Is there a supernatural dimension, a world beyond the one we know? Is there life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? Sid Roth has spent over 35 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid for this edition of It’s Supernatural.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guests say that if you do not understand your dreams, you will miss much of your destiny for the last days. But if you’re like me, these symbol books of dreams, these big books of symbols, I’m just too practical. If I can’t understand I’m going to toss it out. But it’s so simple they teach children how to understand their dreams. And this is what they say. They say everyone can understand their dreams. Everyone has dreams and God is going to speak things to you you’ll never get in your natural mind. You will hear God better than you have before. Do you want to learn? Me, too. Mark, our producers are so excited about your understanding of how we can understand dreams and visions. You say that our dreams are absolutely the easiest way we can hear from God. Why do you say that?

MARK: Because dreams come from our heart and thinking comes from our head. And when we go to sleep at night our heart stays awake and our heart communicates to us without having to go through the bottleneck of our brain. And Jesus lives in our heart. When I got saved I invited Jesus into my heart. So now we have heart to heart communication without my brain muddling up the works. So dreams are simple, they’re easy, they bypass the mind, they give me direct revelation, spirit to spirit, heart to heart.

SID: Well Charity, why are dreams so important?

CHARITY: Dreams are so important because God says they are.

SID: Well that should be good enough.

CHARITY: Exactly. Over and over in the Bible he says he’ll reveal himself to us in visions, he’ll speak to us in dreams, and he says that he’ll open our ears and seal our instruction, and turn us from wrong-doing, and keep us from pride. And I love with it says in Songs of Solomon. It talks about how dreams are God’s contingency plan, because it says that, “When we’re asleep our heart is awake to commune with our beloved.” So when our mind shuts down, we are kind of deified and put in place of God. When that thing rests at night we go to our hearts and that’s where God lives. Ephesians 3:17, “God lives in our hearts.” So we want to live out of our hearts as well and commune with our beloved, and he speaks with us wonderful counsel and revelation every single night through our dreams.

SID: Mark, what about someone that says, I don’t have dreams or visions. That’s just not me. What would you say to them?

MARK: I would say what they should be saying is I don’t recall my dreams and visions, because they do have dreams. Every single night everybody does and they’ve proven that in sleep laboratories. Because in a sleep laboratory they can watch and tell when you begin to dream, because when you begin to dream your eyes begin to flicker back and forth, and it’s called REM sleep, R-E-M, rapid eye movement. And if they wake a person up whenever they see their eyes begin to move and don’t let them dream, after three days they’re going to enter into a nervous breakdown, which shows how important and central dreams are for our emotional well being.

SID: Now most people that teach on dreams have a big book on symbols and all you do is look in the book for your symbol, but you don’t go along with that. Why?

CHARITY: You’re right. People have complained to us and told us, when we try to do that we want to make sense of our dreams and we jump online, or we look at the dream symbol dictionary, we feel more confused at the end after we looked it up. This doesn’t make sense. This doesn’t feel right. And so they’re like, dream interpretation, this is crazy. But the dream symbol dictionaries, they do not take into account your own personal experiences, your own unique perceptions, your own individual perspective on things. For example, if I dream of a dog and I love dogs, that’s great. But if you dream of a dog and you were viciously attacked by a dog, well that’s going to say two totally different things depending on who is dreaming it.

SID: You know what I found? When I talk to these dream experts, so to speak, and I give them my dreams, each one gives me a different interpretation. So what I did, Mark, was I just tossed the thing out except for literal dreams. And I do get literal dreams, but they’re very infrequent. Most of my dreams are the way most of your dreams are, but I’m never going to throw out God speaking to me again. And you make it so simple. Have you heard that before from others, Charity?

CHARITY: Definitely. We’ve tried, to enter the Kingdom of Heaven you have to be like a little child. So if we complicate it more than a little kid can do then we’ve made it too hard.

SID: Now I’ve read a scripture that it says, “The wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous.” Did you know that God is in a wealth transfer right now and he wants to speak to you through dreams and visions? And when we come back, I’m going to ask Dr. Mark to tell us some famous things that have been developed through dreams and visions. But you can get wisdom. You can get solutions to family problems. You can get business ideas. I mean, let’s face it. If every night you could hear from God it would be heaven on Earth. We’ll be right back.

We’ll be right back to It’s Supernatural.

Sid:  I have a guest this week that is going get to your thinking straightened out because there is so much confusion in what is called “Word of Faith Teaching.” Let me tell you a little bit about myself. You know when Jewish people, and that’s my background I’m Jewish. When Jewish people come to the Lord if you will we’re at the mercy of the people that lead us to the Lord. If someone happens to be Catholic that leads us to the Lord we end up being Catholic. If they happen to be charismatic we end up being charismatic. If they happen to be fundamental we end up being fundamental. Well many of the people that came into my path when I became a new believer were into Word of Faith Teaching. I jumped in hook, line, and sinker, but I have a very pragmatic side and I found for me that it wasn’t working. It was working for others because I heard them say it, but for me it wasn’t working. I kind of distanced myself from it, then I had an unfortunate thing happen. A friend of mine that was very strong in the Word of Faith Teaching, strongest person I know in that arena, died of a serious illness. I was there when he died and the day before he said “I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord.” He was doing everything right, he was dotting every “i”, he was crossing every “t” and that put me in a bit of a tailspin.  But here’s where I’m at now, and I’ve been a believer almost 30 years in the Lord and I believe that God is a faith God. I believe that God’s promises in the Bible are from Him and are true. I believe that there is as much healing in the atonement as there is forgiveness of sin. The best thing we have is meditating on God’s word in reference to physical healing, and standing on the promises despite what is going on with the circumstances of our life and get as close to God as possible. I believe through faith and patience we will inherit the promises, but then when the teaching on prosperity came it really through me for a loop because I saw so much lust, and so much greed, and so much the opposite of what I read about in the word of God especially the words of Jesus it really turned me off. So when I found out about Gary Carpenter whose ministry is in Tulsa, Oklahoma it got me so excited. Gary tell me what happened with you in reference to Word of Faith Teaching and in particular prosperity.

Gary:  Well I was pretty much like you the person that led me to the Lord brought me right into the Word of Faith movement. I listened to all of the tapes, I went to all of the camp meetings by the prominent teachers we got saved my wife and I and Spirit filled in 1980. We was living Tulsa there’s a lot of conventions here and so we would go to all of them. I was probably taught pretty much the same principles and teachings that you were. The thing of it is the men I still have a lot of respect for, and I’m not sure what they were teaching is exactly the way I heard it. The way I heard it this gospel was all about me (laughing).  In other words, the focus was on me, my house, my cars, my prosperity, whether they meant it that way or not that’s the way I heard it. Everything that was taught every principle such as the 100 fold return and we could just go down the list. I’ll say it this way, I’ve been down every one of those rabbit trails. It may or may not have been working for them, you know they say it was and perhaps it was, I never could make it work for me. We floundered pretty much that was what we were, you know what we cut our teeth on when we became Christians. But I got pretty disillusioned pretty much like you say. It didn’t really change for me until 1992 and that’s the year that Sue and I began attending Pastor Dave Roberson’s church here in Tulsa called the Family Prayer Center. It’s amazing the timing of the Lord Dave was teaching a series just as we began there. In that series he was saying “You know there’s really nothing wrong with faith, without faith it’s impossible to please Him.” Hebrews 11:6 I believe says that “Without faith it’s impossible to please Him. He that comes to God must be that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.”

Sid:  You know what I like to do Gary is a… what I consider a better definition than the word “Faith” is I usually insert the word “Trust.”

Gary:  Yes.

Sid:  And when you insert the word “trust” instead of the word “faith,” I mean you have to be stupid to not believe that without trust you can’t please God.

Gary:  Well that’s for sure you know. My children if I found out they didn’t trust me, if they didn’t trust my words to them that would hurt me tremendously it certainly wouldn’t please me.  It pleases me when they trust daddy, and it pleases our Father when we trust Him.

Sid:  So you were exposed to this teaching and what difference did it make?

Gary:  Well Dave he said “There’s nothing wrong with the faith movement but now here’s the problem what is decreed by the faith man. ‘Well I’m not moved by what I see, I’m not moved by what I feel, I’m only moved by the word of God.’” Well that’s true but without the leadership of the Holy Spirit you may start down a certain path but it’s not really His direction for your life. So God starts sending all kind of warning signals and flags going “Wrong path wrong way” but you’re a faith man you’re not moved by any of that and so you just keep going. Dave says “Faith is good, God is trustworthy but we are to be led by His Spirit not by our own desire.” Then he began to teach us how we could become more in attune to voice and the leadership of the Holy Spirit, His guiding. As anyone who knows Pastor Dave Roberson very well knows he teaches very… expounds a lot on praying in the spirit, praying in other tongues. What Pastor Dave calls the mortification, edification process.

Sid:  But you knew this you had been charismatic for a while, speaking in tongues for a while before you wondered into his church. What’s the difference?

Gary:  Oh the difference is tremendous. I think I was like most charismatics in those days you get up in the morning you quote 2 or 3 scriptures, you spend maybe 10 or 15 minutes praying in other tongues and you’ve pretty well had your fellowship time, at least that was most of the ones that I knew. What Dave is talking about a combination of 2 things, he really taught us how to meditate, really, on the word of God leaving every scripture in context, never lifting a verse out of its setting, and he also told us and taught us to spend hours praying in other tongues giving the Holy Spirit time to communicate those mysteries like it says in 1^st Corinthians 14:2 “He that speaks to God, he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men but unto God. How be it in the spirit he speaketh mysteries…” but we’re not speaking mysteries to God that He doesn’t understand. The Holy Spirit is communicating with us mysteries that we don’t understand, and a big part of that is our very calling, what is God wants us to do in the body of Christ what it is we are to accomplish for the kingdom while we are on earth. After hearing Dave’s message… now here’s something I say all the time, when I first started hearing Dave a common thing that I said “I have been burned by so many well-meaning preachers in the past. Pastor Dave I love you, I appreciate you but no matter what you say it’s not scripture until I find it (laughing).” So everything he would teach I would take every verse I would go to the Bible, I would check it out. I did that process for about 6 months. We began in June of 1992 and it was December of 1992 before I finally concluded after checking every scripture, checking it in context, I could find nothing wrong with the messages it sure sounded right.  So I made a commitment, at the time I was driving long-haul trucks across the country. I said “Lord I’m stuck in the cab of this truck anyway I’m just going to turn of the CB, I’m going to turn off the radio. If I’m in the cab of this truck I’m just going to make it my prayer closet and I will be praying.”

Sid:  Now what is the difference you understood praying in tongues before why all of a sudden you were motivated?

Gary:  After listening to Pastor Dave I never understood that those long periods of time spent praying in other tongues, that praying in other tongues is a revelation gift. That is one method, a very effective method where the Holy Spirit Himself you know like a teacher in college. Every hour you give Him it’s like a teacher standing at the blackboard communicating and teaching your reborn human spirit everything that Christ is in you, to you, and through you. As I began that process things that I had heard I had heard other men teach these same faith principles and things out of the Bible but the way I say it now “You know it’s hard to live on another man’s faith.” I knew the principles in my head but the problem was I couldn’t make them work for me.

Sid:  I’ll get a little sarcastic right now Lord forgive me, it’s easy to leave to live on another man’s faith if you’re teaching it and giving up an offering.

Gary:  (Laughing)

Sid:  However, where the rubber meets the road it doesn’t work.

Gary:  That was the problem, in fact it’s amazing you say that because in the 80’s, again the late 80’s before I started at Pastor Dave’s…

Sid:  Hmm. Hm.

Gary:  …I had learned all of those faith principles. I’m a good student, I had studied and learned. I did teach those principles (laughing) I taught them just as well as the men that I learned them from. People would ask me questions I didn’t have to go back and check any notes I knew there message. I knew it in my head but I could not make it work for me, and the big problem there is I really didn’t know the Lord very well. I knew the message but I didn’t know the Lord not in an intimate way, not in a day by day relationship way…

Sid:  Out of curiosity with the hours, and you were a truck driver, so you could devote long periods of time praying in unknown tongues. Did your intimacy with God increase as a result of that?

Gary:  Oh! My whole world is different, everything about our life is different. All of my… how do I say this, I have no agendas of Gary Carpenter anymore. All of those kind of aspirations during that process died. The more time you spend communicating and fellowshipping with the Holy Spirit that the more intimate relationship He develops between you and the Lord.

Sid:  Woops we’re out of time!

Sid:  My guest by way of telephone if you’re not red hot by the time you listen to this week’s broadcast or read his book “Future Wave” you will be. His name is Ed Hindson he’s the assistant chancellor at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. He is the new dean of the Tim LaHaye School of Prophecy in Lynchburg. His specialty as you might guess is Bible Prophecy end-time scenarios. He’s teamed up with a futurist a high-tech man by the name of Lee Frederickson come out with a brand new book called “Future Wave” that the greatest science fiction writers of our day I don’t think they even came close to speculating what’s available today. For instance, you were talking Ed on an earlier broadcast about implanting into the brain a microchip that would allow a human to become a super human that would have wonderful benefits from the viewpoint of controlling health and helping people to live longer. To be able to get all the information in the Library of Congress just by thinking a thought and the computer chip would just be like a regular computer except you’re walking around with it you don’t even have to plug into electricity. Has anyone actually attempted to put this chip inside of a human?

Ed:  Actually one of the researchers in this area did have done to himself and wanted to see how this would work, how this could be effective and eventually found himself communicating with himself so much that his own wife got jealous that she couldn’t get his attention. Like a guy who has his face in the computer all the time and doesn’t even want to come to the dinner table, the computer was in his mind.

Sid:  But can you imagine if the kid doesn’t have to go up to his room to the computer he could be in the computer as he’s having dinner.

Ed:  Exactly or anywhere. It’s going to affect how we communicate with each other, how we deal with each other. Right now on a much lower level for example, people will be talking on their cell phone in the middle of church. It’s not that somebody’s alarm watch went off in the middle of the sermon now, now people are talking on their cell phone in the middle of the sermon because somebody beeped in on them. You’ve got people responding with email devices right from their seat wherever they are. You’re going to end up with people having these things in their brain. Wireless communication transfer of information from one computer to another. This computer is only going to be the size of a computer chip that’s the difference. Somebody could be there listening to you preach the sermon but he could be downloading information about other things. Now the neat side of that is you could be talking about Jesus going to Jerusalem and he could download information about Jerusalem if he wanted to. He could also be downloading the Three Stooges in a movie and not paying one bit of attention to what you are saying. It’s going to be more and more of a challenge to get people’s attention in the future, keep it focused, and keep it focused on the word of God.

Sid:  What do you see as the future to education?

Ed:  I think the future in education is we’re going to move more and more towards what institutions call today “External Study Programs.” When schools first began to do this kind of thing whether they did it through correspondence courses, or they did it through audio tapes, then video tapes were a big thing. With Liberty we pioneered video education externally fully accredited. There were people that complained “Oh this isn’t real education” now everybody is doing this. Every school in the country has video courses. Now they’re moving to internet courses and pretty soon the information can be transferred right directly to your own brain. You won’t have to pick up and go away to school anymore school will come to you. Instantaneous language translation means you can study under a professor in university that you did not know the language. So that a Gentile for example could study at the Hebrew University under an archaeology professor like Dothan and get all of her information about excavation of Philistine sites automatically in English.

Sid:  There’ll be no need to learn a foreign language.

Ed:  No it’ll be gone. You’ll have… the “Global Brain” is what the educational technology people are calling it. It’s going to be information on an internet kind of a system, wireless transformation and communication of that information right directly into your own brain. There won’t even be a need for a teacher necessarily on site. The challenge with all of that is that means eventually the people who control the technology will control the mind.

Sid:  But in affect today doesn’t television control this generation?

Ed:  Oh yeah totally!

Sid:  But you’re saying even greater.

Ed:  Even greater direct control right into the mind. It’s just like you have to shut your computer off at the end of the day, you’re going to have to shut this thing or its going to be with you 24 hours a day and influencing… you can also communicate the gospel through that means which will be a tremendous opportunity and option for people.

Sid:  Now where do economics fit in to the whole education mode of the future?

Ed:  Well I think money drives the system ultimately. The educational institutions cannot afford to continue to expand at the rate that they’ve been expanding. Almost all of them are financially challenged and therefore this becomes a cheaper, quicker, less costly way to communicate not only the information you want taught but you don’t need as large as a faculty, you don’t need as large of a library. Students today don’t even go to the library they download everything on their computer from the library. The books are there but nobody’s checking them out. They’re getting all of it off the computer and there’s a lack of discernment in doing that. I’ve found even with students writing a paper for me in a Bible prophecy class like on the book of Daniel. They’ll download… they’ll just type in words and concepts and just pull up whatever is available on the net. Some of it is very legitimate research, some of it’s crazy stuff that some guy put on his website and they can’t discern the difference which tells me that eventually that’s how the anti-Christ will control how people think. Just like a librarian selectively starts to eliminate certain books you just start eliminating electronically certain information and pretty soon it’s not there, and if it’s not there the new generation functions as though it was never there.

Sid:  Well and of course the books of the future will all be the internet.

Ed:  Exactly electronic books.  Lee the co-author of “Future Wave” is a specialist in this area. He says that you’re going to have electronic books and electronic newspapers. They call them e-books and an e-newspaper in which you download this information onto something that looks like paper it might even feel like paper but it’s not really paper it’s a screen. You can get today’s news on it then blank the whole thing out then download it again tomorrow and get tomorrow’s news on it. You can get one book on it eliminate that and bring in another book. If you want to print it you hit the print button and you print the thing. The way we give information and the way we get information changes dramatically in the next few years.

Sid:  So someone or some group could literally control what we think, I mean we were talking earlier this week about once the chip is inside of the brain they can transmit… remember the subliminal advertising they used to have in movies were so quick you wouldn’t even see it with your eye. It would say “Buy popcorn” and more people would buy popcorn. They’ll be able to do this with the brain.

Ed:  Yeah and that’s the scary part because you won’t even see it flip by for a split second. This will be in the brain for a split second and in there it’s going be more effective you’ll have more people buying popcorn so to speak than ever before. Or doing anything else, that communication could say “Obey the law. Follow the rules.” Or it could tell you to rise up in rebellion and overthrow the government.

Sid:  Boy this stuff gets scary. With the positives which we brought out we’ll be able to control diabetes, control blood pressure, control all of the various diseases of society through these chips. There’s wonderful things that will occur but there’s equally negative things that’ll occur. So how should we spiritually respond?

Ed:  I think we have to do 3 things:

1. I think as Christians we have to not run away from the technology. It’s a God given human intelligence that enables human beings to develop these things. We all appreciate the benefits of the lightbulb we don’t want to live with candles anymore. We understand the value of radio and television etcetera so we need to understand the technology can be used for good and find ways to use it most effectively.
2. We also have to be discerning enough to realize that one of the dangers of technology is you become so dependent on it you can’t function without it. Don’t just sit around with your face in a computer screen all day long whether it’s as big as a television set or as small as a watch. Get out and enjoy nature go fishing, have your time with your family. We can communicate with the world but we can’t communicate with each other.
3. I think prophetically we have to be discerning enough to realize that all of this is only moving us many many steps closer to a world that can be controlled by an individual and an individual system. Everything the Bible predicts about the coming of the anti-Christ, the control of a global economy and a world government is going to be made possible by the development of technology so we have to understand there’s a danger in all of this as well as a positive.

Sid:  Ed you’ve written this book “Future Wave,” do you sense that this is not just an ordinary book, but this is a book that’ll light a fire under people?

Ed:  Our hope is that it will help first of all people like me who are not into every nuance of technology. Understand what in the world is going today it blew my mind. Then for people like Lee the co-author who are really at the cutting edge of using technology to be able to raise words of caution to us as to where this is going. Many of the seminaries right now have whole new programs and bioethics and how to raise ethical and spiritual questions and issues that are going to be impacted by the development of technology especially in a biological medical field. But there’s technology going on in the educational field, in the transportation field all of these things are going to impact the way we live life today. So I think the challenge in “Future Wave” is if you don’t understand what’s been happening and what’s going to happen this book is a wonderful introduction.

Sid:  My guest by way of telephone is the assistant chancellor of Liberty University. I’m speaking to him at his office in Lynchburg, Virginia. His name is Ed Hindson. He’s teamed up with a futurist a high-tech man by the name of Lee Frederickson and they’ve written a book called “Future Wave.” The greatest science fiction writers of our day didn’t even come close to what’s inside this book that is actually happening today in the infancy if you will, but time is speeding up so quickly. Now Ed your specialty is end-time Bible prophecy. So based on your knowledge now of what’s going on in technology and your knowledge of the Bible, what do you think the mark will be? What do you think the anti-Christ will be? Will he be a person? Will he be a system? Will he be a robot? What is your sanctified speculation based on technology and the Bible as to what we will see when that anti-Christ is in operation?

Ed:  Sid I think we have to begin with what does the Bible say about him. Then look at where is technology today and then do the speculating about what all of that could mean. I think the scripture makes it very clear that first of all the ant-Christ is a person. He’s referred to as “He” in the masculine as specific man, a man of sin, a man of lawlessness, a son of perdition etcetera. He as god sits in the temple of god claiming that he is god. So you get all of these personalized masculine descriptions. He’s a human being, he’s an individual, he gains control of the world and the world system. Economically, I think technologically, then ultimately setting up a global government and a global military system as well. But on the other you also have passages in scripture that talk about his kingdom about his system, about his government etcetera. Not only does the anti-Christ come under the judgment of Jesus Christ at His return and he’s cast into the lake of fire. You also have the whole system of anti-Christ described symbolically as Babylon that is destroyed and burned up. It’s a city, it’s a government, it’s a place it’s the materialistic intellectual headquarters of the world etcetera. So I think we have to look at both aspects of Bible prophecy. John, Jesus’ disciple way back in the 1^st century said “The anti-Christ is coming you’ve heard that he’s coming, but I tell you many little anti-Christ have already come.” The spirit of anti-Christ is already at work in the world it’s that anti-God attitude, that anti-Christ attitude that motivates people to be the tool of Satan to do the work of Satan. Whether that is a false prophet who denies the teaching of the Bible, or whether that is somebody who hates the people of God like Hitler attempting to destroy the Jewish people, or whether it is some anti-Christian movement in society today that is trying to destroy the influence of Judeo-Christian morality in our society. Those attitudes are already at work because Satan is already at work. The timing has not yet come for him to move that individual into power who will then enact the program and the policies and the attitude of Satan worldwide, but the stage is certainly being set in that direction. Now when we take those Biblical descriptions and then we put them with that passage in Revelation 13 that the world worships the image of the beast. Now in the Greek New Testament it’s the word eikon, it could be a painting, or a statue or whatever but some kind of an image of the beast, but the false prophet gives life to the image of the beast. It can speak, it can talk, you can interact with it and it can even respond and hurt you and kill you if you do not worship the image of the beast. I began to see something more like a televised image, more like interactive TV that goes a step further in which you have a 3 dimensional hologramic image that could actually be projected into your living room. So that Tom Brokaw could appear to be in your living room and give you the evening news. In this case the ant-Christ, the world leader, could appear in your living room to speak to you about governmental policies or whatever.

Sid:  You know I’m reminded going back to Adolf Hitler it wasn’t natural the demonic supernatural power that he had to motivate people. They would go to these meetings where there would be torches at night and just the whole thing caught the people up into the same spirit that was on Adolf Hitler. You’re saying this could happen in everyone’s living room everywhere in the world because we were talking on our earlier broadcast the languages would be simultaneously translated into the language of the people from whatever country they are from.

Ed:  Yeah imagine if he could have communicated that message not just in German to the German people but he could have automatically communicated that message to every language group in the world.

Sid:  Hmm.

Ed:  The exponential development of his following would have been incredible. He would have had hundreds of millions potentially worldwide. There were even some Americans early on that thought “Well he sounds like a pretty good deal. He’s for work and hard work, and good ethics and morality. He wants everybody to behave and cooperate and he’s going to produce a more efficient, more effective economy in Germany. Maybe this would be a good thing.” They could not foresee the demonic devilish attitude that was being communicated. Now the Jewish community certainly picked up on it very quickly because they realized they were the target of a lot of that. Even then you had people as intelligent as Sigmund Freud who was Jewish who was living in Austria and saying “Ah it’s just talk they don’t really mean that. They’re really not going to do that.” Only at the last second before the onslaught was he finally persuaded to move to America. Otherwise…

Sid:  Listen even our Jewish rabbis, our traditional Jewish rabbis in Poland were saying “Don’t go to Israel” or in Germany “This is a great country,” even with the handwriting on the wall they chose not to believe it because it was so horrific.

Ed:  Yeah and I think there is a tendency in the same direction among American Christians today to say “Oh things aren’t that bad. We’re really not getting into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah it’s a little more than it ought to be but you know it’s recoverable.” Yet many are saying “We’ve already gone beyond the point of no return.” We have a society that is so obsessed with pleasure and self-gratification that law and decency and order, and commitment to God, and the word of God are things of the past. We’ve got a kind of feel good Christianity today that says to people “It don’t matter what you believe just kind of you know… let’s all just get together and sort of sing and dance.”

Sid:  It’s a self-gratification that’s slipped right from the world into the church.

Ed:  Exactly and it’s come really right from the heart of Satan himself. I have a friend who recently visited a Buddhist monastery and he was curious about it and there was a temple there and there was nobody in the temple but a monk. He went up to the monk and said “Help me to understand what you believe.” The monk said “What do you mean?”  And he said “Well your theology what’s your theology?” The monk thought for a minute and he said “Well we don’t have a theology.” “Then what’s your ideology? What are you trying to accomplish?” And he said “Well we don’t have an ideology.” So my friend said to him “What do you do?” The monk thought for a minute and he said “We dance.” All of a sudden he said “It hit me we’re moving in Judeo-Christian circles almost into that same kind of mindless attitude today.” We come to church to sing and dance but it really doesn’t matter what we believe. The danger is once Satan captures the hearts of people he’s got their emotions. He’ll control their mind and ultimately use their body to accomplish whatever purposes he wants to accomplish. All of a sudden we see this descendants of the human race away from family and value…

Sid:  It’s like the old story of the frog in the slow boiling water versus the hot.

Ed:  You throw him in a pot of hot, a pot of hot water he’ll jump right out, but you put him in a slow boil and he’ll swim around in there until it finally kills him.

Sid:  What you’re saying is that’s what is really going on. Let’s go back to the scenario for the future. What do you envision is the mark of the beast?

Ed:  I think the mark of the beast is going to be some kind of an external thing that can be seen. The Biblical term in the book of Revelation kragma abrand, a tattoo, it’s not just necessarily something slipped under the skin. It’s something people can immediately identify, these are people that are marked these are the people that are not.

Sid:  Sort of like the Jews in Germany who had to wear a Star of David.

Ed:  Star of David so they could easily be seen and identified. Had he had the ability to do it today they would have just tattooed that right on everybody. Then you couldn’t pull the star off of your pin and try to hide your identity in some way. I think however if we look at…

Sid:  But if it’s on the forehead then everyone will be able to see it.

Ed:  See it, yeah. Also then somehow with this thing implant some kind of device in people that can identify their location, can in some ways control their behavior and their physical responses you could end up with a society that is totally, completely, chemically, and computerized controlled.

Sid:  This is way beyond Oral Welles’ 1984, way beyond it!

Ed:  Way beyond it. Then to satisfy them you dispense physical pleasure to them. You create even if you have to do it artificially the sense of sexual gratification, or physical gratification. You convince them through computerized technology that they’ve just eaten a gigantic chocolate bar and they’re happy. Then they’ll do anything you want them to do. So that’s the scary part of the technology.

Sid:  Now what is that famous quote from communism? “Give me a child before a certain age and I’ll make them anything I want.” Isn’t that what this technology will be used with say the next generation of children? Have them totally controlled.

Ed:  Yeah you’ve got people right now saying “We should put an identification chip in every kid because then your child can’t be kidnapped, he can’t get lost you lose your kid at the mall you immediately find where he’s at.” Now it’s not as far-fetched as people think so I wouldn’t do that. There are lots of people right now who already have an implanted chip they don’t realize it it’s in their car it’s called OnStar. You get lost you push a button all of a sudden the person comes on and talks to you says “Hey where are you? You’re lost you’re in Philadelphia you’re trying to get to New York you’re on the wrong street you need to go here, go there straighten yourself out etcetera.” We say “Oh that’s terrific!” The chip knows where my car is. Well you put the chip in your dog you know where your dog is. You put it in your child you know where your child is.  You put it in you they know where you are.

Sid:  As you said earlier this week technology is such that you’ll be able to swallow this chip like a pill.

Ed:  Yep so it won’t all that difficult. It won’t even take surgery to implant the thing in you it will implant itself inside you.

Sid:  What type of feedback are you getting on your new book “Future Wave?”

Ed:  Well people are… everything. Some are thrilled and excited about the potential of using the technology to communicate the gospel. Other people are scared to death saying “Oh my goodness I see us moving into a world of mind control, body control and everything else. I want to know how it will affect my children. How’s it going to affect our kids in our educational system and the next generation?” There’s so much information available on the internet right now….

Sid: I have on the telephone Shirley Smith and I’m speaking to her at her home at North Little Rock, Arkansas.  In June of 1995 she got a death sentence from the doctor she was diagnosed with 3^rd stage ovarian cancer, 6 months to live. Nothing medical science could do.  She began the battle for her life God told her she had to do 3 things, she had to not be in unbelief, she had to stand in faith for her healing. The second thing was she had to rebuild her body and her immune system with proper nutrition. The third she had to reconcile with her son-in-law if she wanted to live. And then she received a mandate to daily come before the Lord and participate in communion the Lord’s Supper. And you began to do this and God showed you Shirley that there were areas in your life you had not released to God. You had not allowed Him to even come in and heal you it was kind of like a spiritual pride and when He began to point these things out to you He directed you towards communion and you found a new power in communion that you’d never seen before tell me about it.

Shirley: Yes okay.  Well one day while the Lord was speaking to me about things in those rooms and I explained about yesterday and I’d never allowed Him to go into. He began to tell me about some people in my life and mainly it was a mother-in-law and I had explained rejection there from my in-laws and I said “Lord I’ve already forgiven many of these things you’re telling me I’ve already forgiven her I’ve already talked to her. I’ve already told her that I was sorry for this and for my wrong response. And the Lord replied to me and said “Yes you have forgiven these but you have never released them.” And then I’m thinking about what He said “Release them.” And the Lord spoke again He said “Do you still feel pain when you think of this situation of this person of the comment that was made to you?” And I said “Yes I do.” He said “Then you have not released it.”  And I said “Lord I don’t know how to release it if I knew how I would how can I do that how can I release them?” And the Lord and at this moment I’m getting frustrated because I wasn’t get a quick answer and I said “How can I, how can I get a quick release how can I do that?” And I had the communion cup kind of up in the air when I was asking this question and the Lord just profoundly and simply said to me You can release them through the power of the communion cup in your hand.  I suddenly had a revelation of a power of the blood of Jesus and the communion.  I was so thrilled I quickly said “Wonderful God that will be so easy to do I want to do this.” Okay listen with the revelation of what you just said to me that through the power of the communion cup I can release everything to You. I release everything through the faith in your blood represented in this communion cup.”  And I was shocked because the Lord said to me “No, you have to tell me exactly and specifically what you released and explain it to Me.” And you know I was back at square 1 and so through that point on I experience very deep dealings again and painful memories and I just began to just sob out those things but I released and as these hurts would come up and painful memories would come up I would just take the communion cup and I’d say “Father through the power of Your shed blood” and you know the thorns that was put into His head that was the healings of our memories and I said “Lord the chastisement of my peace my peace of mind was upon you and through the power of this cup I release every hurt, every pain” and I began to name the person, I would name what they said to me the rejecting words they said to me.” And when I did that chains of the past began to break off of me.

Sid: You’d think that after all of these years after recognizing and understanding the word to forgive what you did that you wouldn’t be dealing with all of these roots but you’re telling me they really were there.

Shirley: The roots were there and many people and things like to mention people in ministry too because they just forgive and they go on with their hurts because they don’t know what else to do or because they were like me too much pride to even admit they even have a problem.

Sid: Tell me about one of the things God said you had to do and that has to do with forgiving your son-in-law. He said if you wanted to live you had to do this.

Shirley: Right that’s what I did I just began to name the things he had said the things that he had done the last 20 years the ongoing thing with the whole family and as I named those released those those chains broke.  And you know finally at the end of the 5 months it was 5 months total I was at sister Gwen’s I had come to my metamorphosis and my rooms were cleaned the chains were broken and I was released to return back to my home. And when I came back to my home the first thing that I did I came back to my doctor for my blood test and my doctor was in shock and he went “What happened to you?” And I said “You wouldn’t believe it if I told you.” And this is my gynecologist not my surgeon not the oncologist I’ve not seen him since.  But he said “Well tell me!” and I said “Okay I’ll tell you so I told him everything I just told you and he was so overwhelmed he went “I believe Shirley I believe and I have heard of this but I never knew anybody that it had ever happened to and you are my first miracle patient.”

Sid: Let me read to you Mishpochah because I have in my hand and I might add this is in her booklet that has her entire testimony of how she was healed. A letter from her Gynecologist Dr. Dale Fuller it’s dated June 15, 2000 and this is what he said this is on his stationary:

Shirley is a gynecologic patient of mine and has been for some time and she first presented to my office as a new patient in 1991.  In June of ’95 Shirley developed ovarian cancer of which surgery was performed. Stage 3 cancer was found as well as cancer that had spread to the large and small intestines as well as other structures. Shirley declined to receive chemotherapy following the surgery as I advised her. Shirley decided to rely on her faith for healing of this cancer. As Shirley’s OBGYN I have kept a close watch over her by ordering regular annual blood tests and physical examinations. Each test has proven the miraculous healing that has existed in her for the past 5 years.  There is no medical doubt that she should have died years ago with the spread of cells and conditions left in her body. In June 2000 she underwent a series of blood work and tests including an MRI to rule out any evidence of reoccurrence of cancer. All tests were negative revealing Shirley to be clean and clear of any evidence of cancer in her body. To this day I am grateful to still call her my miracle lady.

I mean talk about documentation Shirley.

Shirley: Yes.

Sid: But let me ask you this question, when God took you through these hurts were they very painful?

Shirley: Extremely, extremely the roots.

Sid: And as you prayed over communion and released each one specifically did you feel them leave?

Shirley: Yes I did, yes I did it was like a chain breaking. You know I didn’t even know I head the chain there. I mean I knew I had bondages yes I never dreamed I had that much bondage and that much you know it was really taking out of the peace of mind. We’re not looking at oppressed things and suppressed things and we can bring…and I learned this in psychiatric nursing but it’s easier to analyze somebody else than to analyze your own self we can push them into our subconscious mind and that’s what I had done to deal with that.

Sid: But let me ask you just a bit about your son-in-law there was a point where you actually wrote out a blessing for him explain that.

Shirley: Yes I did well let me just say first that we have made peace with each other we now have expressed our love, our respect and our acceptance for one another. And later after this reconciliation the Lord instructed me to speak a blessing over their marriage. Well I had never done anything like this before and I had really felt at loss of how to do it and I said “Lord well I’ve blessed them for years.” He said “Yes but they have never heard you do it they have never heard you say those words.” And so I said “Okay.” I began to try to write up you know a blessing and it didn’t sound like anything. I read scriptures I read books on blessing, nothing fit the situation so I was frustrated and so I said “Lord now listen I want to be obedient and I want to do what You told me to do but if You don’t help me I can’t do it I don’t know how to do this so please help me.” And this is another… I mean God orchestrated it was a supernatural thing again my whole story is supernatural this is one of the best parts. Suddenly when I told the Lord I can’t do it You’re going to have to do it for me or help me my anointing or an unction fell on me that just grab a piece of paper and pencil and I began to write.” This did not come from my mind, I repeat this did not come from my mind this came out of my spirit. And I was shocked at what I was writing and this is what happened. My pen just flew across the paper and I was invoking many beautiful blessings and I was amazed while I watched this and I began to recognize so much of so much of what I was writing there was scripture.  And I thought “Oh what an awesome blessing because this clearly expresses my heart. So when I finished this beautiful thing I shared it with my husband. The Lord said to me “I want you to present that to them.” Well when I got ready to present this to my daughter and son-in-law the Lord orchestrated this so beautifully I didn’t know how He’d worked with him. And so when I was telling him how it happened he said to me now what exactly, when exactly did you receive this? And I told him and when I told him this it was at 6:00 Sunday afternoon my son-in-laws face lite up and he said “Oh I can’t believe this” because at that same hour the pastor had said “If there’s anyone here who needs to release themselves from someone they tried to forgive but they just can’t get free I want you to come to the front and let me pray for you.” He said “At 6:00 you’re getting this blessing over us he said I went to the front and for the first time I got a complete freedom.”

Sid: I have on the telephone Shirley Smith I’m speaking to her at her home in North Little Rock, Arkansas. We found out on the last few days that she was diagnosed with third stage ovarian cancer. Her abdomen was filled with malignant tumors 6 months to live nothing medical science could do and God spoke to her and said “Shirley if you’ll do these  things I’ll heal you.

1. You must stand in faith for your healing.
2. You must rebuild your body and your immune system with proper nutrition
3. You must reconcile with your son-in-law if you want to live.

And then she was given a mandate to daily participate in communion. And Shirley you went to your friend’s house who was saturating you in prayer and when you got there she told you something not knowing what God had told you the day before. What did she say?

Shirley:  Well when I arrived at Sister Gwen’s house the first thing she did was offer me the holy communion and she had never done that before and I’d been in her home many times and she’d been in mine and we just never thought to take communion but she did.  She said “Shirley I want to serve you communion.” And I thought that oh this looks like a confirmation coming here and so she did.  And then she took the table and she set it beside the bedroom door and she said “Now honey I’m going to put this here and you can take communion daily if you want to.”  That confirmed my instruction from the Lord.

Sid: You told me that you actually… that the Lord allowed you to look into the invisible world and see exactly what you were dealing with that was manifesting itself as cancer tell me what you saw.

Shirley: Right in yesterday’s testimony I was talking about the 3 things that God said. And when He told me that I would settle my fate you know for this healing. Well I’m thinking “Gosh you know” I said “Lord let’s reason this out because You know my faith level I know how to fight but my faith level Lord I don’t think it’s high enough to fight in that realm of cancer.” And the Lord said to me I …this is so beautiful it was music to my ears “I will accept your faith level where it is if you will just use it and I said “Okay I can do that.” And then I further apologized I said “I’m just so sorry that I don’t have big faith for cancer.” And you know we think that cancer is a fatal thing and the Lord responded to me and His voice came like thunder in my ear and He said to me “Cancer is not big I am big!” And I went “Uh.” Just the reality hit me that no cancer is not big God is bigger” and when I saw in a vision or when I saw in the realm of the spirit I saw this monstrous thing in front of me just like over me and it hit when the Lord said that it hit the floor. And when it did I put my foot on it and I said “You are under my feet and I trample and I tread on you in the name of the Lord and you stay under my feet.” And that was a spirit of fear that had told me in my mind so many hours and days here. And that’s what I saw in the realm of the spirit. So when I was at Sister Gwen she confirmed that I was going to daily communion.  You know when I was upset again there was areas in my life that God had not deeply dealt with yet so I was fearful of communion.  But I loved the Lord with all of my heart and it’s always my desire to please Him so I just said “Lord I’m just going to step over my struggle with fear here to obey you” and so I did. And I met, and oh it was so beautiful just a few weeks later the miracle began to unfold. And the Holy Spirit and truth He is the Spirit of truth. Truth met me daily at the communion table and once again the Lord and I began to come into an intimate relationship on daily basis. And I was brought face to face with my healer and my revealer. And one day the Lord asked me a question and He said “Are you ready to allow me to go into the rooms of your heart where I’ve never been, the rooms that you have never given me entrance to. And a different truth at that point had begun to dawn on me. And I began to realize that He wanted to heal me emotionally as well as physically so I just quickly whispered “Yes Lord let’s go in.” I embraced it and you know I know the potter’s wheel I’ve been on the potter’s wheel many times through the years and I’ve learned to trust His hand. Brother Sid I know that God is always on my side and whatever He works in my heart and in my life is always for good and my flesh will scream many times in the shaping and breaking and the remolding but my spirit is always edified my soul is always released. And so I knew I was on the Potter’s wheel so you know I just embraced that and I said “Lord do Your work in me.” And the Lord began to speak to me and you have legal doors in your life and I’ve covered you with grace and mercy many times but now Satan has come to take your life and His hands have been tied now because of my open doors in my life. Because when we refuse to forgive it ties the hands of God Matthew 18:37 declares this. And so I knew that I really had to yield completely everything to the Lord. And then while He was talking to me He brought back to me about the rooms of my heart that He had not had entrance into and I knew what He was talking about. And I want to share a vision here about the rooms of my heart. I sat daily for 3 months going through actually 5 total but 3 really intense going through this daily communion. And confession and repentance and healing but He said to me “I want to go into those rooms.” And so here was the vision “About 4 years before this attack of cancer hit me I was in intercession and prayer and I went into a vision and in the vision Holy Spirit said to me “I’m going to take you on a tour through your spiritual house.” And I said “Well okay.” And in the vision we began to walk through the house and He took me in rooms that had this exquisitely ornate furniture it was just carved so beautiful of finest of woods like mahogany and pecan and you know oak and ebony and I was just very impressed with all that I saw and I said “Oh Lord that is just so beautiful.” And so we went through many rooms like this and then He took me into a room and there was a chair that had been partially carved and the back was carved and the arm was carved along the side was carved and the chisel and the hammer lay on the seat and I looked at the seat and I looked at that and I went well you know Lord you didn’t finish it what happened You didn’t finish carving this? And the Lord just responded to me and said “You never allowed me to finish that you drew back from Me.” And I went “I don’t understand.” And the Lord said “These carvings that you see on this wood you know we’re broken vessels this carving you see on this furniture here is My deep dealings in your life. My dealings meaning My corrections, My instructions My breaking, My molding you by changing your life changing your heart, changing your motives, changing your ministry these are deep deep dealings where I work deeply in your heart to put My nature in you.” Now I went “Okay wonderful.” So we went down the hallway and we went past some of these doors in these rooms and I said I’m waiting for Him to go in and He said “No.” And I said “What’s in that room?” And the Lord said “I’ve never been in there you haven’t allowed Me to go in there.” And I said “Okay and we walked down the hallway and there was another door and I’m waiting for Him to go in and He didn’t go in and I said “Well what’s in this room?” And He said “I’ve never been in there I haven’t been in this one either you have never allowed Me to go in this room.” And I said “Okay and so we walked on down the hallway and we came to this huge room an awesome room like a big ballroom with like marble or onyx floor. And in this room if I can describe this where you can comprehend this is maybe you’ve had an experience like this I don’t know but I saw the shekinah glory of God and I’ve seen this many times but and it’s always like a white iridescent mist and it had a beams of light gold and silver flashing through it. And I could see the forms of people in this glory cloud or this shekinah glory or in this mist. I couldn’t tell you know I couldn’t recognize anybody by the face but I could see that there were many in this and I said “Now Lord what’s going on here and what is this?” And the Lord said “This is my Glory and I’m going to bring you into that.” And that was the end of the vision. So I realized and God began to say to my “You know I’m going to change you.” And He said to me “When I’m finished with you I’m going to bring you into this glory.”  And that’s what the Lord did and so it was so wonderful I said “Okay Lord let’s go into those rooms because I desired to walk into the glory.”  And so the Lord began to open the doors of these rooms and I knew that behind those doors lay a lot of pain and a lot of hurt.

Sid: You had told me that you were raised in a house that had a lot of abuse.

Shirley: Right, right and so I knew I mean I had dealt with a lot of that I really had through the years but there were roots this is important this is a key.  We can deal with a tree we can cut the limbs off we can even cut the trunk off but if you don’t get the roots out it will grow back.  And actually that’s what had happened to me I had cut down many things I had taken many things out of my life but I never got to the roots and the root of these was abuse and rejection and hurts that had been very deep in my heart. And behind these doors the image roots were many people that included family, it includes friends other Christians brothers and sisters. And even some ministers and pastors where I had been wounded deeply. And so many things had really been collected over the years and they had just stayed buried you know deep in my heart. And I have to make a confession here and I think it’s important for your listeners and for others that often maybe listening as in ministry, listen to my testimony I want to say I know that I’m not the only one guilty of this but I had a high profile in ministry most of my life. I came in there early in my early 20’s and God’s used me in many many I wore many hats.  He’s used me in many different types of ministry and I’ve always had a high profile with TV and radio and etcetera and because of this I just refused to let anybody know that I had these problems you know deep in my heart and in my life. And actually I had a religious pride that held me…

Sid: Hold that thought Mishpochah we’re out of time…

Sid: I have on the telephone I’m speaking to her at her home in North Little Rock, Arkansas Shirley Smith. Shirley and her husband were missionaries they came back in June of 1995 from the jungles of South America. And she had her annual checkup and the surgeon found that she had 3^rd stage ovarian cancer. Her abdomen was filled with malignant tumors and there was nothing medical science could do. She had 6 months to live, 17 people in her family had died from cancer already. What about fear Shirley?

Shirley: Okay that’s a good question and I sure would love to give an answer because I like people to take courage of this. Number 1 let me just say this, 2^nd Timothy 1:7 says For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but power love and a sound mind.” In that verse he calls fear a spirit because he says “spirit of fear.” We know that we have authority in the name and dominion over spirits. We know that He has given us this power to tread on scorpions, adders, serpents, and that nothing of the enemy shall harm us. So it’s a spirit…

Sid: But Shirley it’s one thing to know that, it’s also one thing to proclaim that or preach it, but it’s another thing when it’s happening to you.

Shirley: Right it was happening to me I knew the scripture, I’ve acted on the scripture in the past many times in other situations I knew it worked so it was a weapon that I had. So… but I was in a weakened condition because of the devastation of my body and my mind this is why I was having to exert so much effort even to fight that very spirit. So this is how I fought it, the Holy Spirit at this time began to really speak to my heart and He said to me “You are going through the valley of the shadow of death.” He cautioned me in Proverbs 13:3 He gave me this scripture and said “Watch the words of your mouth.” “For he that keepeth the words of his mouth keepeth his life, but he that opens wide his lips shall have destruction.” And I knew that was a serious scripture He had given me and fully began to realize then what I had really is very serious and I had to be very careful about my words. Then He gave me Psalms 118 verse 17 and 18 to fight with which says: “I shall live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. He has chastened me sore but he has not given me over to death.” So I would fight with… was battling in the arena of my mind now not in my spirit it was in my mind. I knew that Satan was coming for my words because God had given me this scripture to watch the words of my mouth so I knew he was coming for my words just like an angel came to Daniel, over in the book of Daniel. He said “The first day that you made supplication we heard you and now I have come for your words the Prince of Persia withstood me.” So I knew God was hearing me and I knew that I had to call upon the power of the angels to help put this thing through, my prayers through. So I’ve had many angel experiences also in the past and I’ve seen them work for me, I’ve seen them protect me, and I just know it works. So I begin to declare Isaiah 54:17 “That no weapon formed against me shall prosper,” none! “That this is the inheritance of the saints and my righteousness is of Him.” So I said “Lord I need you to help me now to put a guard over our gate, over my mouth.” When my body would jerk and convulse at the pain of my bed, my emotions of course would weaken and waiver but my faith never did. I still stood strong and I watched the word, it would be on the tip of my tongue the wrong thing I went “eh eh.!” I won’t say it, I won’t say it.

Sid: And about that time you received an invitation from a woman by the name of Gwen Shaw who is the founder of the End Time Handmaidens a women’s organization. She thought that if you went to her house she could really saturate you with prayer which was a wonderful thing and just before you got to here house God told you do 3 things.

Shirley: Hmm hm. Okay there was a lot that took place before I got to her house because I had a very powerful encounter with my oncologist. They called me back from the doctor’s office and they said “We want you to come in for your second treatment of chemo.” I said to her “I am not coming in for a second treatment, the first one almost killed me. I’ve already called the hospital and cancelled , I’ve called… cancelled my bed, cancelled the other doctor that’s going to administrate that” and she was very upset with me. She said “Well you’ll have to come in and speak with the oncologist about this.” I said “Wonderful give me an appointment with him.” So I went in and I began to speak with this doctor and the first thing… I knew this man was a very aggressive man and that he could manipulate me, try to manipulate me with fear and I hate that spirit. I was already warned with that thing so my daughter went with me. We prayed in his office before he ever came in while we were waiting against this type of thing. So the first thing he said when he came in he was very warm and very friendly and he said “Well how have you been? I want to tell you I just came from Mayo Clinic and we have discussed ovarian cancer there and the heads, the big heads Shirley, the big heads have said that the treatment, the best treatment for ovarian cancer is exactly what I gave you. Now listen Shirley the big heads said this.” Now what I’m proceeding this thing is the medical gods. He says “The big heads say that I have given you the best treatment” and I said “Yes perhaps you did and it almost killed me. I laid at deaths door for 9 days while you were gone to your meeting and your associate put me back in the hospital.” He went “Oh, oh, oh” when I listened “Shirley that’s just part of it, that’s just part of the treatment.” Then he said “You’re going to have to take this second treatment” he said “I’m going to give you a lighter dose and I’m going to give you a second treatment” and I said “No you’re not. I’m not taking another treatment.” He became very angry with me and he put his hand on his hip and he raised his voice and he pointed his finger at me and he said “Listen to me. Listen to me Shirley! If you don’t take this chemo you’re going to die!” Well you know maybe my flesh rose up these were fighting words to me. I said “Wait, wait, wait! Let me explain to you, you cannot scare me with death and let me explain to you why, but I want to ask you one question first. Did you believe that the Bible is the word of God and it is true? First do you believe that?” He thought a minute and he hesitated and he went “Yes, yes I do.” I said “Okay I just want to establish you if we are getting here” and I said I want to ask you a question now I said “I really want to tell you something.” I said “Let me give you a scripture of where my stand is on death.” I said “The Bible says ‘That precious in the eyes of the Lord is the death of His saints.’ And the Bible says ‘That absence from the body is present with the Lord.’ That means I step out of this body into my glorified body.” He went “Wait a minute” I said “No you wait I’m not finished.  The Bible says that ‘It is appointed unto man once to die then after that the judgment.’ Now listen only God knows the appointed time because it’s appointed unto man once to die, it is an appointed time and you are not God and you cannot tell me I have 6 months because you don’t know that. Only God knows my appointed time.” He started to speak and I went “Wait I’m not finished I’m going to give you another scripture. The Bible says ‘That I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. He has chastened me sore but He has not given me over unto death.’”

Sid: Shirley you are the devil’s worst nightmare he’s getting nowhere with you.

Shirley: Absolutely. Oh the Spirit of the Lord took over in me at that moment. Those words…and scripture just flowed out of me. He was speechless and I said “Wait I want to tell you, listen to me. Listen to me! Bottom line I don’t know what you’re doing but I know what I’m doing. ‘I am going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord,’ and let me add my part to this doctor I’m going to return to the nations where God has called me to teach His word. Listen to me don’t you ever ever let those words of death come out of your mouth again! Don’t you ever speak death over me again! You speak life to me!” I left his office and I’ve not seen him since.”

Sid: (Chuckling) Okay the Lord instructed you 3 things that you had to do.

Shirley: Right, okay Sister Gwen calls and now my confrontation with the doctor is over and I’ve gone to Sister Gwen’s house. Sister Gwen she’s my spiritual missionary mom for many years and God has called me to her many times and she’s always impacted my life and I’m thinking this is one more time that God is giving me another divine appointment and God’s going to change some things in my life. So when I got there she knew nothing about my mandates and my commandments. Before I went, the night before I went I was in prayer and I began to pray and I said “Lord you know I just want to please You. I know that my life is Your’s and I just want to please You and so You tell me what to do.” So this is what I heard Him say, audibly God spoke this to me, there’s been a few time in my life that God has spoken audibly and this is one of those times. This is during night time battle and I heard the voice of the Lord in an audible form and He said “If you want to leave you have to reconcile with your son-in-law.” I thought about that and He said I’m going to give you 3 commandments:

1. You have to reconcile with your son-in-law
2. You have to change your diet and rebuild your body with nutrition
3. You have to stand on your faith
4. I’m giving you a mandate to come to the communion table

So to go back and explain about each one of those things was God said to me “You have to reconcile your son-in-law” I thought “Oh Lord I have tried that many times and it has never worked, I never got any response from him.” I felt like “Lord that’s like a death sentence itself because he has refused to reconcile. The Lord said to me “IF YOU WANT TO LIVE YOU RECONCILE!” I said “Okay Lord I have to believe that You’re going to work in his heart…

Sid: We’re out of time. Hold that thought

Shirley: Okay.

Sid: But I’ve got to repeat that sentence again. God said to Shirley “If you want to live you must reconcile.” Powerful words

SID: Hello Sid Roth here with Pastor Kynan Bridges. And in the last segment we were talking about the Passover. And Yeshua, Jesus is the Passover lamb. But the power of the lamb in Passover was so powerful that a slave nation went into the wilderness for 40 years. They should have been sick, they should have been dying, they should have had every disease known to man. Over a million people, children, elderly people, not one feeble among them. And that was just the Passover lamb was a shadow of the Passover lamb, Yeshua, Jesus the Messiah. Tell me about the substance. I love the shadow, but we have a better covenant with substance. Tell me about that.

KYNAN: Amen. Actually Hebrews talks about the fact that we have a better covenant built upon better promises. And in First Corinthians, Chapter 11, Paul the Apostle highlights the communion, and he talks about how Jesus, right before his crucifixion, he says, “This is my body which is broken for you. This do in remembrance of me. This is the new covenant shed in my blood. This do as often and drink it in remembrance of me.” So what we begin to see, Sid, is that Jesus in fact is our Passover lamb. He has become the send-off frame for all of God’s people. And what happens is when we begin to understand this, we understand that God entered into a blood covenant with us with the shed blood of Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, you’ll see, the Bible says in Isaiah 53, and also highlights in First Peter 2:24, that he bore our sins and carried our diseases. So in fact, the sin and the disease that were curses from Adam were placed on Jesus, and they were abolished, which means that when Jesus was on the cross six and a half hours that was being done for us. So now you and I, Sid, have a legal right to walk in Divine health. We have a legal right to speak to the mountain of cancer. We have a legal right to speak to the mountain of disease and infirmity and it must obey our voice because of Jesus, Lamb of God.

SID: Alright. Give me an example, MS, the symptoms started coming on you. How did you even know they were symptoms of MS?

KYNAN: I knew they were symptoms because I have family members with multiple sclerosis. And actually, a family member contacted me and they began to tell me that they were diagnosed with MS. Immediately after their diagnosis, Sid, I began to experience symptoms in myself. I would lose feeling in my legs for several weeks. I would lose balance. I would have what would be considered MS attacks. And this went on for several weeks. And I began to pray. And as I was praying, Sid, the Holy Spirit spoke to me one day and reminded me of Second Corinthians 5:21. It said that, “He was made to be sin for us who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” And the Holy Spirit said, “I want you to stop asking me to heal you because I’ve already done that. What I want you to do, I want you to thank me for perfect health.” So what I began to do, I began to thank God. I would take the Word like medicine, like people take pain pills. I would actually ingest the Word like medicine. Because the Bible says in Psalms, “He sent His Word and healed them of all their destruction.” So we can actually eat the Word of God, as Jesus talked about Luke 4, that “Man should not live by bread alone, but by every Word of God.” So when we meditate upon the Word, Sid, we’re actually feeding our spirit man and the life of God is being manifested. And I did just that, Sid. And as I began to do that the symptoms disappeared and they never came back again.

SID: So they were lies. They were literally illegal.

KYNAN: They were illegal. They did not have a legal right to be in my body. As a matter of fact, when we talk about Passover or communion, my wife was diagnosed with diabetes, and this was very frustrating for her. And I began to pray with her and everything. And we took the communion. And as we took communion, within a few, maybe days or maybe a week or so, we went back to the doctor and the doctor told her that you do not have diabetes. That’s the power.

SID: Okay. Someone knows what you just said, prayed and nothing happens. What would you tell them?

KYNAN: Well you know, it’s very interesting because I have seen this experience even in my own life, Sid. Remember, I talked about that door of revelation, and Jesus said in Revelation 3:8, that “You have kept my word.” Kept my word. As a matter of fact, when the Bible talks about, in Mark 11:23, and says, “You shall not doubt in your heart,” well really, doubt is a belief system. It’s more than just an emotion. It’s a way of thinking that contradicts the Word of God. And so what happens is you and I have to train our spirit man to where there are no other alternatives to the Word of God. And that happens when we internalize the Word, and the Word is more than just a principle or something that we mentally ascend to.

SID: You talk about, you hear it inside of you, not what you feel, sense, smell or taste.

KYNAN: Absolutely.

SID: Explain that.

KYNAN: Well the church has come to a place where the Word of God actually has to become our reality. It has to become what’s real to us. When sickness comes to me I already know because I trained my spirit that sickness does not belong.

SID: I’ll tell you what. Right now there are people that are fighting sickness. I want you to pray for them at this moment.

KYNAN: Father, in Jesus’ name, Lord, I thank you for your children. Lord, I thank you that right now in the name of Jesus that you are quickening someone right now. You are quickening your children and you are giving them the gift of faith. Your Word declares that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word. God, I release faith to your children now and I speak life to them now. I command cancer to die in Jesus’ name. I command autoimmune disorders to cease. That someone even with a retina detachment, it’s being reattached right now by the power of the Holy Spirit. I declare this Jesus’ name based on the shed blood of Yeshua, right now.

SID: You know, there is a scripture that is coming to me that actually you taught on: “And you shall know the truth.” And the truth is an idiom for intimacy with God. Know, the word “know”, Adam knew Eve. Adam had intimacy with Eve. You shall know the truth. You shall have intimacy with the truth. What is truth? God says, “My Word is truth.” You shall have intimacy with the truth. The Word of God, and the Word of God will make you free. I want to be free in spirit, soul and body. Start by making the Word of God, Jesus, your Lord. Repent of your sins and ask him to live inside of you and begin to heed the Word and have such intimacy that just like Kynan you’ll hear the Word inside of you, not the things that are external, that are tempering. You’ll have the eternal inside of you. That’s what you need.

SID: Now Rich Vera had six hours in Heaven. But he says, although it was six hours, there’s no time in Heaven. And so it was unlimited teaching was downloaded into his spirit. Tell me about what happened when you went to Heaven.

RICH: You know, I was grilling fish in Hawaii with friends and I passed out. And so instantly when I fell to the ground I was taken out of my body and it was right in the presence of the Lord. Now I always have the idea when I see Jesus and when I jump on him, kiss and love him. But because I wasn’t living up to his expectations to what I knew was best, there was a sense of failure on the inside. There was a sense of so much to do for God. I’m calling God. I’m here. I’m wasting my time being selfish allowing bitterness and what people did to me, keep me away from the living God. I spent what it seemed to me 45 minutes or more begging the Lord for his mercy. I felt that at any time something could open and I would go right to Hell. And I begged the Lord from my whole being asking, “Lord have mercy. Please send me back. And if you send me back I’ll do anything you want me to do. I’ll preach for you. I’ll live my life for you.” Was about a time when begging with such a force that I heard at a distance, way at a distance that the sound of the ambulance pulling over to the house. And I began to see way down there, opening the door, coming out, coming down the driveway. And when I saw them I opened my eyes back on the backyard. And I told my friends, “This is not a sickness.” I said, “I’m not dying.” I said, “This is a visitation from God.” They had no idea what I was talking about. They told the paramedics that I was okay, that it was a visitation from God. I don’t know how they took it. So when they were gone, I told them, “Pull me in the house,” because I was in the backyard. Neighbors heard me screaming. They were coming out the windows. They dragged me in the house, threw me on the couch. The moment I hit the couch I was taken up my body again, and this time I was in the presence of the Lord. But I wasn’t begging for mercy. Now I knew that the Lord gave me a chance. I knew that the Lord allowed me to return, and that I wasn’t going to die and go to Hell. Now walking with the Lord, the funny thing is my mind that I have down here, it works perfectly up there. So I remember everything down here and I always say if I see Jesus, I’m going to ask him every question I can ask. I’m going throw a thousand questions.

SID: How would you like to ask Jesus some questions? I have an idea you would. I have an idea you would, too.

RICH: And I began to ask him questions. I said, “God, tell me about the healing ministry and the prophetic ministry, and the working of miracles.” Because these are the gifts that God has given me as a minister. And the Lord answer my questions. And I go, “Lord, am I going to raise the dead? What’s going to be this? Am I going to preach? How big is going to be my audience?” And the Lord was not paying attention. So I got frustrated and I said, “Fine.” And I thought to myself, somehow, I’m going to get the answer from you. And the Lord says, “I want you to see something and meet some people.” And He’s walking me down, and suddenly the Lord, before He walks me down, He looks at me and says, “Why did you allow what people said about you and things that happened, and the accusations, how mean people, why did you let this turn you away from me? Don’t you know that I’m the one.” And he took me back since I was little boy, incidents that in my life that He was with me and I had no idea. Now when the Lord is telling me this, I’m listening to his voice, but I’m having a visual like a TV screen of the events. And as the Lord is talking to me, up to the say I was 18 years old when I got born again, and the Lord says, “I was with you this event and I’m the one that visited you and saved you.” When He’s talking to me His voice and His words are coming to me with such a force that they started cleansing me from all the bitterness and all the anger. And instantly, by Him talking to me, I was filled with His love and I was delivered from the hatred, the bitterness and all my rescindments. And I was filled with the love of God to the point that I wanted to go to every person that did me wrong and hug them and kiss them. It was a love that it was beyond my way of expressing love. And I learned one thing. The voice of the Lord carries power to deliver us, to change us, to heal us, just His voice.

SID: You know, here in America, we have, what, maybe eight Bibles per Christian. We’re fat with Bibles. And we’ve heard the stories since we were in Sunday school, little kids. And we kind of take it for granted. We forget how powerful every word of the Word of God is.

RICH: Well Jesus said, “The words that I speak, they’re spirit and they carry life.” So words are not just noise, you know, like you hear a voice and go, you’re just making noise. But when Jesus talks, there’s two elements to his voice. His voice is an audio and his voice is visual. And my experience is because everything He will talk to me, I will see it. That’s why you hear prophetic people say, I see this and I see that. You’re hearing something from the Lord. So when God talks to us, and actually words that are spirit born, spirit led, are words that will carry vision and will carry audio. And this is the power of God. Because the Bible says, without vision that people perish. But the Word of God brings vision to us. There’s a need for us to hear the voice of God, not just through a prophet. One word of the Lord can carry you for a whole life, one single word.

SID: Now God told you, when you came back and He taught you about the gift of prophecy, but what did he tell you, you would be able to see?

RICH: You know, He showed me some people. And He says, “Look up.” And He told me, “What do you see?” And I see, “Well I see,” and I described people. He says, “Look again. Tell me what you see.” And I see, “Well I see,” and I described different bodies. He says, “Look again.” So I began to describe blue tie, red this. And then suddenly an angel turned the group of people around, and an angel came and peeled in from the back like if it wore a banana. So when he peeled them instead of seeing their brain or their body organs, I could see them what happened to them when they were children, things in their lives, what they were thinking, incidents in their lives. And the Lord says, “Look now.” And when I saw it, something right away was downloading in my spirit. And the Lord says, “From this time on when you see people, you will know. And as you speak by my spirit I will heal them, I will deliver them, not only physical, but from things that are happening in their lives.” So that’s really what released me to another level of the prophetic in my life.

SID: Let me tell you something, I was with him and I just talked a bit about backsliding, and I don’t understand someone backsliding, I said, because I had such an experience, I could never even fathom that. And he began to tell me the experience that I had. He said, “I see it.” And he began to say the words, but he had no knowledge of this before the fact. So I’ve already tested this gift. But what excites me even more than that gift, I have to tell you, is the revelation you got from Isaiah, from Peter, from Elijah, from Moses. Oy vey. I wish I had those revelations. I want to hear it in the next segment. Be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Dr. Gary Whetstone. And we found out that he had an amazing journey to know the Messiah. So he gets married and everything is fine. But you see, he had an encounter. He knew that God was real, but he was not discipled. And at a party one day, he takes one joint and all that craziness comes back to him.

GARY: That’s right.

SID: And your wife couldn’t handle it. And so she’s going to divorce him. And at the day of the divorce, what did you say to the judge?

GARY: I’m standing before the judge and he says, “Do you have anything to say about your divorce?” I said, “Yes.” He says, “Raise your right hand and put your hand on the Bible.” I said, “No, I want to read it.” He said, “We don’t do that in this courtroom.” I said, “No, I’m going to read it.” Because the Bible says in First Corinthians, Chapter 7, “If she departs let her remained unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.” And I said, “I want it on the court record today. I’m only going to commit her to be remarried to me.”

SID: Well I wonder what that judge thought of that. And then, worse than that, after the divorce is granted, he asks, talk about chutzpah, that’s a Hebrew word meaning nerve, he asks his wife for a date after the divorce. So he prays and he fasts, and he gets discipled. And your wife must have been very fearful of going back to you as crazy as you were.

GARY: Sid, she had such tremendous fear. As a matter of fact, she knew that if she came back to me she had to trust God completely to restore everything in her life in her fellowship with God and me. That God would take us on a new journey, that our marriage would not be for ourselves, that it would be for the Kingdom of God, for the person or Christ. And the people that had been gripped by fear by tragedy and trauma in life, we would give our lives to see their lives delivered. But God gave her grace to come through that. As I fasted and prayed, I saw a miracle of God. She became born again, spirit-filled. When she trusted to remarry me, it was like stepping over a cliff. She said the fear was overwhelming and God gave me answers to fear and conquering it in people’s lives, whether it was tragedy, trauma, torment, confusion. It doesn’t matter where it came from, from natural stimulus in life, from prognosis from a doctor, somebody saying you’re insane. I mean, here I am pastoring a church two and half miles from the mental hospital that I was in. I haven’t gone very far in life, just down the way.

SID: But you know what interests me the most? Is this mandate you received. You were at a meeting. You got some 2000 prayer requests

GARY: Yes.

SID: And you found a common theme in these prayer requests.

GARY: I’m holding a meeting in Earl’s Court, which is a huge coliseum in London, on prayer. And I asked our church, and I get 2000 prayer requests I take with me. And as I’m studying these, I see that 70 percent of all the causes are rooted in fear of what people needed prayer for. And I began step by step, the Spirit of God began to lead me, Sid. I saw how fear had crippled, demeaned people. I watched the reality of it in these prayer requests. That whole week of prayer that I led in Earl’s Court was a breakthrough of prayer of breaking fear, tormenting confusion that had been over people’s minds.

SID: You studied every scripture on fear

GARY: Every one

SID: But tell me something. Was this just a good important thing to do? How much was God a part of it?

GARY: No. Sid, God gave me a mandate to go step-by-step, seek every person’s life that encountered fear. Gideon was a man of great fear that God called him a great man of valor. And it was the fear of being the poorest from the House of Manasseh It was the fear of how could God do the miracles when I’ve never seen it. And yet the fear of stepping over to the supernatural real, God gave me insight and access on how to deliver people from that fear to access the supernatural power of God.

SID: Give me that acronym that God gave you about fear.

GARY: F-False, E-Evidence, A-Appearing, R-Real

SID: Say it in a sentence.

GARY: False evidence appearing real.

SID: That is so simple and yet so profound. What does that mean to you?

GARY: That means to me that people trust in the natural world, it speaks to them one event, but God has an entire other event planned as long as that fear does not dictate to them. Sometimes it’s a doctor’s diagnosis. Sometimes it’s a prognosis of situation that they can’t see any other way out. It can be a bill they deal with. It can be a financial catastrophe about to occur. And the fear, it could be some failure they’ve had in your past that they feel they might be going back to that’s speaking to them, and God has given us clear and decisive instruction on how to set them free from every cause.

SID: Now you told me over the last 10 years you have not had fear. You really mean that.

GARY: Sid, I have not had fear.

SID: Aren’t you afraid of sickness? Aren’t you afraid of death?

GARY: You know, I was in Nigeria about two and a half years ago, coming up a hill, and I stopped breathing. I couldn’t breathe any more. So I flew back home. And the doctor comes, he’s a pulmonologist, and he says, “Gary, you have lung cancer. You have three months to live at best.” My wife is on a trip overseas as well for several months, so I can’t tell anybody. And I said to the doctor, I said, “That’s not true.” He said, “What do you mean it’s not true?” He said, “I’ve been a practicing pulmonologist for 20-some years.” I said, “It is not true.” I saw my death and I do not die from lung cancer.

SID: He had a vision of how he was going to die. But you don’t need a vision. All you need is the Word of God.

GARY: That’s right.

SID: God says you shall live and not die.

GARY: That’s right.

SID: Proclaim the works of the Lord. That’s for you. I’ll tell you what, when I come back I want Gary to tell me, now how many tumors did you have inside of you?

GARY: Eighty.

SID: Did you hear that? Eighty tumors. He’s in a foreign country. He has three months to live. Oy vey. We’ll be right back.