting, too.

DAVID: Yes. She was six months pregnant. And there was no cell phones at that time. This is in 1983. And literally I got out of the car and I can’t get her face out of my mind. I opened up the hood. I can’t see her, but it’s all I can see, is that look of hopelessness. And I recognized it. I wasn’t a man of faith. I was operating out of foolishness and [unintelligible]. Even being proud of my faith, I mean, I was learning. What I’m learning today is compassion, and recognizing compassion defined by the dictionary is “the awareness of the suffering of another.”

SID: But when you were aware of the suffering of your wife and you prayed again with compassion, what happened?

DAVID: A miracle, absolute miracle. I prayed. I wept. Asked God to forgive me for my foolishness and pride. Sat down in the car and it started right up.

SID: David that was a great miracle. How great a miracle was it?

DAVID: Well, we would have died, Sid. I mean, there was no hope. There was absolutely, mechanics have told me, there’s no way a gas line once frozen can, outside of being in a warm garage or something. But literally God melted the frozen ice, started, like the water to wine, a molecular change. The car ran fine the rest of the trip.

SID: How many miles?

DAVID: Well from that point, it was 250 to 300 miles.

SID: Whatever God is doing for David, whatever God is doing for me has nothing to do with us. It has to do with the fact we chose to make God, our God, to believe in Jesus, to repent of our sins, believe his blood washed away our sins, believe that God remembers our sins no more and believe that Jesus lives inside of me, inside of you. I want you to pray that prayer right now and mean it, and have it count for eternity, and start doing the destiny that God has called you to. That’s the first step.

Sid: I’m interviewing Marilyn Hickey, why?  She does what the Bible says she’s supposed to do, to me anyway.  As a Jewish believer in Jesus the Bible says you’re supposed to provoke the Jew to jealousy; she does and I have to tell you why she does.  She had the opportunity of seeing Branham, I mean he had, as far as I’m concerned, Marilyn Hickey he had one of the most outstanding ministries short of Jesus I’ve ever heard of.  Was he that accurate, did he really know so many things about people before he prayed; what was he like?

Marilyn: Branham had an unusual gifting of the Holy Spirit, a visitation of the Spirit of God on him and he would tell you detailed things.  Very gentle man, loving, not tall, not a big stature of any kind but oh the words he spoke.  And the first time I heard him I had an aunt and uncle here in Denver from Texas. He pointed my aunt out in an audience of 5000 she had on a red hat; he said “You have a grand child who’s injured at birth, she has never walked and when you go home she will be walking.”  Well, my aunt and uncle you know jumped up and drove to Dougherty, Texas, you know with 400 miles, and knocked at the door of their son’s house that Jerry had been injured at birth.  And the mother answers the door crying and she said, “I don’t what has happened but Jerry has started to walk.”  And the doctors said you know she had brain damaged she’d never walk.”  She had a normal life, that’s the kind of detailed things he would give.  And then my husband and I at 3 years after we were married we went to Dallas, Texas to “A Voice of Healing Campaign.”  And he spoke there and a big crowd of people, maybe 6,000 people under a tent, hot, hot, hot in Dallas, and he called me out and said, “You’re not from here, you’re from Denver Colorado, you’re from a mountainous area, you want to have a baby and they’ve told you you can’t have one; go home and receive your baby.”  But I had a radical experience with the Holy Spirit because as he’s facing me and saying this on the plate-form and I can’t explain this but it was like a wheel within a wheel turning.”

Sid: Well I’ve heard about that in Ezekiel I’ve often wondered about that, tell me I mean because this is actually biblical but what did you feel when this was happening?

Marilyn: Well, it was low and I knew the scriptures in Ezekiel but it was low and you could heard it and it would go swish – swish and I thought I was so frightened if I step into that I will die, this is the presence of God.  And then He said, “Go home and receive your baby.” And that wheel within a wheel whirring came into my feet and it was not till ten years later that I got pregnant with Sarah. When I was pregnant the doctor who examined me said, “You’re not pregnant it’s impossible your going through the change.”  So I went home and I had some pretty big changes.  Went to another doctor he said “This is a five and a half month pregnancy,” and so Sarah as you know most people know, you see me on television, Sarah’s with me and that was such a miracle.

Sid: But I have to ask you something, 10 years from that word did you give up, did you think that well the guys finally missed it with me?  What happened on your radar during these ten years?

Marilyn: (Laughing) Well Sid I’m a little embarrassed to say I did give up but my husband didn’t and we had adopted a child and I thought you know this is it.  And my husband…

Sid: Your helped the prophet out by saying maybe he saw the adopted child, is that what you were doing? (Laughing)

Marilyn: I thought, yeah, help God you know so many of us want to help God and so then my husband said, “No Marilyn God is going to give us a natural born child.”  So he is the one who really stood in faith.  Sid I’d like to pray for people who are listening who would like to have a child, the only prerequisite you need to be married.

Sid: I think that’s wise (Laughing), but you know what, I’m going to have to tell everyone listening right now if you want a child it doesn’t matter what the doctors have said, it doesn’t matter what your experience is it matters if someone believes God and prays according to the word of God.  And I have to tell you that Marilyn Hickey has a key word that I read in her literature, expectation. When she prays she expects God to answer.  Please pray Marilyn.

Marilyn: Lord, I thank You that you said we delight ourselves in You, You give us the desires of our heart, You told us that the barren would produce.  So I pray for everyone whose listening to this program, who would like a child, I pray that they have a wonderful, wonderful child; not a rebellious child a child who will serve God and You give them the wisdom to raise this child in the ways of the Lord.  And I thank you that many people, there’s going to be an increase in population, many people are going to have that child, the desire of their hearts in Jesus Name.

Sid: Amen, Marilyn I want to take you a little further, no let’s go back a little bit, I want to find out how God gave you such outrageous, and that’s the best word I can use for it, outrageous faith to believe for miracles.  I mean you go into Muslim countries, you have preached in Muslim mosques, for a woman to do this number one I don’t see how it’s possible in the natural, number two it’s got to be exceedingly dangerous. You didn’t just start out by going into speaking to thousands of Muslims advertising miracles will happen in Muslim countries, it started all the way back when you were 10 before you were even saved you used to literally read the Bible as a 10 year old.  Why would you do that especially not being saved, especially being a child?

Marilyn: I can only say the Spirit of the Lord. God has a plan and destiny for everyone no one here is an accident we’re made in His image God put a hunger in me to read the Bible and I would pray and I even began to memorize some of the scriptures. Then when I got born again at 16, I mean I was wild over the Bible I couldn’t get enough because I had the Author in my heart.

Sid: But another key thing is as I study your life there are a number of key points that are very very obvious to me. You went to a Bill Gothard Seminar and he talked about the value of memorizing scripture, that had to be a major directive from God in your life.

Marilyn: That turned my life around in another way I shouldn’t say around, but gave impetus to what God had already put in my heart a hunger for His word and Bill Gothard told how he was retarded and you know they just pushed him up grade by grade he didn’t make it but they’d push him.  And that he had a Sunday school teacher who began to teach all the boys to memorize scripture and he got into meditating on the scripture.  Memorize is really meditating, and how his grades went up, he graduated as valedictorian you know and went through the university always meditating and God just spoke to me and said this is the theme of your life Joshua 1:8, and mediate on the word day and night; if you speak the word day and night; you do the word day and night you’ll make your own way prosperous and successful.

Sid: Marilyn there are many people and by the way and by the way having researched you I see your good in languages means you have a mind that’s easy to memorize.  What would you say to someone that says “It’s so hard for me to memorize, I memorize three or four scriptures and by the time I get to the fifth I’ve forgotten the three or four that I memorized so I just don’t bother doing it any more what would you say to that person?

Marilyn: I would say take one scripture a week and your mind is fresh in the morning, mine is the freshest then. Say that scripture out loud ten times, now don’t ask me why ten is so good I don’t know.  And when you say it out loud then God begins to move in your spirit and you’re canning the word.  So I like Psalm 51:6 it says “Thou God desires truth in the inward man.  In the hidden man you will make me to know wisdom.” So you’re canning the word.  My mother used to can peaches in the summertime, we hated it, my brother and I had to sterilize the jars, peal the peaches, but we loved it in the winter time, there’s hardly anything better; well it’s almost better than kissing your husbands and eating home canned peaches.  And the Lord said, “That’s what’s your doing when you mediate on the word, your canning it, you’re putting it inside and then the Spirit at the time you need it will make it bring it to your mind and make it wisdom.  So these scriptures that you say, you know take one, take a promise.

Sid: And I like your idea of once a week and in fact God’s been speaking to me Marilyn that on the radio I should have one mediation scripture per week and I should say it every day the five days and everyone along, and myself included, will mediate on that one scripture per week so we’ll talk about that on tomorrow’s broadcast.  But Mishpochah I have to tell you I’ve seen Marilyn for years on television, I’ve heard her teach, but I got a hold of her book “The Pathway to Miracles” and I have to tell you it is so charged with faith.  You will have an expectation for miracles, and then her two CDs on God’s authority.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is pastor of In His Presence Church in Woodland Hills, California, Desiree Ayers.  I have Desiree’s brand new book called “God Hunger.”  If you were listening to yesterday’s broadcast you would find out that she was anorexic, bulimic, compulsive eater, and she tried everything the world had to offer.  She was a born again Spirit filled Christian; nothing seemed to be working, but you know Desiree you said that when your husband found out that you’re were back to your old habits of purging and doing everything possible to lose weight, repeat again what he said to you.

Desiree:  Well, he looked at me because I was mad, I could just remember how mad, how upset I was and he had like the fire of God coming out of his eyes and he looked at me and he said “Desiree Ayers I don’t care how many times you slip, I don’t care how many times you fall, the word of God says ‘You are healed and you are healed in the name of Jesus.’”  And what happened as he was speaking because it was such word of life, he was speaking words of life and I was upset, I was hurt and on the inside I was just crying, I mean not manifesting but just so hurt.  But as he did that it was like this strength went on the inside and all of a sudden I know longer viewed myself as a victim that only had a moment of recovery. I started to view myself as a victorious person that simply had a slip and a fall and that I could pick myself back up and I could get the victory over this.  And it was a good probably six month battle of different slips and falls that I’ve had but I will say now that I’ve had 23 years where there has not been one slip, there has not been one fall, I am completely healed.  I feel better about myself of who I am in Christ at almost 50 years old, then when I was 22 years old winning bikinis contests and felt horrible about myself.

Sid: Desiree in your book you state how big a problem this is, it’s not just a problem that you had and I believe that God redeems everything. Even the big mess you made out of your life you’re able to help others get free of addictions of all kinds but tell me about how serious this problem is.

Desiree:  Well, I’ll give you some statistics I got. Eating disorders affect 5 to 10 million American adolescent woman approximately, one million American boys and men. One of the common behaviors that lead to it is dieting. But it is 19% of college age women in America are bulimic and I think that’s shocking; bulimics are where you’re throwing up your food.

Sid: Nineteen percent but you know it’s the field that you used to be in, it’s the movies and it’s the TV that is really saying “You are…there’s something wrong with you if you don’t look like Twiggy.”

Desiree:  Yes, this one is shocking “According to a recent study, over half of the females between the ages of 18 and 25 would prefer to be run over by a truck than be fat. And 2/3 surveyed would rather be mean or stupid.  It’s just overwhelming, it’s been shown that 80% of American Woman are dissatisfied with their appearance; it’s approximately 300,000 adult deaths in the United States each year are attributed to unhealthy dietary habits and physical activity.

Sid: You know what I was wondering if our role models come from Hollywood I imagine a lot of Hollywood personalities are involved in anorexic or bulimic activities.

Desiree:  You’ll find that it runs rapid there, it does with dancers, it does with gymnast people that you know people that have to weight certain weights.

Sid: Listen the young kids, I mean it goes all the way to elementary school now it’s getting ridiculous.

Desiree:   Yeah, and I think that’s shocking you know I think it’s very shocking but I can remember dieting at the age of 10 years old being on diets.

Sid: Okay, it’s such a big business would you say in your book $50 billion a year died and diet related industry.  And of course there’s the old adage “Diets don’t work.” They literally don’t you need a lifestyle.  So what did…how did God heal you?

Desiree:   Well, there were a couple of things there are two big keys that I’ve written chapters have in my book.  And I’ve written one of them was getting my Bible and saying…I started Matthew and I read Matthew to Revelation and I said God you got to speak to me about this, this a problem Your word is life it’s health talk to me.  And when I got to Matthew by Chapter 4 where Jesus said “I’m the bread of life.”  And He talks about that He has food to eat that we don’t know about.  And there’s a fulfillment in Him and I started to find the more I filled myself up with God I didn’t have these cravings. Then what started to happen…

Sid: But wait a second now Desiree there are a lot of fat Christians that love God and they’re hungry for God but they’re still fat.

Desiree:  Well, you have to decide that you’re going to deal with the area you know because you know how the Holy Spirit is, He’ll work on work on one thing and then the next and then the next. If we don’t want to deal with it we don’t have to deal with it but any…

Sid: I say unfair, I say God should make us deal with it but go ahead.

Desiree:  Well, fortunately we pay the price how many fat over weight Christians that love God die before their time because they didn’t deal with this area. We all know that it’s not healthy, it’s not healthy for you. If you will allow God and you’ll get serious about it and if you’ll talk to Him and say “God You have every hair of my head numbered,” That means every pound of my weight let’s deal with it and get really serious about dealing with the issue He will come in and He will show Himself strong on your behalf and He’ll help you with that area.

Sid: You know Desiree my producer of the radio show who had to read your book says that she has been following what you are suggesting and it’s only been a week so that’s unfair, however she’s saying it’s supernaturally working the ideas you have in your book they’re not natural they’re supernatural.

Desiree:  You know and that’s what God does you know he can make this easy, I thought it was going to be so hard because I did every die there was, I tried every program, nothing worked for me.  But God works, He has answers in His work. What happens is the Bible talks about our mind being renewed by the Word of God.  My thought process because eating disorder is going to start in your mind, you’re going to become consumed with food, what you eat, what you’re not going to eat, yourself and what you weigh.  I started becoming consumed about the things of God and there in excited about the Lord.  And I would ask Him to lead and guide me each day in what I would eat and it became very easy because we all know we’ve all read, anyone that’s over weight you’ve read a diet book you know you’re supposed to eat the fruits and vegetables the wholegrain, you’re supposed to add exercise; we know what to do but the ability to apply it as a lifestyle in our life.  But when you bring the Holy Spirit in on the scene to help you, and this was a big key because when I would start to binge and purge this is where I found out how powerful the Holy Spirit was. I had one time where I was going to eat all this cookie dough and then I decided you know I’m going to give this Holy Spirit praying in other tongues thing a try. I ended up right before I was going to eat the entire bowl of cookie dough I started to pray in tongues just simply spoke out [praying in tongues]. Just started praying in tongues, well the presence of God filled my little tiny kitchen where I was living and I got on my knees and I started worshiping the Lord; I came up with tears of joy and I took that entire cookie dough without taking and stuffed it down the garbage disposal.  And to me that was my first miracle, and you know that I’ve experienced some major healing miracles in my life but this was my first miracle because I couldn’t do that before, food had such a stronghold on me, there is no way I could say no once cookie dough was in front of me.

Sid: Now, I believe that if someone has an addiction of any kind television, sports, whatever it is taking them away from making God #1 in their life whatever that is I believe that if they follow the supernatural principals in your book they will be free also.

Desiree:   Yes, and I know that for fact because I had started some eating support groups and the pastor of a church where I was an assistant pastor started to say “Well, Desiree started to say we have alcoholics, we have drug addicts, we have this that, can they come too?”  And so they started to come also and we just had so many praise reports from people being set free from pornography, to over spending, to eating disorders because it’s the same spiritual principals that you can apply in your life and be set free.

Sid: Desiree you’ve been teaching this and been free for 23 years and teaching others how to be free why did you write the book?

Desiree: Well, I wrote the book because I travel and I would share my testimony and it was probably 2 years ago I was in Washington and I did a church service, I did their youth group, I did like three meetings.  But it was in the youth group when a 16 year old anorexic girl came up and was sobbing and through herself into my arms and said “That you, thank you you’ve brought me so much hope.”  And I was very thankful for doing the testimony but I felt like I only gave her 2 to 3 little things, I didn’t give her everything that God has given me.  And God has been dealing with me for years about writing the book and I started years ago, but I just didn’t feel like I was a writer so I just didn’t complete it. But that one shook me up I thought “I Got to stop traveling and I got to sit down.” And I have to put this in a book so that when I go off to minister now I feel like I given this little 16 year old sweetheart everything she needs it’s all right here in the book, she can use it whenever she wants but there is every key that God gave me through my 6 months course. Because it was a 6 month battle I went through but He taught me so much in His word, through prayer, I’ve put everything in the book, I have not left out anything.  So that’s why I did it; it’s real easy to get the message out.

Sid: In your opinion if someone diligently does what you suggest it looks to me like they’ll move from the natural to the supernatural and really not have a food problem.

Desiree: Exactly, I mean it’s so easy God makes it sooooooo easy.   

Sid: We’re out of time though…

I just pray that what I’m saying you’ll do because there’s no limit to how much God wants to use you in these last days. I mean “Eye has not seen, or ear has not heard what God has in store for you.” I promise you it will not happen unless you build up your spirit man, and that’s what happens when you pray in tongues. You literally, it says “You edify yourself.” Edify is a Greek word that means you charge up your battery. You got to charge up your battery, and you do that by meditating on the word of God, and praying in supernatural languages.

Alright what’s our scripture for this week? I’m gonna personalize it and that’s what I want you doing. I want you saying it out loud many times this week. Acts 10:38 “God anointed me with His Holy Spirit, He smeared His Holy Spirit,” that’s what the word anoint means. “He smeared His Holy Spirit and His power into me.” Can you picture that God is smearing His Holy Spirit and His power HIS POWER into you that allows you to go “about doing good and healing all who are oppressed by the devil,” I mean not just a few people I heal all that are oppressed by the devil, why? Because God is with me, and that’s the way I want you to meditate so let’s work on Acts 10:38.

This week I’m speaking on supernatural tongues and I’m reminded of a friend of mine who was in a horrible situation. An evangelist, his wife left him, and he had 2 small children and he was beside himself. She just picked up after 20 plus years of marriage and said “I’m leaving.” So the only thing I could coach him to do was to pray in tongues for an hour a day. Now of course I told him a lot of comforting things, but he started praying in tongues 1 hour every day. You know what, he went from depression to walking in the greatest signs and wonders he ever walked in in his life. Now I’d like to say the marriage was restored, but of course I come from Washington D.C. and there was a basketball team and the coach was famous for saying “It’s not over till the fat lady sings.” (Laughing) So it’s not over with him till the fat lady sings. The truth of the matter is that God didn’t cause that problem, but because of that problem he became normal. I pray in Jesus name, you pray for an hour a day and you’ll become normal.

Now a lot of people don’t understand it, but there’s different kinds of tongues that are spoken about in the Bible. Just as there are different sports, and each sport has different rules, there’s different rules for these different types of tongues. People that are uninitiated and don’t understand is they put all the rules for all the different types of tongues. That’s sort of like putting football and basketball rules together, it can’t work. No wonder people are so confused. See in 1 Corinthians 12:10 “To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues.” So let’s talk about these “different kinds of tongues.” First, there’s tongues for witnessing to the unsaved in 1 Corinthians 14:22 it says “tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers.” I love this story, I haven’t thought about it in years, but there was a Filipino doctor who was actually a teacher of doctors at Howard University. Caesar, he was catholic, he was not born again, furthermore he was not much interested in spiritual things, but his wife she was on fire for the Lord. She came to a Bible study that I used to have. Christina and the Bible study we would pray for Caesar’s salvation. One day I put my hand on Caesar and I started speaking in tongues. Don’t ask me why the only answer I have is the Holy Spirit pushed me into doing this. So I started praying in tongues. He looked at me, he’s mystified, then he looks angrily at his wife and says “Christina did you tell him those words?” Then he thought “Wait no Christina you couldn’t have done that because it was in my Filipino dialect, although you’re Filipino your dialect is different than my dialect. It was exactly in my dialect.” That’s what it says in the book of Acts “They all heard languages in their dialect” it says in the Greek. So I said “What did I say to you?” and he said “You said perfectly in my language in my,” you know there are like 30 or 40 dialects in the Philippines. I just happen to speak in the Filipino language, I just happen to speak in his dialect. I told him that he must believe in Jesus as the Messiah. That sign caused him to become on fire for Jesus. It’s such a wonderful gift for nonbelievers to witness to them, but that’s just for the unsaved. I don’t have time to go into it, but he did amazing things after he became a believer. I doubt if would have ever become a believer if he didn’t see that supernatural sign.

Then another type of tongues is your personal prayer language. This isn’t public this is your personal prayer language. In 1 Corinthians 14:2 “For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.” So first of all, who are you speaking to? You’re speaking to God. So every time you speak in a supernatural language you are speaking to God. You realize how holy this is; how wonderful this is? I have a little chair that’s opposite me, and when I wake up early in the morning I’m sitting in my chair looking at this other chair and I visualize Jesus sitting in that chair, and I visualize myself speaking to Him. Lately, I’ve been doing something even a step beyond that because according to the Bible Jesus is at the right hand of God the Father, but He’s also inside of us. So I have been concentrating on God inside of me when I pray in tongues. I’m not praying a million miles away in heaven, I’m praying right into the inside of me. You see the difference. I’m now getting conscious of the presence of God. There was a book written many many years ago by a Brother Lawrence it was called “Practicing the Presence of God.” This guy was a dishwasher in a monastery, the lowest job you could have in a monastery, but he practiced the presence of God when he was washing the dishes, whether people were there, whether people were not there. He was with God 24-7. So now that I’m praying in supernatural languages in tongues, I’m also praying to Jesus inside of me. I’m now getting conscious of the fact that God is inside of me; that His presence is inside of me, and everything I’m saying about me that’s true for you, get it. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t be concentrating on that when you pray in tongues. People would start coming to this Brother Lawrence from all over the world literally because when they came to him they experienced the presence of God. That’s where you’re heading. As you meditate on His word, as you speak in unknown tongues.

Beyond the personal prayer language is the congregational meetings. 1 Corinthians 12:28-30 “And God has appointed these in the church,” and that’s the key thing is in the church “varieties of tongues.” In other words, there’s a special gift of tongues for when there’s a big group present. Verse 30 says of 1 Corinthians 12 “Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?” No. Not everyone has the gift of the public speaking in tongues. They mix that up with the private that’s where they get fouled up. Not everyone has the public gift of interpreting tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:15 tells us how Spirit-filled meeting in the first church operated. I’d like to know that wouldn’t you? Well it’s right in the Bible. “I will pray with the spirit, I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, I will also sing with the understanding.” Then verse 26 “How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue,” there it is, “has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.” Then it goes on to tell, these again are the rules in the church. It says for instance “Let there be two or at the most three speaking in tongues” and don’t just speaking in tongues then get an interpretation then you can have another two or three speak in tongues.” It doesn’t say you can only speak in tongues three times, people have misunderstood that. What I love is when first became a believer… I’ tell you this story tomorrow we’ve run out of time unfortunately.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah and I’m praying it’s going to fall right off of him onto you. Eddie James, and Eddie I’ll tell you something that is so in dear to my heart.  I see that you have a burden for the Jew in Israel, you go to Israel, you’ve even done concerts in Israel.  Do many young Israeli’s come there and do any of them get saved?  What’s going on?

Eddie: It’s amazing we go usually once or twice every year. When we go we do outdoor events in Tel Aviv, we do outdoor events in Nazareth and Haifa.  We go to Bethlehem; we go to Jerusalem obviously. We go all over Israel and I usually go around the Christmas holiday season to do this tour where I take the young people I minister to through the word as I’m there in Israel.  But we also do outreaches to reach the community.  I’ll never forget I went to Haifa and a 18 year old drug addict Jew give his life to Jesus.  We were in Tel Aviv we’ve seen kids that were coming out of clubs and pubs giving their life to Jesus.

Sid: Eddie I know something, I know that Israel is ready for a move of God like they’ve never seen before. There are going to be so many people coming to the Lord, I just can’t wait and go out to your next concert.  Because you could be one God is going to use to just explode revival in Israel.  But the miracles that are happening, tell me about the man that was paralyzed from the waist down.

Eddie:   Oh oh okay we were in Columbus, Ohio at World Harvest. We’re singing this song in worship that just speaks of the rivers of living water, just rivers of living water out of your belly shall flow.  And we’re just in the glory and there was a brother that was part of this congregation I knew him for several months before he had a bad fall in construction he was several feet in the air and he had a bad fall, and paralyzed from the waist down.  Sitting in his wheel chair during this worship experience he begins to have feeling come back into his legs and he says to his wife, and his family around he say’s “I can feel my legs, I can feel my legs.” I saw him while I’m up on the platform the worship of explosion of praise having there to the left while I’m standing on the platform.  Well he gets up he decides to get up out of the wheelchair, he begins to walk, he begins to run, pushes the wheelchair and then carries the wheelchair, carrying around the sanctuary completely made whole; completely set free.  Body is completely healed, no one laid hands on him, it was just the presence of God in worship releasing healing on people.

Sid: Can you imagine I’m wondering what his doctor had to say about that, do you know if he went to the doctor?

Eddie: Oh, he went back to the doctor a full report; the x-ray that showed where the damage was before, the doctor’s report said that he’d be paralyzed for the rest of his life.  Took the report from the doctor with the x-ray’s showing that he is completely healed, completely made whole and the doctor… I heard that the doctor was in tears and beyond himself saying “We have never seen anything like this.”

Sid: How about the woman who lost 200 pounds in a worship service?

Eddie:  Ha ha, that was crazy now we’re in Gatlinburg at this youth conference actually. I don’t know if I’ve ever been a part in America of a more powerful Youth Conference where God falls; anybody that was there can tell you it was one of the most grooviest experiences with young people we have ever seen.  We saw about 4 or 500 good kids slain just on the floor just shaking under the power of God.  There was this woman I don’t know what her disease was but whatever it was caused her to gain a lot of weight. She got delivered in that meeting.  Again no one laid hands on her just the glory of God in the meeting.  She lost 200 pounds right there in the meeting, clothes handing off of her; just crazy, crazy miracles that night.

Sid: How about someone that’s homosexual, give me one testimony of some set free.

Eddie:  Okay there’s a guy he’s all over our website his name is Kegan Wesley, probably the most miraculous deliverance of homosexuality I’ve ever witnessed in my entire life.  This young man we picked him up in Louisville, Kentucky. For many of you all that don’t know exactly what I do we have our rescue outreach to high school and college youth coming out of drug addiction and gang life and perverse lifestyles and we care for forty young people every time.  And this was at no cost to them in our homes. We picked this kid up that really wanted to be free and he came when we picked him up in Louisville, Kentucky he had to go back home and meet us in Columbus, Ohio.  He met us at the Potters House in Columbus, Ohio, that day the Lord delivered that kid from homosexuality. I’m telling you it’s a ripped way I thought the kid was a girl at first, he looked like a female, he looked like a women, changed his mannerism he changed his mind set to one of the strongest witnesses of homosexuality.  He is winning so many homosexuals to the Lord it’s just phenomenal what KOS…

Sid: Now he is really a new creation, I want you to hear Eddie James in “New Creation.”

Excerpt: “New Creation”

Sid:  I have on the telephone a man that normal for him is abnormal for most Christians; normal for him is to do the stuff he sees in the New Covenant. His name, Pastor Bill Johnson, Senior pastor of Bethel Church in Redding California.  Bill your latest book “The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind.”  I happen to like the subtitle better, the subtitle is “Access to a Life of Miracles.” Most Christians believe in miracles or they wouldn’t be a Christian.  To me the two don’t go together, however, it’s a big mystery to most Christians.  It’s not a mystery to you what was the purpose of this book, “The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind?”

Bill:  We have a sense of obligation indebtedness to the Lord to produce a life of miracles, He’s set up everything to where it’s possible. The only remaining factor is what are we going to do with what He given us?  And so my purpose in writing that book is to encourage and motivate the Body of Christ to pursue what He made available to us. When the Spirit of the resurrected Christ comes to reside in our physical body, a powerlessness become inexcusable.  God has made it possible for us to seek His face, to have divine encounters so that we can bring others into a Divine encounter.

Sid:  Okay Bill, the Body is divided in many different flavors if you will.

Bill:  Sure.

Sid:  But let’s say the Charismatic Pentecostal type people talk about miracles, believe in miracles, but see very few why?

Bill:  Well, we don’t… a relationship with the Holy Spirit is primarily theory, we love the idea of Him empowering us but it’s been mostly for comfort in the hard times instead of learning how to cooperate with Him.  Jesus gave us the secret to miracles, He said, “I only do what I see My Father do, I only say what I hear Him Say.”  Which means He is aware of Heaven, the heartbeat of Heaven, He’s aware of the passion of the Father, and He’s simply works to mimic, or to copy, or to demonstrate what is going on in the heart of the Father here on earth.

Sid:  But a lot of people say “I believe it and they go out and they…I remember myself as a new believer I started reading the New Testament, I got so excited and my daughter who’s a married woman with children now, at that time was a little girl and she was sick and I laid my hands on her and she wasn’t healed.  And then I remember today even she said to me “How come Jesus didn’t heal me?”  You know these were times where I didn’t have any mentors, I have an answer today, but what would you say to that little girl and that father if they came to your study.

Bill:  We have people all the time that come and don’t get healed we have to deal with that on a constant basis. The problem isn’t on God’s end of the equations, the problem’s on our end.  He’s the one that made a baptism of fire available. If a person is not getting a breakthrough as they pray for people then they must have a more profound encounter with God.  And the only way to do that is with fasting, prayer, setting time aside to seek the face of God until He touches us.  If we look throughout history those who were just so disturbed that they weren’t able to produce the life of Christ in affect of with miracles signs and wonders. When they set aside time to just cry out to God for more, not matter the cost God met them and these folks became household names.  But they didn’t start that way, they started as people that were frustrated with their own personal lack of anointing, their own personal lack of power.  You can’t give away what you don’t have and the only way to get it is as basically two ways one is seeking the face of the Lord, the second is through impartation.  But impartation from other people doesn’t replace the need to seek God’s face personally.  But there is a grace that people walk in a grace, a gifting from God to work in the miraculous that when they lay hands on you and pray it comes in seed form, but if you use what was given to you and just simply don’t stop it will grow to maturity.  Gifts come free, maturity is expensive.

Sid:  You know as you sharing this I’m thinking about many of the great men and woman of God that I’ve interviewed over the years and what your saying is what my experience is.  Most of them, I remember Rodney Howard Brown saying I went into a room and I said “God I’m not coming out until you touch me or take me home.”  But I mean it was that type of desperation that got that presence of God on him and now from what I understand it’s there, you know it doesn’t leave, but he had that moment of desperation.

Bill:  Yes, it’s been my cry as well I had a profound encounter with the Lord as a result of continuous prayer night and day for about eight months. The Lord just came upon me in power was October of ’96 and it changed everything since then.

Sid:  Tell me just a little bit about that moment what was it like?

Bill:  Oh, it’s hard to describe, but the Lord came to me in 3:00 in the morning with such power that I had no control over my limbs, my body I had no ability to control my legs, my arms. It was as though a thousand volts of electricity was pulsating through my body.  I had, I ministered to an individual the night before and told them that God was going to visit them and it could be at 3:00 in the morning.

Sid:  Hmm.

Bill:  And when he showed up in my room I saw the clock and the only thing I could move with control was my head, I turned my head towards the clock, it was 3:00 AM exactly and I said out loud, You set me up because I remembered that word I had given a friend of mine.  And the only thing that I knew was that I had no control of my limbs and He reminded me that I had prayed for more of Him at any cost. And He was asking me, reminding me what any cost looks like, that I may never be able to function as a normal human being again.  To be honest with you I didn’t know if I would ever recover the use of my arms and legs.  And as I laid there in the bed with the tears going down the side of my face onto the pillowcase I knew He was asking, I said at any cost, so He was wanted to know if I was willing to look foolish for Him. If I was willing to sacrifice or give up my dignity and I said, “Yes, if I get You in the exchange you can have anything you can make me look anyway you want.”  And that particular encounter lasted all night long lifted in the morning.  I got up and it happened three nights in a row where I just simply had no use, no control over my limbs, it sounds very strange, but something happened, you know I don’t know how to describe it but something happened where everything is different as a result of that.  But I said yes to more of Him at any cost even if it meant I couldn’t function in life as a normal human being if it meant I was sidelined for the rest of my life as a result of a God encounter.  You know Jacob limped the rest of his life, and if it meant I couldn’t function normally that was fine with me if I got Him in the exchange.

Sid:   Now what were you doing, I think you said, “Eight months previous.”

Bill:  I had been to Toronto, I had seen things happen there that we had experienced several years earlier but I didn’t know how to maintain it.  I said “God I’ve got to have more of your, I’ve seen what I know to be true and I give you the rest of my life for this.”  And so I just begin to pray day and night, “God I know there’s more and I’m thankful, but I’m not satisfied.”  And I would wake myself up praying, and I would actually be praying while I was sleeping and wake myself up praying, and this just went on for eight months.

Sid:  Now were you praying mostly with your understanding, or in unknown tongues or both?

Bill:  Both, both, both, both but there was a lot in the understanding, I mean obviously in a moment like that you run out of words and so you pray in the Spirit. I was real specific I knew that that God touched people powerfully throughout history and I didn’t want to miss my chance, I didn’t want to live a whole life knowing that there was more available that I didn’t, that I didn’t grab a hold of so I just cried out.

Sid:  Just out of curiosity in this last week or so, what type of miracles have you seen or heard of from your people or yourself praying, just this last week or so?

Bill:  Just this last week we’ve had three different, in fact yesterday I met with our staff we had three testimonies of Parkinson’s disease healed, we’ve never had that many in one week.  We had a woman that was healed while I gave a testimony during the service Sunday morning or Rheumatoid Arthritis. Another gal was there who had just joined us five weeks ago she had to be fed and bathed by her husband, she was in a wheelchair she couldn’t move her limbs.  Her testimony came forth Sunday; she was healed of Rheumatoid Arthritis as well.  A father met me at the back door and reminded me of praying for his mentally retarded adoptive son about six months ago and they’ve taken him back to have tests and he’s completely normal God has completely healed him.  We’ve had testimonies this week of cancer, we had a gal healed; we shared the testimony this week and actually happened three weeks ago, but she was a missionary from Sudan who had a dream Jesus came to her in the night and said, “If you go to Redding I’ll heal you.”  She had fibromyalgia, she had multiple sclerosis, she had ME and the West Nile Virus, all four of those diseases and she could barely walk 10 – 15 feet without getting winded.  And prayed for three weeks ago Sunday night and she was completely healed, she’s heading back to the mission field this week.

Sid:  Bill, our times slipping away…Mispochah do you like what you hear?  Bill says and I say and better than that God says that is normal; it’s time you get normal.

Sid: My guest Mickey Robinson I’m speaking to him at his home in Nashville, Tennessee. August 15, 1968 he was doing a routine jump, he loved the idea of sky diving it was his passion, he was invincible.  As a kid he wanted to be Superman and that was the closes he could get to flying through the sky and so he’s up for this routine jump and all of a sudden the engine quits it crashes, he should have died, but a brave man pulled him out of the plane.  He had third degree burns over something like 30% of his body; he brain injuries, blind in one eye, ulcers, went down to 90 pounds of weight.  Pain so unbearable that drugs couldn’t do anything for him and the doctors basically they called in specialists there’s no hope, they called in his family and the doctors said he wouldn’t out live this afternoon.  At that point Mickey something happened in your body, describe this to me.

Mickey:  First Sid, I just want to explain I had zero communication with anybody about the spiritual dynamics other than what I leaned as being raised in a church a formal liturgical church.

Sid: You were not born again.

Mickey:  I never heard of anybody that ever was, I heard all about Jesus but never heard of or met anybody who explained Jesus or the power of God or anything.

Sid: You’re part of most of Christian America then from what you’re describing, but go ahead.

Mickey:  In that state of absolute medically they said had no hope waiting for the moment for me to die. Suddenly my inner-man my spirit sat up out of my body and then it was ejected as if I was extracted out and it was like instantly projected into a spiritual world that I now know was referred to as the second heaven. Instantly I knew that this spirit being is the real me you know. A lot of people really want to know what was it like.  The most impacting thing first was the consciousness of eternity. You see as long as we’re on the physical plane we’re always aware of time, you and I got up this morning and likely to go to go to sleep at night.  Somebody is born they’ll die; something is new it gets old, everything on the earthly plane or anything in the physical anything that is physically created is relative to time but everything I the realm of the spirit if is eternal.  And the reality was instantaneous and it was stunning that’s all I could say and everything about it is like it’s like it’s not logic and reasoning you just know that you know.  It’s what we know now that it’s revelation it’s constant in the realm of the spirit the colors are brighter, the feelings are…

Sid: You went from chronic pain where drugs could not help to what was it a euphoric feeling?

Mickey:  Well, first of all I was totally free from the realm of the earth, and I was  I was not conscious of pain, not conscious of any suffering; I was amazed at who I really was which is a spirit man.  Every person that’s alive is a spirit being; we are a spirit soul and we live in a body.  And the immature part which was being projected was being carried out of my body is that my physical body was laying there you know in a death state on bed.  I was traveling the spirit realm and then out of…

Sid: And then medically speaking you died?

Mickey:  Yes.

Sid: Go ahead.

Mickey:  And out in front of me at a distance I was being drawn to like a white corridor, or a white light that was so bright and so white it was white as snowfield. It was brighter than the sun shining noonday.  I looked right at it and was being drawn and it was very alluring you talk about euphoric it was like it was like going somewhere and it was very liberating and it was this intense sense of like going somewhere like traveling somewhere.  It was like one spiritual state to another.

Sid: From the Second Heaven to the Third Heaven; how did it compare to sky diving?

Mickey:  Skydiving is not even a weak imitation.

Sid: You were a man that the ultimate in life was skydiving, and that’s why I wanted that analogy.

Mickey:  Well, everything about the realm of the spirit is stunning. It’s like Earth at its greatest is like flat two dimensional way in compared to like 3-D color, if I give an example.  It’s another dimension the spirit world, I was traveling through there and staring this bright light and experiencing eternity sense, and then all of a sudden I could feel something on my right side and when I turned to look I saw something, it is something that’s blacker than black.  I also had a spiritual perception of the nature of this, it was a bottomless pit with no bottom.  There is no life, there is no matter, there is no opportunity, also I could feel also that it was eternal and in it was absolute hopelessness, eternal separation from the source of the hope of any opportunity for anything, what’s called the outer darkness.

Sid: Out of curiosity if before someone had said “Are you a Christian” would you have answered yes to no?

Mickey:  Well, I wasn’t even really hearing that term; I was raised Roman Catholic, I’d probably said “I’m Catholic.”

Sid: Or if someone had said “Will you go to Heaven,” what would you have said?

Mickey:  Honestly I really don’t know, I would have probably thought, “I’m a pretty good person I’ll probably go to Heaven I’ve done all the stuff they say you’re supposed to do.”

Sid: Okay but now you have come to the realization that you’re going eternally separated; what do you do about it?

Mickey:  Let me tell you the difference I had never heard anything about the plan how you get to know God.  I never heard the gospel preached in a personal way. When they took me in the ambulance for the first time in my life Mr. Invincible, Superman, James Bond all rolled into one knew that I was in some real deep yogurt this time.  My good looks, my talent nothing was going to get me out of this and I said “God I’m sorry give me another chance.” At times when there was so many surgeries when they’re going to put you to sleep and you know it’s serious, I mean I didn’t  realize how bad I was really hurt because I was a battered state, but I just said “God please give me another chance I’m sorry.” So 4:00 in the morning they give you largest lethal dose that’s permitted and it has absolutely no effect for the pain, they give you the largest dose of morphine permitted and it has no affect you’re going to go crazy. Just said “God I’m sorry just give me another chance.”   Now it’s just sweeping in front of me more that it does the more intense the knowledge of eternal separation and I began to cry out “God I want to live, I’m sorry give me another chance.” And just before I’m swallowed by this black outer darkness I’m standing in the presence of Almighty God. Instantaneously I knew I would never die for eternity and I was experiencing instantaneously like bursting into a light I was experiencing the undiluted love of God and it’s indescribable.  It wasn’t coming through music, it wasn’t coming through scripture, it wasn’t coming through a gift of the Holy Spirit it was God Himself directly and just pouring His love into me as a son.  That little weak “I am sorry” got me to the cross of Jesus Christ. I don’t understand the grace of God to that extent.  I didn’t do anything you know in my life obviously to deserve anything, you know in my life to deserve anything, I was living you know like everybody else doing my own thing trying to be a cool guy.  But I saw this darkness and through the crack of that light I stood before God and Sid the glory of the Lord is so incredible.

Sid: Now when you say glory what do you mean by that?

Mickey:  I was standing in what was a river that was flowing from the throne of God you could see the throne of God but on my left flowing from the left to the right.  If you and I could imagine, if the listeners could imagine, see with your eyes invisible radiation. It looked like a river of glowing that had golden flecks in it, and flowing from left to the right in front of me, it was behind me, it was underneath me, and going right through me, and this river is alive, it is an extension of God’s glory.  And I was more alive than anything that you could imagine than being alive You see because your spirit is tuned to the frequency of God. It’s searching for that vibration of God’s love and His glory.  At one with God the most profound way and all of God’s love, and knowing that God’s going to take care I just knew no one had to tell me I mean the knowledge of God surpasses human thought, human understanding. It’s knowing at a higher level that I was going to live forever that God was going to take care forever and His glory was absolutely transforming me.  And then after a season you have to understand that in this realm, in the third Heaven, there is no time you’re experiencing like eternity and the Lord showed me like a screen like today’s TV I began to have a vision of seeing people and places that were to encompass the next 7 years the next second the next minute.

Sid: Mickey, tell me one thing that the Lord showed you that happened in the future.

Mickey:   This is pretty significant I saw my wife Barbara 5 years before I ever met her and saw the house that we were going to live in 6 years before we ever lived there. I could literally smell the flowers that surrounded the house, we were going to have our children and start our ministry.  There was a path leading from the house to a gate that went out to a barn we had horses and I could literally smell the fragrance of the lilac bushes 6 years before it ever occurred.  It’s like being there the vision is just as real as reality in the Heavenly realm.  When I saw Barbara I had really prayed for God to send the woman that He wanted for me. So it was obvious she was not just your average good looking young woman, it was my destiny.

Sid: Mickey we’re running out of time right now.  I have two CD’s the title is “Show Me Your Glory” in which you had such revelation of this realm in which you teach.  And when you teach people literally experience that Glory and have a deep revelation of what happens during worship a deeper revelation of how important prayer are.