Sid: I have Pat Schatzline on the telephone, and Pat you told me last night had a dream in which I was in it. And I’d like you to tell me exactly what God told you to deliver.

Pat: Last night I fell asleep and was excited about our time again today and Sid somewhere between 4 AM and 5 AM I had a dream this morning and I’m sitting with you and we were in the audience I didn’t know where it was at. Well we were sitting at a desk and I turned to you and the Lord said “You tell him that I have not given him a spirit of fear but I’ve given him authority and I’m opening doors on his behalf. He cannot accept anything the enemy says.” And then He says “You tell the audience those that are listening if you’re walking through fear that God has not given us a spirit of fear but a power of love and soundness of mind.”   And I need to tell you audience those that are listening right now He said that “I can break depression, fear and discouragement and My joy can overwhelm.” But Sid it was so clear in this dream and I don’t have a great deal of dreams, I’m not an every night dreamer. But He said to me, and I wrestled with it, He said you tell Sid that fear has tried to overwhelm him for what I wanted him to do to stop and to let me do it.”

Sid: Sounds good to me. One of the messages we’re… the title is “Why is God So Mad at Me?” Now you have done a number of meetings with young people who are what are called cutters where they cut themselves. And by the time they hear this message not only do they get free from cutting but what happens to their scars?

Pat: You know it started happening 4 years ago at a big festival at Monterey, California. My son came to me and I had just got done speaking and he said “Dad, there’s a bunch of students that want to meet with you.” And I had spoken to about 30,000 and I said “Son, I’m tired I flew all night to get here.” He goes dad, you got to do this.” So I go outside and youth pastors are holding their teenagers with their arms out. And I said “Hey, what’s happening?”   And the Youth Pastors are weeping going “Their scars disappeared in the middle of your service.” First time it happened. Blood is still in some of their arms where they’d been cutting that morning in their tents at this festival, but their scars are gone. Sid but then it began to happen all over the place.

Sid: Now just out of curiosity are you saying, proclaiming that this is going to happen, or just because of the power and the anointing it just happens.

Pat: It just happens and you know what when I’m in the middle of speaking t and God will say “Tell them right now.” And I just did that in Indianapolis with about 7,000 teenagers and I said “God says that if you’re a cutter your scars will disappear.” I just go on preaching and all of a sudden a beautiful little girl comes running up after the service and I’m at the table and she’s dancing and I said “Sweetheart, what’s going on?” And she started dancing and I said “Sweetheart what’s going on because we have such a wounded generation. She said “I was raped by my father, I was raped by my stepfather, and I was raped by my boyfriend. A beautiful 16 year old girl and she said “And I’m a cutter.” But when you said that I looked down and she peeled back her band-aides. And she said “Sir, all my cuts are gone.” You know Sid, I asked God “I said “God, why do you do that, a very strange manifestation?” And He said Son, “When the love of a Father enters in when I break that orphan spirit I not only heal the inside but I can transform the outside.” And this happens all over the place when we go in. People that cut which cutting is controlled pain, people cut themselves. I’ve got family members that are not kids that cut themselves and they do it because it’s the only pain they can control and it becomes addictive.   It’s a high it’s almost like a drug. And so when God enters in and begins to heal them the inside he can manifest healing on the outside. And I have met over and over… one young lady I was speaking at an event and she was watching on the internet. She had cut herself so much even on her face that I’m preaching a message in the book “Weeping Lions of Glory Lambs.” She’s watching on the internet; goes into the bathroom in Detroit, Michigan to wipe her face off because she had been crying so much that even the cuts on her face were gone. And she actually sent me a Facebook message this morning because she’s telling her testimony at a suicide prevention center.

Sid: One time you shared this message and you had a vision for a couple who had recently lost their son he had died.

Pat: Right, that happened back in November this last year. I’m in Virginia a couple comes up to my table, the pastor’s wife and I’m actually signing a book of all things for someone. The Pastor’s wife whispers to me that this couple really got touched by God tonight. And I said “Okay” and I’m still signing. And she said “Their son was killed 2 months ago in a car accident he was 19 years old in Myrtle Beach. I dropped the book because my ultimate fear would be to lose my 22 year old son. I turn and grab the mother by the hands and she’s talking away. And instantly when I took her hands the Holy Spirit took me to heaven and I saw this tall lanky yet red headed young man worshipping before the throne of God. I immediately… and he had on a red flannel shirt of all things. And I immediately came back to the woman and she’s talking and I said “I have to interrupt you, I need to ask you some things,” I have never done this before. I said “Was your son tall.” And she said “Oh, tall and lanky.” I said “Did he worship with his arms spread out before.” She said “Just like an eagle.” And I said “Was he red headed?” And she said “Absolutely.” I said “I’m going to ask you something even crazier, did your son have a red flannel shirt?” Her teenage daughter who was standing right there, I write about this in the book. Her teenage daughter immediately begins to weep, she said “I go into his room and smell it every day it was his favorite shirt.” And I said “Mam you’ve been worried that your son did not make it to heaven, God told me to tell you that he made it and I saw him worshipping.” She fell out in the spirit, what that means she fell out on the floor and began to cry out to God. Her husband, their all probably my age in their 40’s weeping uncontrollably. He’d been taken from a life of drug addictions and all kinds of things and I put them in the book. In fact the book was at press and I called my publisher and I told them “Hold on I’ve got to add this story because God let me see heaven for this woman.”

Sid: Just out of curiosity, besides seeing her son did you see anything else in heaven?

Pat: Oh, all I saw was the glory of the Lord and I did see the knees and the feet of God on the throne.

Sid: Now when you say you saw the glory of the Lord, tell me what you saw.

Pat: Whenever you see the thick billowing smoke, white smoke in the clouds in the sky when you fly that’s what I saw all around me. In fact it was moving and dancing. And the very lights of heaven were bouncing off of it. And you know Sid I asked the Lord I pray every night “Lord, I want to see heaven.” And I said “Lord, you let me see heaven, why?” And he said “Son, blessed are the pure in heart because they shall see God.” You had no motives when you took her by the hand accept compassion. And compassion is the armor that God gives you to bring forth truth, but compassion is also the doorway to transform lives.

Sid: I’ve noticed when I read in the gospels about miracles and Jesus often that word “compassion” is in there. Have you seen…I think it’s wonderful the scars are disappearing from the cutters but have you seen other types of miracles happen?

Pat: Absolutely, we had a young lady come in a wheelchair completely crippled last year and rolled in. By the end of the service when I said to stand up for the altar call without thinking she had been hurt in an accident was completely handicapped paralyzed, she stood up. She suddenly realized that she was standing, the next thing I know she’s standing on her wheelchair and her mom is on the other end of the cell phone she’s screaming “Momma I’m healed, I’m healed.” And you know even another greater miracle was a 78 year old that came to me and said “Pat I cried all the way thru the service.” I said “Sir, are you okay” 78 years old lived in Canada. He said “You don’t understand that when you began to preach tonight God took me back to when I was 14 and he said “I’ve never been to church before till tonight 78 years old. When I walked my father to the train station he would be getting on a train to go into battle, to leave. He promised me that he would come back but he never came back. As I walked through the snow God gave me a vision, a 78 year old unsaved man said “God gave me a vision as I was walking back through the snow in the woods to go home after watching my father wave goodbye I saw Jesus come through the woods and put his arms around me.” The greatest compassion miracles and he’s just weeping and he just got saved. The greatest compassion miracles are not just physical it’s when God takes that wounded, weary, exhausted scarred person. I would say that the scars on earth are the testimonies in heaven. If you’ve not been through something’s you’re probably not a good soldier. But God and I’ve learned this that it’s impossible to have compassion without first having pain. So if your listening right now and you’ve been through a lot of stuff you know what you’ve been through is a great indication to what you’re called to. It’s how you defeat the enemy. I have compassion for someone that loses a sibling because I lost my sister to a drug overdose. I have compassion for those who have mental illness in their family, why? Because God takes what we been through and uses it for His glory. And not becomes instead of a crutch, it becomes a wing.

Sid: You know I’m hearing some words of knowledge so I’ve got to state them right now. People with arthritis in their hands and in their fingers if you’ll move your fingers, if you’ll move your wrists the joints actually any joint you’re being healed in Jesus Name right now. Have you seen people healed of cancer in your meetings Pat?

Pat: Yes Sir, absolutely in fact we had one little boy 14 years old had been sent home to die they brought him to a service and I walked over to him. I must interrupt this for just one second for a word of knowledge I see someone with a knot on their brainstem in the back of their head. And it is I don’t know if it’s benign or it’s cancerous but it’s back there and you know it’s there and it’s forcing you to have debilitating headaches and migraines and God is dissolving it right now as you’re listening to this. I don’t know who you are but it’s the back of your head at the cranium level. It’s back there about the C4, C5 area of your neck.

Sid: Okay finish the story of the person with cancer that person is healed in Jesus Name go ahead.

Pat: Yeah, it was actually a 12 year old young man in Oklahoma City his mother brought him to the service he had been sent home to die he looked like walking death. I came off the platform and went to lay hands on him and just said “Jesus says you’re healed right now.” The little boy says I believe it and we prayed for him, he goes home. Two days later I get a Facebook message from the Momma. “I took my son back to the hospital today, the doctors say all the cancer is gone. I saw that young man about…”

Sid: Oh we’re out of time…

SID: The, Steven, the Bible says that we are supposed to desire spiritual gifts.

STEVEN: Yes.

SID: What does that word “desire” mean?

STEVEN: In the Greek, it literally means to be boiling over. Some translations say, “white hot or on fire”. So God wants us to have the spiritual gift. Now some people said, well if the Lord wants me to have them, He’ll just give them to me. But in the Greek, it’s implied we need to go after them. Yes, God wants us to have them, but we have to pursue them. And when we pursue God and He sees that we really want these mighty gifts of the Spirit, He will release them into our lives and the church will be built up and many people will be blessed.

SID: You know, it specifically says we should go after prophecy.

STEVEN: Prophecy is a tremendous gift because prophecy, out of all the nine gifts, I believe is the easiest gift to have up and running in your life. It is so easy to prophesy. Whether it’s the simple gift of prophecy for exhortation, edification or comfort, or even deeper levels of prophecy, which begin to peer deeper into a person’s heart, the gift of prophecy is so easy to move in to. All you have to do is step out in faith when the Holy Spirit begins to move.

SID: I’m going to have Steven step out in faith. However, just as we came back from the break, I began to smell an aroma. In Israel, when Steven was praying for people, I could smell roses. It was the most wonderful smell. Okay. If I was to play a little game with Steven and say a word, except I know what he’s going to say, if I was to say the word “skunk”, tell me what comes to mind.

STEVEN: Well of course, that’s not a good fragrance.

SID: No.

STEVEN: Now see, when these gifts operate we can’t choose or tell the Holy Spirit how to manifest them. It’s as He wills. That’s how they’ll come forth. And He’s doing it now for our profit. Paul said that these gifts are for our profit, not our failure or for our demise. So they’ll put us over into victory. And so one time, I was in a conference and I was a guest speaker, but there were also many other speakers. Now I’ve been to tons of conferences, Sid, so nobody is ever going to know where this was at. Because when I was ministering, a speaker went up and began to minister, that I had never met. I wasn’t familiar with this person. But the moment they began to speak, the fragrance of a skunk went over the entire audience. I smelled the skunk. My wife turned to me and she said, she said, “Steven, I smell a skunk.” I said, “I know,” but I said, “I’m not in charge of the conference, but unfortunately, something is probably going to happen here that’s going to leave a stinky smell.” And some things did happen that almost—

SID: I’ll tell you what. We’re running out of time right now. There’s an urgency for you to pray right now for a release of the gifting that God has already put inside of people, and if God moves you into words of knowledge please be free.

STEVEN: If you want to receive the mighty gifts of the Holy Spirit right where you’re at right now, lift up your hands. A new measure of the anointing of God’s Spirit is coming on you now. Receive the gifts. The gift of prophecy is rising up within you right now. Somebody feels a burning in their hands. That is the gift of healing that has now been granted unto you. Somebody watching me just felt a mantel come right over your shoulders. Those are for the power gifts. Step out in special faith. Step out in gifts of healings and working of miracles. It’s yours. There are people watching right now all over the world who are smelling roses. God is giving you the gift of discerning of the spirits. Somebody is smelling flowers and beautiful floral scents. Lift up your hands and praise the Lord, for these gifts are being bestowed on you right now. And when the Lord gives a gift, He never takes it back. It’s yours for the rest of your life.

SID: You have to tell me, very briefly, you have seen Jesus’ face. What does he look like? What did you sense when you saw his face?

STEVEN: I’ve seen some beautiful paintings of the Lord that are close, but I’ve never seen a painting that’s got him just as who he actually really is. But he is the kindest person I’ve ever met. He is so kind. He is so humble. He has all of this power and all of this authority. He is the head of the complete church in Heaven and Earth, but he is so kind and humble.

SID: You know, did you hear that? How would you like your best friend to be the Creator of the Universe and his major virtue is he’s kind, he’s humble and he’s pure love? His name in Hebrew is Yeshua, in English, Jesus. If you will with your mouth say, “Jesus,” do this with me right now, say out loud, “Jesus, please forgive me for all of my sins. I believe your blood washes them away and now that I am clean, Jesus, come inside of me. I make you Lord of my life.” Amen.

 

 

Sid: If you’re not red hot now what are you waiting for? This is the time; did you say “I’ll be red hot in heaven?” Well, let me tell you of course you’ll be red hot in heaven but we need you red hot right now. And if you’re just a lukewarm Christian you ought to see what Jesus says about you in the book of Revelation. “He’ll vomit you out of His mouth” the only option is red hot. Some people say “Well oh that persons a fanatic.” No that person is normal, everyone else is abnormal. “But I want to conform to other people I don’t want to stand out.” Well, you don’t want to stand out you stand out for the devil if you don’t stand out. You know what I’m saying “The only way that you can stand up for God is to stand out. Well, I have a man that stand out his name is Chuck Pierce and I’m interviewing him on a book that I told him I wanted to change the title. I want to call it “Worship Wars” because we really are at war right now. But I’m speaking to Chuck Pierce at his office in Denton, Texas. And Chuck there’s a concept that I have not really focused in before and your book really focuses in this area and it has to do with ascending explain that.

Chuck:   Well, it’s so great to be with you again Sid and it was great meeting you in Israel in the midst of a war season in God’s covenant land. I mean actually it will intensify in the days ahead but when we’re grafted into God’s covenant plan and we’re grafted into Abraham’s blessing all of a sudden what we find ourself in the same war in the earth realm that God is joining in to bring forth His covenant blessings today with. And so one of the things I made a statement after 9/11 I said “This is the season that it’s a war season.” It’s a time for war, we find that in Ecclesiastics and I said “The only way that we’re going to win this war is to ascend and worship and descend and war.” Now the Lord actually spoke this to me Sid He said “Ascend into My throne room as you worship and then descend back to the harvest field and war for its release; I’m ready for the harvest to come into My Kingdom.” And so it makes you wonder how does ascending in worship and descending in war work? Well, ascending think of Jacobs ladder you mentioned that yesterday. Think of Jacob’s ladder, if Jacob had an open, he saw the angels ascending and descending; it established God’s presence in the earth realm in a peculiar way. Well, to ascend means to arise, now if you’re listening out there I love Isaiah 60 it says “Arise shine for your light has come and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.” Arise from the oppression and the depression that has held you down. So when we start worshipping our spirit starts coming into its position in heaven. The word ascend also means to climb, it means to come up. And I love this it means to grown, it means to increase, it means to leap. I mean the Lord can bring such joy into our life when we start worshiping that our spirit leaps. Elizabeth, John the Baptist leaped in Elizabeth’s womb and when he recognized Mary in the midst of Elizabeth carrying the Messiah. The same thing happens with us and also the word ascend means to recover and restore. And so really the issue about ascending is we come to this place where we’re worshipping God and we’re really communing with Him our faith level rises. And “Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.” The word comes alive to us and all of a sudden our spirit begins to leap and we know God’s plan for our life.

Sid: You talk in your book about the Second heaven and the third heaven; is there a problem that most people never breakthrough that second heaven which is Satan’s realm to get into the throne room?

Chuck: Well, I think most of us live down here in the first heaven actually.

Sid: So first heaven is like earth?

Chuck: It’s like the atmosphere above earth. See Satan we find in Ephesians is the prince of the power of the air so what Satan will do is he will invade the structures of society to conform our mind to the way society thinks. That’s what Romans 1 and 2 is about. But when we begin to worship God we break out of that conforming power of the earth around us we break out of the conforming power of the way the world thinks. All of a sudden our spirit starts rising into that position God’s given in the heavenlies seated next to the Father. Our feet begin to instead of being bogged down in the earth realm your feet gets planted on the enemies head, you quit thinking the same way that the enemy’s thinking and you move forward. Now what happens is that it’s just easy to see first, second, third heaven. You go through an atmosphere where Satan is controlling a structure, that’s the best way to look at it. You break out of the thinking process of that atmosphere and then you ascend into the throne room and while you’re there the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ starts communicating to us. You’ve been given access to come boldly into the throne room and you can know the mind of Christ.

Sid: But why is it Chuck that so many of us seem to have distractions to taking the time to worship.

Chuck: I love and one of the things I don’t know if you remember but in this book I write about the distractions I call them “worship distracters.” There’s so many things in this realm that we life that distract us from God, we quit thinking like Him, we don’t mediate on Him. I was telling you a key to my life is meditation where I’m really thinking on what God is saying.

Sid: Give me one specific example of how you might meditate.

Chuck: Well, I’ll get up and I’ll set my mind on Christ. I usually I’ll tell the Lord how much I love Him, hallow it be His name. I exalt Him for who He is but then what I’m going to do I’m going to start communicating with Him through His word. He’s written us a book if we’ll just get that and start talking to Him. During that time there’s certain times there’s things He’s having me pray for. There’s other things He wants to communicate to me His heart over to pray for. While I’m doing that I will see a scripture will illuminate to me. Well in just in singing to Him I talk about the air in this book and the sound of worship. And by singing to Him and worshipping Him and talking to Him all of a sudden I mean communicating with Him He impresses things on me and I know what to do. And I start pondering those things and then before the end of the day is out I have wisdom. Because I want to say something to us we forget this verse Sid, He tells us if we ask for wisdom we’ll get wisdom. He won’t withhold it from us.

Sid: So why is it so many people say “Okay, I’m not double minded I want wisdom” and they don’t get it.

Chuck: Well, it’s because we’re absorbed in our own way of thinking. We’re really a very independent people and we’re not dependent upon God.

Sid: And that’s actually idolatry isn’t it.

Chuck: It is it’s a form of idolatry I’d have to say one of the life changing scriptures of my life also is in James chapter 4 were it says “Submit yourself to God, resist the devil and then he’ll flee.” See so it takes those are both active words, submit means to stand underneath. Now most of us don’t equate submission to standing, but the word actually in the Greek means to stand underneath. And then when it says to resist or withstand it means to stand against. And what happens to us is most of us never stand underneath God under the shadow of His wings and then we can’t ever resist our enemy. And it takes both dynamics and then the word of God says the enemy will flee. You’ll draw near to God, He’ll draw near to you and you’ll be one and you’ll know how to move forward.

Sid: What are we going to do on tomorrow’s broadcast will you pray for our people?

Chuck:   I would love to spend time praying, communicating a few truths to them, things that might be hindering them and touching God and then praying for them.   And then let’s just let the Holy Spirit move and He perhaps will tell us some things specifically we need to pray about. If I got just a moment we were just in a meeting in Texas last week and many of you know we’ve been in this war in Iraq and worship was so dynamic. And in the dynamic aspect of worship all of a sudden I felt like I was in heaven and Pastor Dutch Sheets was up there and many of you know him through his book “Intercessory Prayer.” Was up there speaking and all of a sudden I knew that while we were worshiping I knew that while we were in San Antonio. And the Spirit of God said “The war in Iraq will turn within a week.” Well, all I could do which I had the liberty to do was to get up and communicate what God was saying and then He said, “Tell them that the strongman will be found.”

Sid:
And that was of course a month ago and we’re talking about the guy that was in the bottom of a hole “Saddam Hussein.”

Chuck:   And he was an enemy to God’s covenant plan in the earth realm. I’m going to tell you something if you worship God can find your enemy. Many times we get snared by our enemies, we can’t find our enemies, we can’t find what the enemy was doing. Pull aside and submit to God and resist the devil and He will give you revelation of where your enemy is, He’ll intervene on your behalf.

Sid: We don’t have time to go into it but your wife had a tremendous healing with you she was able to have a child. And actually oil went through her veins?

Chuck: She felt like hot oil was being poured through her veins. Of course we were in a denominational church and from the time God set me free from 18 and seriously after I was 24 which I shared earlier in this program I became just an avid seeker of God and a avid worshipper. And Pam was more resistant and when she started worshiping the Spirit spoke this to me He said “The new song will break the old cycle.” And she had never had a normal cycle in our time of marriage that had been over 10 years a normal monthly cycle. And when she shifted into a new form of worship God healed her right there and this is a recorded healing. John Wimber was ministering, this was in January…

Sid: She had endometriosis.

Chuck: She had endometriosis, the Lord intervened not…

Sid: Mishpochah tomorrow is going to be hot….

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, she’s been a guest several times on It’s Supernatural, is Joan Hunter. Now Joan, I have to tell you, we get more responses of people that have had miracles on her show than any other. But she tells me she is moving in some outrageous miracles. Now hold on to your seats. Put the seatbelt on. She tells me now it’s eight breasts have grown back on women. You heard me. Eight breasts have grown back on women. All right. It’s a perfect life, pastor’s life, four beautiful daughters. Everything is going good. Her husband exposes himself. He’s a homosexual. She finds this out for the first time. She is left homeless, penniless. And then a few days after the divorce she gets a death sentence from a doctor: breast cancer, two years to live. Here’s what I want you to do, Joan. There are people watching us right now that have death sentences or have loved ones that have had death sentences. Walk me through what happened to you. Take me from the sonogram.

JOAN: Well you’re laying on the examining table, you know, laying flat. Well, all of a sudden you get that, you see, the cancer there on the screen.

SID: Did you really see it?

JOAN: Oh yeah. I had him turn it so I could see it.

SID: I don’t know if I’d like to look at it.

JOAN: I didn’t, we really didn’t expect anything. And I’m like, oh, that’s not good. I mean, it was just very dark and stuff. And I’m laying there like this and I’m like, I’m like in a coffin. I’m like in a position for the coffin, which is exactly what happens when people get diagnosed with cancer, because it’s known as the “Big C”. Christ is the Big C, not cancer. Yes. Hallelujah. So I’m laying there and I’m like, oh Lord, you know, and you know, all these things are flashing. It’s like my girls have been through enough, they don’t need to worry about planning my funeral. So I’m laying there and I’m envisioning what I’m going to wear, this, that and the other, etc.

SID: Whoa. You know too much.

JOAN: I know that. I didn’t last too long.

SID: You were raised by the Happy Hunters.

JOAN: Right.

SID: But still, when that fear, and that’s what it was.

JOAN: It’s reality, in the natural, our natural mind goes right to the grave.

SID: You know, it’s one thing to teach it. It’s another thing to live it.

JOAN: And that’s why I love writing and teaching about how I’ve lived it, walked it out and got healed, and everybody can get healed. And so I’m laying there because this is what the enemy will do. He’ll try to, because of television, because of news articles, because friends that have died of cancer and different things, all this fear, you have an opportunity, all this fear comes on. And I’m sitting there and I’m like, what am I thinking? I’m like, boom, boom! I’m slapping myself while I’m laying there and I’m like, no, I’m gonna live and declare the works of the Lord. This day I choose life. I choose life, I choose life, I choose life. And I am going to live and not die, and declare the works of the Lord. And you know what? I am right here today still declaring the works of the Lord of my healing. Hallelujah.

SID: So let every man be a liar, but God’s Word is true, and God just told me, and His Word is true, if you have a pain in your neck, at home, studio audience, move your head, you’ll see that the pain is gone. Now while we’re at it, if you’ll stand up. If you have a backache, stand up in the studio audience. Stand up at home. Please do this right now. And so only the back row, they have backaches. What’s the matter? Okay. Good. Now bend over. Touch your neck. Check your neck. Move your head. Touch your neck, everything, even if you don’t have a problem. No, I’m just teasing. All right. Wave at me if the symptom is gone. Wave at me. Oh, I see one wave, two waves, three waves, four waves, five waves. I feel like an auctioneer. Five people got healed just now and how many thousands at home? Okay, Joan, take me back.

JOAN: Okay. So here I am laying there. Been through a horrendous time two days before with the divorce, not knowing what to do and I’m like, I can’t tell my girls. They’ve just been devastated. So I call my parents and I say, “This is what’s been diagnosed. I need you to come into agreement with me. Let’s pray on the phone.” So I lay hands. They agree with me on the phone and then at that point, a little bit later on in the evening I go, I take a shower and I say, “God, you know, I can live without a breast. I can live with different things, you know, and so forth and so on, but I can’t live with this broken heart.” And I said, “God, you know, I’ll serve you, I’ll declare your words, but,” I said, “I need help.” And I said, “God, I need you to heal my heart.” And long story, short, He healed me of depression, He healed me of a broken heart, of trauma and all these other things, and betrayal, unforgiveness, you know, a whole list of things. Worry was the main thing that I believe opens the door for breast cancer. And I’m just, and I was like, okay God, and praying and thinking, and I could feel the heaviness of the trauma leaving the heaviness of the betrayal and unforgiveness, and different things like that leaving. And so you know, I’m going back. We’re doing, you know, the final step before surgery, chemo, radiation, whatever, and talked to him about it. And so we go and they’re like, “Something happened in here. This is your x-ray from before. This is your x-ray today. Your social security numbers match up, but the pictures don’t match up at all.” But God supernaturally healed me. And the thing that’s so neat, hallelujah.

SID: I mean, remember, she saw that darkness of the x-ray. She was given two years to live. Go ahead.

JOAN: And then at that point I realized that I got the greater revelation of dealing with the root causes, not just with the cancer, but what brings on, what opens the door for sickness.

SID: You know what I want to find out? I want to find out how you heal a broken heart. We’ll be right back.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be worshippers of God. We want the marriages in our churches, in Messianic Jewish Congregations to provoke the world to jealousy. And right now there doesn’t seem to be much of a difference between marriages in the church and marriages outside of the church. We’re coming into the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit in all history and He wants your marriage to be what He has instructed to be. He wants it to be heaven on earth, He doesn’t want mutual toleration society, He doesn’t want divorce, He doesn’t want a weak… How important a man and woman in ministry is it for them to have a solid marriage? How important is it for a someone with working in the market place and considers themselves to be a good Christian to have a solid marriage? I’ve got on the telephone Pastor Gary Whetstone and Gary is Pastor of Victory Christian Fellowship in New Castle, Delaware. He’s President of the Gary Whetstone Worldwide Ministries which has founded over 207 Bible Schools worldwide. He’s been teaching marriage seminars of which I have 6 cassettes in a binder with a workbook called “What God Has Joined together” ….How important Gary Whetstone is a man’s wife if the man has a mega ministry, and is on television and wandering around the US, or the man is a head of a corporation, or he’s involved in all of these other activities where does the wife fit in in priority?

Gary: One of the things Sid that I think is very critical when we’re talking about husband and wife in relationship and that has to back to the Biblical basis of God called man and that God called woman. If you’re going to ask how does a woman integrate into a man’s life to bring forth the highest degree of fulfillment? First we must understand the creation of man. The gender of the male is the physiological and in the spiritual dimension originating out from God Himself. Man is an initiator, man is literally as a genius he is a creator that’s why Jesus had to come as a man and could not be a woman. Because the woman came from the man himself and her intrinsic quality and commitment is just like it says she is a woman. One that receives the seed of the future, one that takes the initiated plan, one that takes the future goals and objectives and she brings it into her life to incubate, to literally formulate and to assist in bringing that into fruition. I have found that when a man understands the nature of a man, and the Biblical understanding of relationship in marriage, and he understands the makeup of the woman Biblically there becomes a tremendous level of appreciation, value, honor, and esteem that man gives to the woman. It’s just like the scripture in John chapter 8 verse 31 and 32 Jesus said to those Jews that believed on Him that “If you continue in my word then are you my disciples in deed. And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” Many people only take a few sentences in the Bible and they try to build an entire life off of a few scriptures and that is ludicrous. The Bible says that you have got to continue, you begin on a path of revelation and you do not quit until you experience the freedom that’s in that revelation. That’s what I as a man, as a husband, as a father, as a Pastor in a church now, and the world Missionary Evangelist going and penetrating nations with the word is that there must be the depth of the continuation in truth for permanent freedom of result.

Sid: Let me ask you question you were divorced from your wife Faye, and it should have been written in concrete in history you will never see this woman again she will be remarried; you will be remarried you both go on your separate ways but that was not the way it was recorded. It’s recorded in history that you remarried, it’s recorded in history that you’re children had a mother and father to raise them, it’s recorded in history that the two you have become one and are accomplishing mighty things for God. What was it was there one ingredient that caused Faye your wife to change her mind and remarry you?

Gary: Sid I think that you could go to any of the disturbed marriages of America, those that have been divorced and those that are living miserable ever after. What it is, is that the wife is looking for change in the husband. And most of us despise the attitude that we have to prove ourselves to anyone and because of the depth of the insecurity and the inability of knowing what are the people looking for in our lives most men retreat in a depth of bitterness and frustration and anger when it comes to their wives wanting to see change. But the good news is this, the change comes when the man gives himself to the word of God. The word of God is able to clean them like Jesus said in John. He’s able to take the truth of the word and bring freedom. Change is the order of and the affect of the Holy Spirit in the word. When Faye saw change, not something I was trying to put on, but change that became a valid life transformation the conviction that God has changed me and His ability to change her was then set in concrete. That’s what really set her heart back again to believe that this is a new marriage. Nobody wants to return to the miserable life they had before. Everybody’s looking for change.

Sid: Question Gary, had you not followed Biblical principals or vice a versa if it was your wife that had become the believer had she not followed Biblical principles is there any way in the world a) That you’d be remarried; b) To be married today happily to someone else.

Gary: Yeah, the real of marriage is found in the fact that we can only experience what we know and what we don’t know unfortunately suffer the detriment of it. And without the word of God being the sign post of my life, being the very desire of my heart I could not have succeeded in my marriage with Faye nor in any other marriage. Because like many of us on the radio listening we have seen so many marriages they marry another woman or another man very similar to their first, very similar…

Sid: Isn’t it amazing I’ve seen that.

Gary: It’s because of the repetitive cycle it’s called a yoke. Isaiah 10 verse 27 deals with the anointing breaking the yoke and most people live a repetitive cycle of failure in their life because of invisible yokes that bind them. But you know that if a man or a woman, and it only takes one to reconcile a home it does not take two.   Because one moving in the God authority has power to bring visitation to the other spouse. It’s incredible what God will do if just one family member will stand.

Sid: Any exceptions?

Gary: I have never seen in my life as serving full time ministry and being a Christian, I have never seen any man or any woman who has radically sold out to the word of God not see results, never. And we have several thousand of people that every week come to our church in ministry. I mean there’s a lot of people, I mean we are working in multitudes of nations and in cultures that literally have made woman like cattle but we’ve watched it work in every culture. Even in polygamy where men have said “Okay, I’ve got 9 wives.” Many of our areas of Africa that we minister in have that type of lifestyle; we have seen the word transform those homes and families.

Sid: Gary, I’m going to be so bold as to say that every pastor listening to us needs this to help those that he’s going to marry.

Gary: Absolutely.

Sid: Tell me about one family that has changed.

Gary: We have a family that’s in our church that… what had happened was that one of the spouses had fallen into adultery and had never been able to come free in the relationship with the other spouse because of the pain and the fear of rejection in being exposed and held that sin inside for years. As they heard teaching on “What God Has Joined Together” the power of the blood, having cleansing in the relationship, having a fearless communication without the fear of rejection they took the chance in a very controlled environment to share what had happened at a point of weakness in the earlier years in marriage. You know what happened Sid?

Sid: What?

Gary: Because the word had been planted in the husband and the wife there was no judgment, there was only the sense of “I thank God this pressure is off of your life.” Where many other times if it was in the world or even some Christian that I know the husband or the wife would have just flared up with anger, bitterness, frustration or accusations.

Sid: Well I have Mark Biltz on the phone. Mark has been a guest on Messianic Vision previously. For those that aren’t familiar with him he’s pastor of El Shaddai Congregation in Bonny Lake, Washington. He is the one that pioneered the research of tying the blood moons with the feasts and being warning signs from God tied in with the scriptures. And as a matter of fact 2 people that have wonderful books on the subject John Hagee and Perry Stone all quote him because he got the original revelation. So I figured that there’s so many people even the secular press Mark is interested in the blood moons and there’s such an interest in it I want to get the guy that had the original revelation. So let me take you back to when that started; how long ago was it that you originally got a revelation on the blood moons?

Mark: I would say it started in March of 2008 when I saw a total lunar eclipse when I saw it on Purim over the Temple Mount.

Sid: And for those that aren’t familiar with what a blood moon is would you give is the ABC of it.

Mark: Well sure, a blood moon would be a total lunar eclipse. When it’s only a partial lunar eclipse the moon doesn’t turn red or when it’s a penumbral, where the moon doesn’t go directly behind the earth it’s two one side.

Sid: I want you to get even more basic what is an eclipse, why is it red?

Mark: Sure, what happens is when the earth is exactly between the sun and the moon the sun’s light rays that go around the earth’s atmosphere get affected. The shorter blue rays get cast off, but it’s the longer red ray that make it through that hit the moon giving it the red glow.

Sid: Now I personally have never seen a blood moon have you seen it?

Mark: Oh several times.

Sid: What did it look like to you?

Mark: It was incredible it didn’t start red it starts black as it begins to cover the moon from the left to the right. And then at the very end when the last bit of light goes out it switches to this beautiful blood red that’s just an incredible color, it’s just gorgeous.

Sid: Now tell me, we’ll kind of fast forward for a moment, why it’s important for me to know about blood moons and Biblical Feasts and them happening together.

Mark: Yeah sure. The thing that’s incredible if you believe the Bible in Genesis chapter 1 verse 14 it literally says “That created the sun and moon for signs.” We think that it was mostly for light and heat but we see that the very first thing He mentions is for signs for sending signals kind of like “One if by land, two if by sea.” Then the next word is for season. Well the problem is with our English translation because the same English word they translated seasons in Leviticus 23 they translated feasts. So what does that mean fall or food? Actually both are in accurate the word Moad means a divine appointment as if God decided God wanted the sun and moon to send signals on His divinely appointed dates. I believe when He was going to intersect human history it’s totally supernatural.

Sid: Tell me back to 2008… tell me the progression of this revelation.

Mark: Sure on the internet and I saw this beautiful blood red moon over the Temple Mount and I got to thinking about the verses in Isaiah, in Joel, in the Gospels in Revelation where it talks about the sun turning to sackcloth and the moon to blood. And I thought oh wow this… these have to be total lunar eclipses. So I went to NASA’s website…

Sid: Now just out of curiosity even before this did you know much about astronomy and think about areas like this or is this all or was this all new to you?

Mark: I loved astronomy I had a telescope growing up; I had binoculars and I always loved to look at the moon and the rings around Saturn, you know and Mars. And I always had somewhat of an interest in astronomy. I was in the Boy Scouts okay and I think that…

Sid: Well I was in the Boy Scouts but I didn’t have much interest in astronomy, but go ahead. (Laughing)

Mark: Yeah any way I always loved creation I mean to almost 19 to declare the glory of God. And then for me it was just saw the glory of God and I would know. I would just wonder I was filled with wonder and amazement. And then again thinking that from a Biblical standpoint that God said that this would happen and because He created it mathematically science could record 5000 years of eclipses. I thought “Well let’s go see if there’s any interesting eclipses coming up.” And when I went to NASA’s website I noticed that in 2014 and 2015 that there would be 4 total eclipses in a row. And that just kind of caught my eye. I start researching their website and saw that they called it a Tetrad but I thought it didn’t happen at all in the 1800’s and 1700’s and the 1600’s. So I thought that it was quite interesting and I thought that it would be happening in April and October and April and September. And so I went to my prayer closet it was about 4:00 in the morning I was getting up for prayer for weeks at a time at that time to pray. And I was contemplating this a thought came to my mind that I need to put these on the Biblical holidays. So I went to my computer so I switched from April to October to when they fell on the biblical calendar and when I saw that they fell on Passover and Tabernacles both years in a row I just about jumped out of my skin and so I had to go back and look. And then when I saw the last time it happened on these Feast days was 1967 when Israel captured Jerusalem. Right before that when they became a nation in ’48 and I’ll tell you I was doing the Hallelujah dance.

Sid: Well I can see that by putting those two together and seeing 2 of the major events history just happened to be when they had these blood moons. I can see why you did a little Pentecostal dance.

Mark: (Laughing) Well then looking at the book of Genesis and seeing that God created them for signals on His feast days I kind of look at this more. So I knew God is 100% accurate not 99% so I went to see if there were any interesting solar eclipses. And low and behold on Nisan 1, the first day of the religious calendar I mean this is the grand opening ceremony of Moses Tabernacle when the fire fell from heaven and licked the altar. Here is the total solar eclipse on Nisan 1 followed by the total blood moon lunar eclipse on Passover, followed by another solar eclipse on Rosh haShana, followed by another blood moon on the Feast of Tabernacles in 2015.

Sid: Now a lot of people have taken your teaching beyond your teaching have put definite prophetic events that are going to happen. What is your spin on that?

Mark: Well I don’t think that’s wise to ever set dates and I never set dates. But one thing I like to say is I don’t control an eclipse okay, I don’t control the calendar. NASA says that when these are falling God is saying He’s set them up that way. And all I say is “We have to be watching.” I believe that we need to be watching and praying…

Sid: And yet if we see what happened two of the major events in Israel’s history on these particular dates on these particular feasts we say “Maybe it’s something even more than a prophetic warning maybe it’s beyond that.”

Mark: I think so I think in one sense it really is but I don’t know when the event will happen but the thing that is so significant Sid according to NASA you only average one total eclipse every year and a half. Here we have 4 in the year and a half on the Biblical holidays. And the last one get a load of this is a supermoon. This is…

Sid: What’s a supermoon?

Mark: It is when the moon because it’s orbit is elliptical it’s when it’s at its closest point to earth. That is when it’s a perigee is what it’s called. Now sometimes it’s not a full moon when it’s at its closest point it’s at a new moon so you don’t even see it. But think about the odds of this, here you’re going to have a full moon at perigee. So it’s going to be a super moon that is completely blood red and not only that but the closed point to earth for the entire year and it is seen in Jerusalem. It is seen in Jerusalem on the Feast of Tabernacles when all of the Jews are outside looking up at the heavens. And not only that the culmination that makes it totally astronomical it also is the Sh’mitah year the 7^th year of the 7 year cycle when God required all men, women, children, Jews and non-Jews to be in Jerusalem to hear the king of Israel read from the Torah.

Sid: Now what is… has this ever happened before according to your knowledge?

Mark: According to my knowledge it’s never happened before that you have a total blood moon that is part of a tetrad that is also the sh’mitah year that is ceasing in Israel. This is just incredible!

Sid: Okay our time has slipped away but we’ll go into more detail the rest of this week with Pastor Mark. I love the calendar you put together, I love the book called “Blood Moons Decoding the Imminent Heavenly Signs” and then the DVD. How did you get such I hate to put it this way “How did you get such a beautiful DVD? I mean this is not a typical Christian approach.

Mark: That’s for sure well World Net Daily, and Joseph Fara, George Escobar did a wonderful job. The cinematography is absolutely incredible. The sound, the music, the score is just incredible.

Sid: Just as a matter of review Mark I want you to tell me what a blood moon is, how frequent they are; how frequent they are on feast days and how frequent they are, as you blew us out of the water yesterday and you talked about not only are they coming up on the feast days, but a which is highly unusual, but it’s what’s known as a supermoon. So if you could briefly summarize that.

Mark: Well sure, a blood moon is a total lunar eclipse. It’s caused by the light rays going through the earth’s atmosphere when it’s between the moon and the sun. And the longer red light rays hit the moon so it looks like its blood red. And according to NASA you only get a total lunar eclipse, or blood red moon, once every year and a half. But here we have 4 within a year and 1 ½ and on top of that Sid their falling on the Feasts days God’s appointed times. This is like God’s heavenly billboard trying to communicate to us and warn us of things coming.

Sid: Now the scriptures tell us that this is God’s method of warning us explain some of those scriptures.

Mark: Exactly, well in Genesis 1:14 God said “He created the sun and the moon to send signals on Passover.” That’s basically what He said, He says “For signs and seasons” but that word for seasons is Moad referring to the appointed times like Passover. This is why in Luke 21:25 Jesus says that “There will be signs in the sun and the moon.” Well how could we not expect it if that’s why they were created for?

Sid: Now you also use a phrase when there are 4 eclipses in a row there’s a scientific phrase explain that.

Mark: Yes, the term is a tetrad when you have 4 blood moons in a row without a partial or a penumbral in between.

Sid: Excuse me you lost me a penumbral? (Laughing) Is that like a crinumble or something?

Mark: It’s called a penumbral and that is when it doesn’t go directly behind the earth, but just kind of the earth is not directly between it. Here’s the thing, according to NASA in the last 2000 years only 62 times have you had 4 blood moons in a row.

Sid: In how many years?

Mark: Two thousand years.

Sid: Hm.

Mark: In 2000 years you’ve had 4 total eclipses in a row 62 times but guess what? Only 8 times have they fallen on the feast days. This is what really increases the odds it’s only 8 times in 2000 years has this happened. And look what’s happened last three. Here in ’67 Israel captured Jerusalem. Right after it became a nation in ’48 and then before that it was at the Spanish inquisition in 1493 and 1494.

Sid: And so when was the last time we had something like this happen?

Mark: Well only 8 times has it happened in the last 2000 years where they’ve fallen on the feast days.

Sid: Now have you done research? If the 2 you mentioned ’67 and ’48. The birth of Israel, Jerusalem in Jewish possession just happened to occur on 2 of them have you researched the others out of curiosity anything interesting happen?

Mark: Well yes as a matter of fact like I said Christopher Columbus was a lot of people realized was Jewish. You got a boat load of Jews leaving Spain on the 9^th of Av. All of the Jews were kicked out of Spain and Portugal. And so 1493 and 1494 but you know what’s incredible there were solar lunar eclipses all over the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. You can go back and research it in and 69, 70, and 71 there were solar and lunar eclipses around the temple. And around the death of Jesus in 32 and 33 AD there were solar lunar eclipses all over the feast days.

Sid: Now I know that you don’t like to do this but I’m going to put you on the spot Mark.

Mark: Sure.

Sid: Since things of prophetic nature occur when all of these signs occur on feast days, and that’s pretty obvious. The ones coming up you’re sanctified speculation what might happen?

Mark: Well here’s what I think might happen and this is based on facts, based on history, and based on scriptures. In Joel where it talks about sun turning to sackcloth and the moon turning to blood is given in the same context where the verse says “God will judge all nations that are trying to divide the land of Israel. And here we have this big push to divide the land of Israel. I believe that these 4 blood moons on God’s heavenly billboard is warning Israel not to divide their land, warning the nations not to divide their land or their will be consequences.

Sid: Why do you say that they’ll be consequences to the nations for dividing the land of Israel?

Mark: Well because that’s what God says in Joel 2 that’s what God says I’m the messenger (chuckle) you know. And I’m just saying that what God says “He’s going to judge all of the nations that are parting his land.” So when you look at the odds the facts of history there’s a war involving Israel in ’48, a war involving Israel in ’67, prophetically there could be a war involving Israel in the next year and half or two. So that’s one. There’s something else but I’ll just say that’s one for what I think might happen.

Sid: Oh, tell me the something else.

Mark: Ha, ha okay well here’s the other thing it’s only if you’re on the right calendar and this is why that Biblical Calendar is so important. Christians need to be aware the prophecies that are prophesied will happen on the Biblical dates. But if we don’t know where they are on our calendar we won’t know when the prophecy is fulfilled. And one of the things that I see and people don’t know that in 2001 that was a Shemitah year and it was on Rosh Hashanah that the Dow fell 7%. And the Shemitah year is an economic reset year. This is when the debts were to be forgiven okay. So what do you see an economic reset on Rosh Hashanah in 2001 which was a 7th year of the 7 year cycle the Dow falls 7%. Exactly 7 years later in 2008 now it wasn’t the same day on our Gregorian calendar but it’s the same day on the Biblical calendar. It was at Rosh Hashanah the 7^th year the 1^st day of the 7^th month the Dow falls 777 points. It was a 7% drop on a failed 700 billion dollar bailout resulting in a 700 Billion dollar loss. And so now here we’re coming to 2015 Rosh Hashanah year the end of a Shemitah year and we have a solar eclipse. So I’m saying that there’s a good possibility that we could have a global economic catastrophe this could be our third strike.

Sid: Well you know speaking about dividing up the land, and obviously Joel makes it very clear that the judgment of the nations in the last days these Joel chapter 3 will be based on one fact and one fact alone, dividing up the land of Israel. But you know what I’ve notice every war that Israel’s had in modern times it has not started. But every war that Israel has had in modern times has ended up with Israel having more land. So that’s my intuitive spiritual spin “Israel will end up with more land before it’s all over.”

Mark: I totally agree, I think that’s what’s going to happen. I think that Israel may be the safest place to be.

Sid: Well before we tell people you represent the Israeli Chamber of Commerce, no I’m just teasing I want you to tell me about your book and your DVD series called “Blood Moons Decoding the Imminent Heavenly Signs.”

Mark: Yes I would love to the book is so much more than just about blood moons. I go into how ever Hebrew letter is a sign. And the Hebrew word for letter is the same Hebrew word for sign. And I go into the ancient paleo-Hebrew, or proto-Canaanite, where every letter was a picture. And I show how Jesus Yeshua is in every letter. I go through some of the letters. But then I also go into replacement theology and how that is so unacceptable and unbiblical. And then I go into calendar…

Sid: And there’s so many Christians that feel that God is finished with the Jew; God is finished with the land of Israel. There in for a big shock. They don’t know that all events at His first coming were involving the land of Israel. And all events at His return involve that same land. He is going to return to Israel; I mean they are going to be in a boat that will be rudderless with that understanding.

Mark: Oh yes I totally agree and here’s something that how I kind of end the book that I think is so amazing. The Book of Ruth I believe is very prophetic. Ruth and Orpah were non-Jews grafted into Israel. So I think that they represent the church. And what you see Ruth whose name means friend joins the Jew works the harvest from Passover to Pentecost from the barley to the wheat and ends up bringing forth the King David and the Messiah through King David. Orpah her name means to turn the back of the neck. And she turned her back on the Jew and went back to her Pagan gods. I really believe prophetically in the book of Ruth the dividing line in the church is going to be the Ruth church who joins the Jew and works the harvest and brings in the Messiah. Versus the church the Orpah church that turns her back on Israel and joins the one world church.

Sid: Okay, quickly tell me about the DVD.

Mark: Yes, the DVD the cinematography is absolutely incredible. George Escobar did phenomenal it was like a regular movie. The musical score was just incredible and just the scenery, oh my goodness. They’re going to love the DVD it’s just incredible.

Sid: Now in order for you to… no I’ll tell you what Mark, I want to go back to the first time that you taught this after the revelation in your congregation. What effect did it have on the members of your congregation?

Mark: Well it was shock and awe that’s all I could say shock and awe. And even to me as well and even as we had discussed earlier this is kind of like a progressive revelation the Holy Spirit just kind of constantly just revealing more and more things as we go in 2008 when I discovered this. And that’s when our congregation really took off we were like oh 280 – 300 people and then we jumped up to about 600.

Sid: But how did it become a book so quickly?

Mark: Well I… you know it was amazing I was giving the notes away from that first service just on our website anyone could read it and it was just going like wildfire. And 4 or 5 other people writing books on my material, then Joseph Farah with World Net Daily called me and said “Pastor Mark you’re the one that knows all of this you know the signs and the meat and the potatoes why don’t you write a book?” So this was last October and so I said “Well okay what do you need?” He said I need you to write 60,000 words in the next month put it all together for me. So I said “Okay, I have everything you know over the years you know I compiled it all and put the book out and it was released in March.

Sid: You know Mark you are such a conservative man by nature and a teacher by nature that I would really be curious to get your spin on whether… I mean in every good believer says that Jesus is going to return in their life time, but in your inner-most being based on your scholarship what do you believe?

Mark: I believe we are that generation there’s no doubt in my mind and I base a lot of that on Psalms 102 where it talks about “When the Lord shall build up Zion that’s when He will appear in His glory.” Well Zion is another name for Jerusalem and its back in Israel’s hands in ’67 and it’s being built up with all of these settlements that the world is so upset about. And in the next verse it says “This is being written for the generation to come.” But in Hebrew the word “acharone and it means the terminal generation it means the last generation. Now I don’t know how long a generation is but I believe that we are that generation.

Sid: Fair enough. Now you state if we throw out the feasts days then we have thrown out the ring decoder. When I was young they used to sell these little decoder rings where you could figure out the answers to questions. Explain to people that don’t know about that.

Mark: Oh yeah I loved that oh man when I was growing up I loved the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew you know all of those detective things coming up with secret codes. And I had my own decoder ring as well and to think that I found it goes back to the feast days. God said He created the sun and moon to send signals on His feast Days. And see here’s a Muslim calendar it’s based totally on the moon. The calendar the world uses it’s based totally on the sun. But God said in Genesis “Let them be for seasons, days and years.” The sun and the moon so that means He’s using the Jewish calendar for intersecting human history for sending His signals. So if we don’t understand His feast days we won’t understand how to decode when He’s trying to talk to us. I liken it to a baseball coach who tips his hat for the base runner to steal. If the base runner doesn’t know the code or the signal he’s going to miss an opportunity. So to me these feasts literally in Hebrew the word Moad means a divine appointment. Then that word convocation the Hebrew word is Micrah and it applies more than an assembly. It’s a dress rehearsal so I asked everyone “Do you want to be at the wedding of the Lamb?” And they all go “Yes.” And then I say “Why don’t you want to be at the dress rehearsals for the wedding?”

Sid: Briefly why are the first feasts mentioned in the Bible called the spring feasts, dress rehearsals of the first coming of Jesus? Why are the fall feasts the last feasts mentioned in the Bible dress rehearsals of the return of Jesus? And you state in your book that His first coming and His return are going to be fulfilled to the day an hour of His coming through the feasts.

Mark: Yes, it’s absolutely incredible. You know I tell people in Revelation it says “Jesus was slain for the foundation of the world.” What that means is it was planned out by the Father from the very beginning. It’s not like Jesus died and the Father goes “Oh go to plan B and resurrect it” you know. And he even had David write the hymns that were going to be sung at his son’s funeral. That’s why the songs were sung. And to get an idea Jesus did not die on any particular day He died on Nisan 14 on Passover. And in the gospels it says that He was bound to the cross the third hour of the day. Well that’s 9:00 in the morning the time of the morning sacrifice. He died at 3:00 in the afternoon and…

Sid: What you’re showing is He was such… the animal sacrifice on that day was such a precise shadow of Jesus that even the timing was the same.

Mark: It’s incredible! At the very moment the high priest is binding the Passover lamb to the altar their binding Yeshua to the cross. And their singing Psalms 118 the Hallel “Bind the sacrifice with cords, even to the chords of the altar.” Can you imagine Josephus says that over 2 million Jews for Passover. Here’s this 2 million member choir Jesus is hearing them all sing “Bind the sacrifice with chords” at the very moment that their binding him to the cross and binding the Passover lamb to the altar.

Sid: And you know it wasn’t like modern Jew today or a Gentile Christian today He understood exactly, He understood He was the same sacrifice that all of those years they were doing the shadow of.

Mark: Yeah! And they were singing the song for 1000’s of years before when David wrote it hear they were singing these songs on Passover. What are they singing Psalms 118 “The right hand of the Lord is lifted up, the right hand of the Lord does valiantly.” You know I mean this is incredible.

Sid: Oh I love the part of Psalm 118 which says “The stone which the builders rejected, (The builders were the Jewish people) it’s become the chief cornerstone,” I like that part. (Laughing)

Mark: Oh yes because when it says they sang a hymn and went over the Mount of Olives and where He was betrayed and rejected that is exactly the last hymn that they sang was the fact that He was the stone that the builders rejected. It’s incredible. So if He became the Passover Lamb on Passover to the hour the next day He’s buried on unleavened bread, then He rises on the Jewish Feast of First Fruits becoming the First Fruits of the Resurrection. And then most Christians don’t know that the Jews have been keeping Shavuot or Pentecost for 1500 years before Acts. So what did Peter say “These guys aren’t drunk it’s the third hour of the day.” Well that’s 9:00 in the morning time of the morning sacrifice is exactly what had happened.

Sid: You know I understand when Jews and Gentiles that are believer in the Messiah start seeing how precise God is why it actually kicks their faith into another gear.

Mark: Oh my goodness it’s like adding nitrogen I mean it’s….

Sid: What are you seeing on people wander into your congregation and catching this for the first time how do they react?

Mark: Well I’ll tell you what it’s the same reaction I’ve heard year after year everyone is in shock and awe and they say “We’ve been robbed! We’ve been robbed! Why haven’t we heard this before?” In Jeremiah it says the Gentiles are going to come and say “We’ve inherited lies and vanity and things that don’t profit” you know. And so for me the greatest revelation is being on the Biblical calendar which is why we have this calendar. Do you know Sid, 2 years from now Easter is a month before Passover. How do you celebrate the resurrection a month before He dies?

Sid: (Laughing)

Mark: We’re not even on the right calendar.

Sid: Well now our time has slipped away. Tell me about your book and this amazing DVD it’s not your typical Christian DVD, it is a top secular DVD making these principals so simple everyone that gets the book and DVD will totally understand it. Tell me what they’ll understand from the book and DVD.

Mark: Sure, what they’ll understand is how wrong replacement theology is. They’ll understand how to understand the signs that God sends, even the Hebrew letters are signs. They’ll understand the science behind all of this and the math. And they’ll understand what we are to do and the DVD is just incredible cinema photography where you know he just shows all of these eclipses and the different things that are going on. The book, and the DVD, talk about how the importance of God’s appointed times.

Sid: And then of course you go into the Biblical feasts and you explain how precisely they occur which is going to nothing but increase your awe of God. But I love your teaching on the blood moons. Tell me some scripture in reference to the blood moons why we should know about them.

Mark: Well what comes to my mind is Luke 1:25 where Jesus says “There will be signs in the sun and the moon.” And the amazing thing about the sun and moon they speak in every language you don’t have to have an interpreter. Okay every language understands the sun and the moon and the eclipse they have for history that God is trying to communicate. And when we see they fall on the feasts days that’s when they have the great significance. And so the whole key is to understating what God is saying is saying, is when these eclipses fall on His appointed time.

Sid: Tell me one last thought for someone that says “God is finished with the Old Testament all we need is the New Testament.” What would you say to that person?

Mark: Well I would ask them “Is God the same yesterday, today and forever?” And the other thing I would say “When did He become God’s editor, I mean God is the what?”

Sid: I actually I like to say that “Did you know the first church only had one Bible and I’ll give you a clue it wasn’t the New Testament.” And it did pretty good for the first… oh we’re out of time.

Sid: There’s something going on it’s almost in the atmosphere it’s by the Spirit of God. Christians that have never had a burden for the Jewish people or Israel are supernaturally getting this burden. One of the things that many Christians are finding is that our roots, the roots of our Biblical faith were hijacked by this character Constantine. We’ve been anemic in intimacy with God ever since, but as God is restoring the original roots of the faith; as God is bringing the Jew and the Gentile together; as God is breaking down that middle wall of separation the intimacy is being restored with God. That’s why I got so fascinated when last Passover I was in Israel and I met my friends the Morey’s and I saw their calendar that they had proposed to come out for the beginning of the month of September, it’s called The Zechariah Prophecy Calendar. I literally fell in love with it. This calendar is produced and printed in Israel. It’s 13.5 x 26. A Russian artist did the artwork from prophecies in Zechariah in English as well as Hebrew. I know that I’m always wondering what is the exact date of Yom Kippur or Passover? Also the exact scriptures that are read in the synagogues on each of these Biblical festivals. So you have this very beautiful calendar, the artwork is literally suitable for framing. Some of you will probably tear it apart but don’t do it it’s too beautiful. This calendar… and there’s actually room to write your… it’s a large enough calendar to write your appointments or things you have scheduled…. This is a 16 month calendar and it starts in the month of September because that’s the Jewish New Year and we have so many festivals that begin in that month and it’s about time you start understanding your Jewish roots and identifying with Jewish people. I have Eric Morey on the telephone; I’m speaking to him at his office in Tiberias, Israel. On yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about why he chose the book of Zechariah to have illustrated. It’s not just pretty pictures, I mean each… there’s a presence of God on this. Eric and his wife Terri have been living in Israel. Eric is not Jewish from Denver, Colorado. His wife Terri is Jewish and you have been there… did you tell me what 19 years?

Eric: Yes Sid.

Sid: Living in Israel. So you’ve seen a lot of changes in those 19 years.

Eric: Hmm, it’s true we’ve been here for more than a third of the lifetime of this country.

Sid: Just off the top of your head, from the day you arrived until today what’s one of the biggest changes you’ve seen?

Eric: Well we see especially recently a real opening to the gospel here. We see that as a developing thing but we’ve seen recently, very recently actually, an acceleration in that that’s very very exciting.

Sid: Well I believe that the scripture, the word of the Lord, will go about from Zion. Is literally going to be fulfilled in our lifetime. Fiery evangelists like Paul the Apostle are going to be literally knocked off their horse, rabbis are going to come to the Lord and the word of the Lord will go out from Zion. These Jewish believers are going to breathe new life into the church, that’s what I see happening. However, we were talking about Zechariah the 12^th chapter yesterday and I was reading from the 3^rd verse about what is actually occurring before our very eyes. I’ll read it again “And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples. All who would heave it away would surely be cut in pieces though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.” So I said to Eric yesterday “Eric, aren’t you a little concerned you and your wife living there right in the center of a place that God says ‘All the nations of the world are going to come against you?’ Isn’t it a little scary?” And you said “Yeah the scary part means all the United States of America.”

Eric: Hmm. Yeah we… when we did this painting actually we did this painting twice of Zechariah 12:3 of the nations gathered against Jerusalem. We did one was kind of timeless where they were sort of dressed in Biblical costume and it was kind of a mythical Jerusalem there in the center that they were attacking. Then I began to realize that we’re talking about something that’s about to happen. In fact, it is happening. You can see the nations of the world lining up against Jerusalem. For example, go back to 1947 the United Nations voted General Assembly voted 2/3 to have a Jewish state created in what was then called Palestine. So 2/3 of the General Assembly voted for Israel in 1947. In the last few votes in the General Assembly, and there is an inordinate number of votes, hugely unbalanced number of votes concerned with Israel, always against Israel. The votes today are usually something like 153 to 2, or 153 to 3, and 3 are usually Israel, the United States, and Micronesia or something like that. It’s unbelievable, it’s supernatural. 153 nations usually don’t agree on anything in this world, yet against Israel they will agree. Yet if you recall a few months in the Security Council they had a… when Israel was going into Jenin and the United Nations of course had to discuss this and express their views about it. They voted in the Security Council 15 to nothing against Israel, Israel must immediately withdraw from the cities which they had entered out of self-defense. There were bombers coming out of these places killing civilians. The United Nations got up and said “No, you have to leave now.” 15 to nothing means the United States voted against Israel.

Sid: I happen to believe in Genesis 12:3, I was very grateful that our president delayed the formation of a Palestinian state. I used to be a stockbroker Eric with Merrill Lynch. There is something called “selling the market short,” in effect you bet the stock market will go down as opposed to going up. I said to a number of my friends “If the president of the United States votes for an immediate Palestinian state you can make a fortune, sell the market short it’s going to go south. I think forever.” We were given a little grace in the United States and that was stalled and I’m going to believe that God has a great plan for America and America will not, as you just illustrated, be on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to the vote for a Palestinian state.

Eric: Eventually they’ll send for Zechariah 12:3 to come to pass for all the nations of the world to come against Jerusalem. Again as you see these conflicts developing it is clearer and clearer that Jerusalem is the focal point of this whole conflict; not only Jerusalem but the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. This whole Intifada started the day… Ariel Sharon wasn’t even Prime Minister yet walked up on the Temple Mount. The Camp David process with Barak and Clinton broke down, and Arafat broke down because they would not release the Sovereignty Act… Barak was willing to give some autonomy in Jerusalem but he wasn’t willing to give sovereignty and Arafat would not accept anything less and that’s when it broke down. So Jerusalem is the focal point, the core of this conflict is the Temple Mount. Why? Because the Temple Mount is God’s throne on earth. The devil, whom I believe is one and the same with Allah, wants to dethrone God from His throne on earth on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. You can read all about it in Isaiah 14.

Sid: Let’s go back to Zechariah, I just believe… now you call it the Zechariah Prophecy Calendar but I believe it’s just purely a prophetic calendar. Zechariah it reads like to me like today’s newspaper of some of the things it says. I’m looking at Zechariah 14 “For I’ll gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem. The city shall be taken, the houses rifled, the women ravaged, then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations and in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, the Mount of Olives will be split in two.” I’ve been told there’s a geological fault on the Mount of Olives that could very well be the beginning of that splitting in two.

Eric: Yeah I understand that too. I’ve seen some drawings in fact of that. It is going to split in two, and it’s going to go to the north and it’s going to go to the south. There’s going to be a valley created in between and the Jews, the survivors who are left in the siege and destruction are going to flee out to that valley. At that very moment, and this is another painting in this calendar, at that very moment Zechariah 14:5 it says “And the Lord my God shall come and all the holy ones will see.”

Sid: Describe that painting I see it too it’s beautiful.

Eric: Yeshua is coming on the clouds of heaven on a white horse, exactly how He is described in Revelation. In fact this painting is triggered from Isaiah 14:5, Zechariah 14:5 but it combines descriptions from Matthew 24, from Isaiah 63, and from Revelation19 because they all describe the same scene of the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. There’s 2 angels blowing trumpets, as He comes this the trumpet the last… you talk about the last great shofar, this is it. The armies of heaven behind Him coming on the clouds it’s an exquisite painting. Yeshua is saying something because Revelation 19 says He’s got a sword in His mouth. Well you suppose He has a literal figure, actual metal sword coming out of His mouth? I don’t think so, I think it’s the word of God because the word of God is a sword of the Spirit. It’s described as a sword in many cases it divides between soul and spirit. So we pondered over this “What would He be saying, what words would be coming out of His mouth at that moment?” Then we discovered in Isaiah 63 that scripture, interpret scripture, and in Isaiah 63 there’s a dialogue and the narrator asks this question “Who is this coming from Bozrah and Edom with His robes dyed in red?” Describing the Messiah, you’ll see in this picture His robe is dyed in red. Then He answers…

Sid: Hold that thought.

Sid: Well my guest is I think red hot is an understatement for Hank Kunneman. Hank we’re talking about your brand new book just literally off the press “My Heart Cries Abba.” Abba is it an Aramaic word Hank?

Hank: Yeah, that’s Aramaic and also Greek also meaning “Daddy or Poppa.”

Sid: I love it and I also love when you say “Abba” out loud with your own mouth listening right now often He shows up as your heavenly Daddy. Tell me how you got that title.

Hank: I got that title after my own experiences not only what I went through even what we’ve been talking about all week about my father. Just feeling the need to be affirmed by God and as I kept calling Him Abba I kept feeling his love. But something happened, my son, who’s now 15, at the age of 10, 5 years ago was diagnosed type 1 diabetic it rocked my world. I was feeling like blaming myself maybe I didn’t pray enough, maybe you know I should have prayed for him more. And so I was really blaming myself and this is because of me, maybe I didn’t do something right, maybe I didn’t pray enough and I was really just calling to God. And I heard the Lord say to me very clearly “Love, on Abba, call on Abba.” And so you know what I did I just began all I could say after my son was diagnosed and we were watching a little kid you know have to give himself know shots because it’s different than Type II diabetes where there is diet this was insulin dependent. I’m watching my 10 year old having to give himself shots. I was so broken, then again I’m a faith man I believe in healing.   But the only thing I could do was run to Abba’s lap and let my heart cry out “Abba.” And now we’re seeing amazing things happen with my son, there’s a work of healing happening in his body and I believe it’s because as I call out and my heart cries out to Abba Abba comes. And so He’s intervening for my son’s life and so that’s how it came about.

Sid: And there’s actually a scripture Galatians 4:6 what does it say?

Hank: It says “The Spirit cries out “Abba Father.” Once we say “Jesus, come into my heart.” Immediately the Spirit, the Spirit of God, cries out to our spirit and reconnects us to our loving heavenly Father and cries out the name “Abba.”  

Sid: Tell me a little bit about your prayer life, you say that you go into your prayer closet so to speak and you crawl into Abba’s lap.

Hank: Yes I do. You know when Moses and God He said something to Moses He said “Meet me at a place called there.” And I have a place that I literally set a time and I set a place where I go and I meet God, I have this ottoman and literally I just lay overtop of the ottoman and I literally see myself being pulled and wooed by Abba in His arms and in His love. And I can literally feel His presence so strong that others that have walked into the room can feel it too.

Sid: I’ll tell you what I feel it now. What is Abba saying, I mean you’re a known prophet I mean some of the things that you’ve stated on our show and other shows about there would be snow in Atlanta and it snowed in Atlanta. And in strange places there would be in Dallas there would be an ice storm and these are kind of wild things you prophesied that came to pass. And even in the Middle East there was snow after you said it would happen in amazing places, but what is Abba saying to your heart right now for the future?

Hank: The first thing that we have to understand is “Arise shine the light has come the glory of the Lord has risen upon thee and darkness has covered the earth and gross darkness the people.” In other words there’s going to be culmination of yes doom and gloom so to speak evil, but God’s glory… one of the ways that Abba shows His love is to reveal His goodness. His goodness and His glory go together, we’re going to see political shakings, specifically watch the Middle East. There’s a dissatisfaction that is happening with the younger generation of those in the Middle East who have called on other gods that and they are finding out those gods do not exist. And there is coming a spiritual awakening that will begin to take place in the Middle East like we’ve never seen before especially among the young where they’re going to cry out and they’re going to say “Yeshua.” And you’re going to see more political world leaders that are going to begin to be removed by the hand of God. We need to watch Russia, we need to watch Syria, we need to watch Iran, because the Lord is not only putting His eye upon those nations He’s putting His hands upon those nations and there will be some political upheavals that God is going to deal with and He’s going to remove leaders. And you’re going to see this as a sign and it’s going to be what Isaiah 6 reveals. When the prophet said “That in the year Uzziah died I saw the Lord high and lifted up.” And as we see political leaders removed you’re going to see it mark a prophetic meaning, it’s just like you’re going to see some you’re going to see removed. It’s like some are going to be removed harshly, their end of days are not going to be good because of the way that they were harsh to the people that they ruled over. But it’s going to mark in those territories the revealing and the manifestation of Abba’s glory

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Joel Rosenberg. Now Joel is the best-selling author of “The Last Jihad.” And his latest book is called “The Last Days” he is an evangelical Christian from a Jewish heritage. He’s been involved with some of the top people in the world and God did this, you see God’s hand on him. He was a Senior Advisor in Israel to Netanyahu and he was Chief Speech Writer for Steve Forbes when he was running for President of the United States. He worked for Rush Limbaugh for a couple of years doing research. He was doing the Heritage Foundation and it goes on and on. But Joel where the rubber hits the road you’re just a man that loves God and you’ve got your family and you have 3 sons, how old are they?

Joel: Caleb is 9, Jacob is 7 and Jonah my little feisty one he’s 5.

Sid: And so your whole family starts praying about this book, the first thing that you needed as you were telling us is an agent and they’re praying what happened?

Joel: Right, right well after we prayed Jeremiah 33:3 for a story and God gave us an incredible story of “The Last Jihad.” Then we started praying we said “Kids we need to pray for an agent.” And they say “Okay, what’s an agent?” (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing) Child like faith.

Joel: Every night before we went to bed, the kids went to bed we would pray for an agent. Well, God brought along the guy who discovered Tom Clancey “Robert Gotleab the head of the number 1 thriller literary agency in America and then he assigned his Deputy Scot Miller. Both Jewish men, wonderful Jewish men and they got excited about “The Last Jihad” and so we told the kids “We got an agent, so now we need to pray for a publisher. And they said “Great, what is a publisher?” (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing)

Joel: So we started (Laughing) we explained what that was and we started praying. And the Lord brought in a publisher, Forbes Publisher, which is part of the family of St. Martin and Holdsbrink is the third largest publisher in the world a German conglomerate and we said “Kids the Lord has given us a publisher.” And then so we were just praying through the whole process because we wanted to write a book that would draw people in and share the gospel with them through a political thriller and we wanted the kids to be involved in that. Sid, we’re trying to teach our kids that we serve a prayer hearing and a prayer answering God, a wondering working God, a supernatural God, a God who does miracles and we want them to experience him the way that Lynn and I have experienced Him personally. And that’s what we’re trying to do and there’s nothing like the power of answered prayer to meet God. Well, they’ve just become little prayer warriors. Along the way Jacob our middle one, I don’t know maybe he’d been in the household of an author too long because he’s gotten too interested in the Amazon.com rankings and you know how every hour your book watch weight space on sale. So about 2 months before the book came out in November 02 “The Last Jihad” my first novel Jacob one day in the middle of prayer said “And Lord Jesus we pray that Daddy’s book would become #1 on Amazon.” Which we thought was sweet and humorous well, he just kept praying this and then his brothers got involved and they kept praying. So one day the book comes out and I’m on Sean Hannity’s Radio and TV Show and I sent him a copy to Rush Limbaugh, as you mentioned I worked for. Well Rush calls me about a week later and he said “Rosenberg I didn’t know that you could write.” (Laughing) I’m like “Thanks a lot you know.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Joel: “No, no I mean fiction this is really good I want you on my show tomorrow.” Now Rush you know has the President on sometimes and major leaders occasionally but certainly not former staff members. But long story short he was just so enthusiastic about “The Last Jihad.” And that night as we sat down for dinner as a family after that interview we checked the rankings and “The Last Jihad was at # 7 on Amazon. And Jacob prayed at dinner “Lord Jesus thank you so much that we’re at #7 but we just pray for #1 that’s what we’ve been praying for. So I thought “Okay, whatever.” At 9:00 it was time to put the kids into bed and we checked Amazon and “The Last Jihad” was at #4. Well, all three of them “Lord Jesus we’re so grateful that it’s number 4 but remember we’re just praying that it’d be #1 so lots of people would hear about Jesus. So I have to tell you Sid I thought that I needed to teach my kids you know “Let’s be grateful for what we have and not over reach.” But I honestly couldn’t think of a theology to tell my kids not to pray that the book whose purpose of which was to share the gospel shouldn’t be #1 so I didn’t think it was going to be.

Sid: Isn’t it amazing that here the devil is kicking up about the 10 Commandments and everyone is fighting there and while the devils doing all that kicking up God just slips a book like this in and makes it the best seller. It gets the gospel in a fashion that non-believers rave about.

Joel: It’s cool it’s really cool I’m just so grateful to be a part of it. What happened at 10:00 the book hit #2 but it was the top novel, the top book #1 was a financial book. So I said to Lynn my wife I said “Look this is a moment I really need to wake up the kids. So it hit #1, #1 novel and so we wake up the kids like “Kids your prayer has been answered “The Last Jihad” is the #1 novel and so they decided to come into my little home office to see it and they all pile on to my lap and they look at the computer screen and there like “Dad that’s not #1 that’s number 2 it’s the #1 novel, they drop down to their knees simultaneously and they say Lord we’re really grateful for 2 but we’re praying that you move the book up 1 and the financial book down.” (Laughing) And I thought “Alright, whatever boys this is really good let’s just be grateful. We pile them back into the bed and at midnight Sid the book hit #1.

Sid: Did you wake them up.

Joel: We woke them up, how could we not.

Sid: (Laughing)

Joel: I have to tell you felt convicted because I felt like it was selfish to pray that it would be #1 but the kids had believed what I had taught them which is we serve a prayer hearing and prayer….

Sid: Say Joel do you think you could hire your 3 sons out to pray for “It’s Supernatural Television, our television show?

Joel: Right, if we teach them that that we have not because we ask not, or we ask with impure motives that’s what we read in James and these kids have gotten it. And as a Dad that makes me more proud than the books success itself. That they see their God will hear them and answer their prayers.

Sid: Joel this book that we’ve been talking about you’re latest book “The Last Days” I understand how important it is for you to see your sons to grow up to be men of God, men that have a heart after God. But I really believe that your able to get the gospels in areas to people that will never walk into a church, that will never watch a Christian television show, never listen to a Christian radio show. I’m so excited about the potential of your books, have you actually started writing the next book?

Joel: I have I’m actually working on it right now in between the book tour here. And what I should mention with the last Jihad I ended up being on 160 radio and TV show between last year and Christmas. And had a chance to talk about my faith in Jesus with 20 million people in less than 60 days in about 45 days actually. And with this book already “The Last Days” 4 weeks on the New York Times Best Seller List, I’ve been on over 70 radio and TV shows, I guess by tomorrow it’ll be 85 shows will be added including your own. And we’ve reached over 10 million people and talked about Jesus on every single show. It’s been, it’s just been extraordinary when you ask God to use what little talent that you have that He can multiply it just the way the Lord multiplied those little fish and loaves of bread to be a blessing to so many people. We’re just astounded and very humbled and very grateful that the Lord would use us a little family, the little Rosenberg family who escaped out of Russia and God drew to the Messiah his heart and he’s using us to lift up His name and it’s just extraordinary and we’re also having a lot of fun. Let me kid you not to be involved in this…

Sid: I remember that 17 year old boy that was wrestling with God and was saying “God, it’s no joy, it’s no fun.” Look how God answered that prayer.

Joel: Well, that’s you know when we cry to the Lord and say “Lord show us that you’re real that he answers us that’s what he wants to ask. And He’s a prayer hearing and prayer answering God and He starts with that personal relationship with Him. Not in love with ministry, in love with Jesus. And I think that Jesus is jealous for His name. There’s a lot of cultural controversy right now, the Di Vinci Code is on the best selling list. That attacks…

Sid: All the New Age books.

Joel: Absolutely, got Mel Gibson’s movie about Jesus coming out next year, you got my book “The Last Days” on the New York Times List. There’s something going on, I think Jesus is jealous for His name and He’s drawing Jewish and non-Jewish people to Himself as you say into the Mishpochah family of God.

Sid: Joel we’re slipping out of time I thank you so much for being my guest.

Sid: I picked up my guest Dr. Heidi Baker. She’s at the airport in Johannesburg so you’ll hear all sorts of sounds going on. But for those that aren’t familiar with Dr. Heidi Baker she is equivalent to a Full Gospel Mother Theresa. In fact Heidi I have an idea that when you hear the story about what you did you find it hard to believe. I’m going to take you back to 19 years 1996 you and your husband are burned out from being missionaries. You gave it everything you had but it just wasn’t working. And so you come back you go to a meeting in Canada at the Toronto Airport Church and a mutual friend of ours Randy Clark is speaking; what happened?

Heidi: Oh, it was so amazing what happened the first time I was there Randy wasn’t there but I was just tired and wanted to quit and the beautiful thing is God just healed me I had double pneumonia and He healed me supernatural miracle. And I went forward and then I feel out in the Spirit and I saw Yeshua and I saw all of the beautiful children. And I said “Oh, no (I cried the wrong thing) no there’s too many I was tired. But I saw His eyes, I saw His beautiful, beautiful eyes. And when I saw His eyes that was enough for me the beauty of His eyes and I saw 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of children. And Jesus said “I died that there would always be enough.” And when He said that everything changed, and He took a piece of His body and He broke it and He said “Feed it to the children.” And I did that and I just went on for hours just feeding the children and He said “There’s always enough because I died.” And then I took this beautiful, powerful beautiful cup that He handed me and He said “That cup was a cup of suffering and a cup of joy.” And without speaking He asked “If I would drink it?” And I just drank it, I drunk the cup of suffering and joy. Then and then and then He said “Give it to the children.” And I wondered how I could give children a cup like that but I did, I did give it to the children and I kept giving it and giving it and giving it to the children. And then He said again the second time “I died that there would always be enough.” And that’s what changed my life and that happened in Canada in 1996.

Sid: Okay and history reveals that you went to Mozambique, Africa and you started over 10,000 churches. And this is not just in Mozambique other parts of the world. But what happened to Heidi is the power of God came on her. And Heidi I understand that for 7 days and 7 nights the power of God was so strong on you you couldn’t walk, you couldn’t talk, you couldn’t move by yourself. Tell me what was going on.

Heidi: Yes, first I want to clarified that our movement our movement has started 10,000 churches Rolland and I haven’t done it by ourself. We have 100’s and 1000’s of national workers and we’re all going out and just sharing the gospel. That’s the first thing that I just want to clarify our movement together we just move and God’s been multiplying His church. But the thing that happened on those 7 days really changed my life because I was so hungry for God I was so desperate that in the middle of Randy’s sermon this was the second time I was there in Canada. In the middle of his sermon I ran up, and that not like me in the natural I wouldn’t do something like that, I would just be quiet, I would sit on the side, I wouldn’t just run up and disturb and I ran up and I just lifted my hands up at the altar right in the middle of his sermon. And he said “God wants to know do you want the nation of Mozambique?” And then He said “The blind will see, the cripple will walk, the deaf will hear, the poor will hear the good news, the dead will be raised.” And I just started screaming “Yes!” And I didn’t think about it because if I’d have thought about it I am sure that I would have been a little more hesitant. I just cried out “Yes!” And then the power of God just hit me and I ended up being just a heavy glory of God falling on me, and I was unable to walk in my own power. That lasted 7 days and 7 nights. My husband had to carry me into the church and carry me out, other people would help him. They would pick me up in the morning in a van and half to carry me and lay me on the altar again. And Jesus spoke to me and He said “You can do nothing without Me.” That I thought I knew but when you cannot move from the neck down you cannot move at all you can’t even lift up your toes, you can’t even lift up your hands, that fact that you can do nothing without Yeshua, nothing without Him it really really stays in your heart.

Sid: Now you had no grid for this, you had no paradigm for being totally surrendered to God like that 7 days 24 hours a day. Did you think maybe you were dying?

Heidi: Yeah, I was scared, it was scary, it was holy, it was beautiful, it was powerful, it was scary it really was. I didn’t know if I’d ever walk again, I didn’t know. But I was so undone by the love of God and what I was feeling in His presence and what the Lord said to me I just didn’t… I was so yielded I didn’t mind. I said “Whatever Lord I just want to be with you” (Laughing) but it was scary, it was.

Sid: Now was this the time that God said to you you would care for 1 million children?

Heidi: No, no I didn’t hear that until much later it’s a good thing.

Sid: (Laughing)

Heidi: No, no I didn’t hear that until years later. No, he just showed me Himself and…

Sid: Okay you have this marvelous prophecy from a person that hears from God, Randy Clark. And he say’s “The deaf will hear, the blind will see, the dead will be raised.” You get to Mozambique did you see many miracles?

Heidi: Not anything, every got worse it lasted about a year, we lost every building we had. I prayed for blind people all of the time, nobody saw, nobody heard, there were no miracles at all. But I just kept on believing.

Sid: Wait a second Heidi, you kept on believing but between you and me weren’t you a little discouraged?

Heidi: Um, I was a little bit for a few times for the first time I prayed for the blind I’m thinking they see and nobody saw. And then the Lord said “You love them and if you lead them to me you haven’t failed.” And He said “It’s My job that came from the Father my little life to love the one in front of me and it’s His job to heal.” So when God showed me that I thought, “Well, I’ve led every single one of these blind and deaf and crippled people to the Lord, I lead them all to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.” So in that sense it’s not a failure. (With a laugh.)

Sid: Tell me the first blind person that was able to see.

Heidi: It was in central Mozambique after a year of praying for the blind with not even a little glimmer of light nothing. And here comes another one and they’re in Mozambique, where we’ve lived for 20 years. They always come the same the person in rags and somebody is leading them with a stick. So there’s this little boy leading an old skinny woman with a stick and she came into our little mud hut church. And here she comes and I started weeping I said “God, could it be this time, could it just be this time please, could it be this time and I just held her and wept.” And she fell in the Spirit she fell out in the Spirit and right before my eyes and everybody in that little mud hut her eyes turned white, gray, brown.”

Sid: Hm.

Heidi: I was more surprised and shocked than anybody! I was like this really happened I was so excited, and she saw. And I asked her for some reason I asked her her name and her name was Momma Ida. Which is my name everyone in Mozambique calls me Momma Ida. So she had my name and it was the first time I’d ever seen God open blind eyes.

Sid: Now was the second any different?

Heidi: Yes, it was very interesting because I was thinking “Wow maybe this gift is really happening now and I’m going to keep seeing it.” And so when I got to the gas station to put diesel in my land rover there was a man there who was blind and he had a big tumor on his head and I prayed for him and this was day two. I prayed for him and he didn’t see anything. He saw absolutely nothing I lead him to the Lord, I lead his son to the Lord who was pushing him in a wheelchair, he was crippled, he had a tumor, he was crippled, he was blind. And the Lord very clearly said “Call Dr. Bob, call Dr. Bob.” So I called my friend Dr. Bob from New York and I said “Would you be willing to come to Mozambique and cut a tumor off this man’s head?” And Dr. Bob as fast as he could come which is a few weeks later came and he cut the tumor off of this man’s head and it was a miracle too.” And the next day, day 2 the same day as the gas station day I prayed for a woman because they heard about the other woman who got healed and I prayed for this woman in mud hut in Dawn Dew Mozambique. And I laid hands on her and I just started crying out to her if she could see, can you see, she started screaming “You’re wearing a black shirt.” And it turned out that she had gone blind at 8 years old and she knew her colors.

Sid: Wow!

Heidi: My friend was with my my German friend and she was very strict and she said “Well, you don’t know if she’s really seeing because I told her to go outside and to the duck.” But she said “The ducks are making noise, that’s not a good test.” And I remember it really because I said “Go to the bucket then.” And she saw the bucket and she went straight to it and all of the villagers started running out screaming and yelling and laughing “Momma Ida can see, I started crying I was undone, I was so excited 2 people in 2 days could see.” Both of them had my name, I knew God…

Sid: Isn’t that amazing I mean I don’t think people caught that they call you in Mozambique Momma Ida and the 2 blind people that got their sight after a year of just loving people both had the same name that you had. I think God’s trying to show you something. (Laughing)

Heidi: (Laughing) Yep. And I do know what it was I was just so excited, I didn’t know what he was saying I just knew these 2 with one man in between that didn’t have a miracle but he did have a medical miracles later with a friend that gave him a free surgery. He loves Jesus to this day he’s in the church. But the day 3 then I was when to Shamoyah, Mozambique and we were in this old dilapidated building we were renting to have a meeting. And I was so excited about what had happened to these 2 blind ladies who had my name I just cried out from the front. I had the microphone and I said “Is anybody blind, is anybody blind?” And one woman came up with another little boy leading her by a stick and here she came and I was so excited. I hadn’t even preached, I hadn’t even ministered the word yet, I just laid hands on the this lady and again in shredded rags and skinny and old and I laid hands on her and she fell out in front of me just fell down. And her eyes in front of me, in front of everybody in Shamoyah everybody in the building her eyes went white gray, brown. And I thought I have to ask her no kidding I’ve got my German friend next to me she’s thinking “This is too much.” She’s just shocked, I’m shocked, everybody’s shocked; we’ve never saw God open blind eyes and suddenly there’s 3 in 3 days and I say “Okay, okay what’s your name, what’s your name?” And she cries out Momma, Ida – no joke! (Laughing)

Sid: Now, that’s impossible I mean a blind person seeing is impossible, having the 3 that you pray for having the same name as you that’s impossible. But guess what you needed to have your faith grow for all that God’s called you to do and God was sure doing that.

Heidi: Yes (Laughing) I was in shock, my German friend she’s such a straight, straight woman she said “That’s not possible your name can’t be Momma Ida.” And she called for the family and she said “We need to know her real name, what’s her real name?” And the family was there and the family said “Her name is Momma Ida,” like what’s your problem?” They didn’t know about the other 2 and then they started throwing her up in that air this old woman who can now see with brown eyes now they started throwing her in the air and saying “Momma Ida can see, Momma Ida can see!” And they’re dancing and tossing this lady in the air “Momma Ida can see!” I’ll never forget it as long as I live.

Sid: You know Heidi you make the statement “If you’re dream doesn’t seem impossible it’s probably not from God.” Well, that means… I mean everything you do that I’m reading about is in the impossible level. (Laughing)

Heidi: He’s the God of the impossible!

Sid: Heidi, tell me about the time that you had a vision that you would take care of 1 million children.

Heidi: Yes! Certainly not by myself (Laughing) but I’m a catalyst, I’m a catalyst. Yes we want to care for a million children and we want to care for them in homes, we want to educate each one and lead them to the Lord. And see that they’re fed every day and they have uniforms and they’re in school and they love Jesus…

Sid: But Heidi tell, Heidi tell me about the vision you had.

Heidi: Well, I guess I started hearing a lot of people would prophecy over me whenever I tell, and they say “You’re visions too small, you’re visions too small.” So I asked God for a vision and I felt like He said “A million children in your lifetime would be cared for through our movement.” And I heard Him and I thought it was just too much to even, how could I even fathom that but I really feel like He said it. So and then of course more prophets came to me and said “You’re visions too small, you’re visions too small” but for now it’s a good little start we’ll just keep going with that for now.

Sid: Now of course you’re at the airport leaving from Johannesburg, Africa that’s why we hear all of this noise going on behind you. But when I think about you I think about a woman living in the dirt surrounded with babies and children. How many do you and Rolland personally take care of?

Heidi: Well, our movement feeding 12,000 a day.

Sid: Wow.

Heidi: And we believe everybody, everyone of us all of our pastors are to take care of at least 1 orphan, at least 1 child that has nobody. So my husband and I we raised 15 African children and now we’re raising another 15.

Sid: You know Heidi with your busy schedule and everything I don’t know how you and Rolland survived having personally adopting 15 and then another 15. But there is so many miracles that go on with you but tell me about food miracles.

Heidi: Okay, but first I want to clarify we don’t have legal documents for the children we just bring them in and care for them and they grow up and they call us mom and dad. (Laughing) I’ll just clarify that it’s a lot they’re beautiful kids and we love all of the kids too so we just want to keep on loving them. Food miracles they’re pretty wonderful.

Sid: Tell me your favorite one.

Heidi: My favorite food miracle – boy that’s a hard one. I’ll probably say just because my attitude wasn’t so good and God over ridded my attitude I want to talk about children multiplying. (Laughing)

Sid: Now I’ve heard about bread multiplying but I’ve never heard about chicken multiplying.

Heidi: (Laughing) I had never heard about it either, but this is a powerful thing that happened it was a few years back. And it’s kind of funny story because I drove up to our village of Joy where we were having our graduation for our Bible College. We also have a Ministry Mission School where people come from other countries to be trained in missions. So they were there and we had pastors and we had ministers coming to graduate, and my children ran up to me and the said “Momma the foreigners and the pastors ate all of the chicken, we don’t have any chicken.” Back then we only had chicken a couple of times a year so the kids had been anticipating this chicken for probably 24 hours because it takes a long time to cook because we have to feed just on our base 5,000 people per day. So these children are smelling this chicken and their very excited and then the pastors and foreigners had eaten it all and the children most of the kids hadn’t had any chicken. So I was a little bit upset and I was thinking “That’s not nice, why don’t they think of the kids” and my attitude wasn’t perfect at all. I marched into the kitchen and then I said to the cooks are you hiding any chicken, are you hiding any?” And I forgot the English word batah or robe like there little, their robes they wear they were hiding some chicken behind their backs and I said “Please give me that chicken and we’re putting it all in a box.” And I called all of the children and I said “You all sit down and I asked them “Do you have any rice left?” Because sometimes we have some rice left over, we have massive pots of rice.” And they said “No, all of the rice is gone, it’s all gone.” And I said “Then what about bread?” They said “Yes, but it’s for tomorrow morning.” And I was still a little frustrated that pastors and foreigners had eaten all of the chicken so I said “Well, at least the breads here we’re not having it in the morning we’re going to have it now.” I said “I’ll pass out the chicken and you pass out the bread.” And I mean there were these children there and some widows were in the back. And I started passing out this chicken out of one little box like a Refresco box like a little box you put Refresco drinks in. And I was passing it out one piece at a time, one piece at a time I wasn’t looking in the box just a little box with all of these 100’s of kids and people were in there and it just kept…

Sid: Well would you say that the size of the box would hold about 3 or 4 pieces of chicken max?

Heidi: No, you know those kind of boxes if you had 24 Coca-Cola?

Sid: Yeah, right okay.

Heidi: Put 24.

Sid: Like a case for 24 Coca-Cola, okay.

Heidi: Like a case of Coca-Colas.

Sid: Right.

Heidi: That’s the size of the box, I didn’t count the chicken I just…

Sid: Okay, but about how many people were eating?

Heidi: I didn’t count how many people were eating just row after, row of benches. No way could that box of chicken feed even a 10^th of those people, but I was just desperate. My children were hungry they were crying, they were pulling on my copalona I just said “God, please just do something?” And I mean the last piece of chicken I pulled out of the box was the last old lady and she got it just greasy pieces of chicken. And God multiplied those greasy pieces of chicken (Laughing) and he fed everybody in our refitorium, in our dining hall He just fed them all.

Sid: Has this happened often Heidi food being multiplied?

Heidi: You know we… anytime we don’t have money, or we don’t have food, or it’s not there or the Lord didn’t provide it through our farm if we’re in a situation where it’s a massive need and we give everything we have and we’re like little movement we’re like little boy with the bread of the loafs we just give everything that God puts in our hands. Now we’d just given our little lunch and if need be and there’s not enough of what we have in the natural then God makes more, He just does it.

Sid: You know I’ve wondered this as the chicken or the bread or whatever food is being multiplied, do you ever look down and see if a materializes before you or are just too busy giving?

Heidi: Your too busy giving I never looked down at it I never saw it multiply it just never ran out. I never saw it making more in front of my eyes I just kept looking at the one in front of me and I tell my people to do the same. My husband just flown to Malawi, there’s an amazing miracle he’s doing a meeting there with all of our national leaders and really people desperately poor in Bangula, Malawi. With the praise and over there we always tell our team you know “There’s always enough because Jesus died, there’s always enough He rose from the dead.” And one time we’ve often had famines I Malawi and northern Mozambique, central Mozambique and we feed people. And we bring in containers of food. This precious missionary Joe Morrison and his wife Moe they were down to their last hundred or so of bags of beans in the container and there were way more people that need to be feed we’re talking you know over 10,000 people desperate there ready to die. And Moe said “The Lord told Heidi and Roland we’re going to believe the same thing ‘There’s always enough because He died.’” So he told one of our national leaders “You just go ahead and just give them all out because today those people are standing in front of us today is today. And this is the craziest story really, really crazy story and it’s really beautiful. They emptied the container of all of the beans they gave out everything they had and the next day when they opened the container ir was full of beans. I don’t know how I don’t know what happened I just say “Thank You God,” isn’t that awesome.

Sid: I mean the things that you describe are equivalent to the miracles we read about in the New Testament. But I have to ask you I want you to explain to those listening, and to me too, about the secret place that you go to and the importance of the secret place.

Heidi: Well, if your not intimate with Yeshua you’re not intimate with Jesus it says “You can do nothing; absolutely nothing; by nothing He means nothing.” I don’t go in to the secret place and worship Him and love Him and bless Him so that I will see Him do miracles, that is not my point for being with Him. My points never is the miracles, Rowland’s points never; our movements never focused in the miracles. Our movement and all of us are focused on on His face. We’re in love with Him, I’m in love with Jesus; I’m passionately completely in love with Him. He’s my everything, I love Him more than life. That’s why it’s easy to say I’ll give my life because He’s my everything. I’ve seen His eyes and I know His heart. So I go into the secret place just to be with Him; to be with Jesus.

Sid: Heidi can you give our listeners some clues, some tips on how to develop this intimacy with God. I mean it comes natural for you, it comes easy for you but if you lived in the United States like we do it’s just not so easy, give us some tips. (Laughing)

Heidi: (Giggles) Well, you know the more you spend time with Jesus the more you yield your life to Holy Spirit and you let Daddy God just love you with His lavish love the more you just fall in love with Him. And the other key for me is everyday I’m fully present with Him. I don’t you know just say “Hi God how are you doing I’m off to do my stuff.” I’m present with Him I spend time with Him and I engage with Him. Any meeting where I’m speaking I’m fully engaging in worshiping Him and loving Him. And then I’m fully engaged with whose ever in front of me. So I’m fully pressing into Holy Spirit. And when I step out and I see the one in front of me then I want to be with them and I’m asking Holy Spirit, I’m asking Jesus about them. And I so because I’m stopping for the one in front of me everyday like yesterday my day started I was with the governor of Pemba, Mozambique, so I was fully present with the governor. I was present with him in his office with his cabinet in all of the environment of being with the governor. And then I was going to visit a little village where they built me a mud hut and I’m fully, I’m getting there on our boat and I’m with my children and we’re going to see our village friends and just spend time discipling them and loving them. And when I get there I’m fully present with each one in front of me. And I’m asking Jesus for what He has for them, I’m asking the Lord in intercession before I even go to the governor “What is it Lord? What are you asking, how can I connect, what are you saying?” And as I’m connecting with the Lord I’m connecting with His love then I feel like give me enough love for the one in front of me. So my secret is the secret place and my secret is staying poor in spirit. I am a desperate little woman, I’m desperate little woman, I’m desperate for God

Sid: You use the term lavish love, what does that mean to you?

Heidi: (Chuckling) Yeah.

Sid: What does that mean?

Heidi: Yeah, it says in 1^st John “Behold the lavish love the Father has lavished on you that we should become the children of God.” And that is who we are, and the world doesn’t know. The world doesn’t understand and we are the children of God. And that’s lavish love that Daddy God would call His only begotten Son to come down here and to be born on this earth in Israel, to be born on this earth and come like a baby and be desperate and be nursed at his mother’s breast. That He would send His son into this crazy world and say “I love you, lavishly. I love you so much with everything within Me I love you. Human beings I love you so in love with you I sent My Son to die for you, I’m going to send Him to live for you to show you what it looks like to love. And I’m going to send Him to die for you to pay for your sins.” I mean what kind of love is that, what kind of God would so pour out everything upon us that He would give His own Son it’s so lavish, it’s so extravagant, it’s just so glorious. Our only response to that kind of love is “Here am I Lord take me, send me, send me Daddy God, send me Jesus, send me Holy Spirit here I am; I just want to bring You Jesus, I want to bring You Yeshua the reward of Your suffering; I want to connect each one in this world with the love of the Father and the lavish love of the Father that takes away our orphan spirit.” You see God doesn’t just call people children that I have worked with that have lost their moms and dad’s and children in rags and children in bloated bellies He’s not just after them only. He’s after every human being on the planet, every human being on the planet is created in the image of God. If they don’t know Yeshua, they don’t know Jesus they’re an orphan, they’re an orphan. And the lavish love of the Father calls back through us His little people, His little lovers, His little children. We each one of us every day stop for the one, stop for the one, and call them to the Father, call them into the home of the Father. That’s what we’re all created for.

Sid: Heidi, tell me how this plays out with gangs.

Heidi: How it plays out with gangs, well I started on the street with gangs, I worked with gangs in Hong Kong and gangs in London and gangs in Mozambique. It works out the same with gangs as it works with Ivy Leaguers. It works out the same with gangs as it works out with children in shredded rags, it works out with gangs the same way it works out with kings in palaces. It’s always always taking the love that Father put on you, walking in there see perfect love cast out fear. The more you understand who you are because Daddy God loves you you’re not afraid to die because you know where you’re going so how could you be afraid to die. So you’re already set there, so you say “Come on Daddy God I want to step on your feet where are we going today?” If we’re going in the middle of a gang I’ll tell you a story it’ll make it a little clearer. One day I was in the street in Mozambique and there was a gang and they were fighting they had knives and they had guns and I knew the Lord told me “Just go right in the middle of them while they’re fighting.” And I went right in the middle of them and I said….

Sid: Heidi, Heidi you’re just a little woman how do you walk in the middle of people fighting with knives, are you a little mashuga that’s a Hebrew word for crazy? (Laughing)

Heidi: (Laughing)Absolutely, I lost my mind to gain His I’m crazy for Him. And I heard Him say “Go in the middle of them.” I did I went right in the middle and I said “You boys stop it right now!” And they dropped their knives and their guns right in front of me and they said “Sorry, Momma.” That’s what they said “Sorry Momma” and they stopped fighting. (Laughing) See the love casts out fear. I’m also not very threatening looking. I’m about 5’3” I’m a little woman I just like to hug people, I just like to love on people so you know what could they do, what could those boy do? (Laughing)

Sid: Tell me about the time that the police arrested you.

Heidi: Oh, there have been a few times.

Sid: Tell me one.

Heidi: Which one would you like?

Sid: The one where men with guns and they were going to take you to jail.

Heidi: Oh, they did take me to jail. (Laughing) I was just down the street you know loving on the girls that are selling their bodies and loving on the street kids and I always bring them home. Back then we didn’t have laws that you couldn’t bring them home; so we could just go and fill up our truck with children that were sleeping on the streets and abandoned and in little gangs. Now we have to work through the government social welfare and everything changed. But back then for about 10 years we could just bring children home. So that’s what I did I’d just fill up my truck every week with children in it and give them a home. And so I was just out there with some of my little girls and we were sharing the gospel with the older girls and some are younger girls 10, 11, 12 year old girls that were selling their bodies so they could eat. We’re sharing with the street kids and feeding them, soup and bread and just loving on these kids. And a truck pulled up with some police and they pointed AK-47 rifles you know those machine guns you know just pointed them at my head. And my little girls I had I can’t remember maybe 8 girls with me, usually bring about 8 so that we can fit more in our Land Rover our truck to come home. And so we were there and the policeman stuck these machine guns at my head and they said “Momma Ida, get in the truck!” And I said “I’m not going in your truck.” They said “You get in our truck right now we’re taking you to jail.” And they screamed at me and pointed the machine gun to my head and I burst out laughing, I burst out laughing which they did not appreciate.

Sid: Hm.

Heidi: But imagine this dear Brother Sid, think of this I’m there on the street, I’m not a tall woman, I’m not a big woman I’m walking down the street spending time with street children and I got about 8 girls who already live with me with me this is my night with the girls. One week I take the boys, one week I take the girls. Imagine this sight of a little 4 x 4 truck with policeman sticking machine guns at my head. It was hilarious I thought “How many of you does it take to scare me or threaten me, I’m a little woman here with my girls.” And it just struck me as funny and I just laughed my little head off and they said “You get in this truck right now.” And my girls started crying, they said “You stop that!” And they were crying and they were very nervous, police use to shoot at us you know and they’d shoot up in the air to scare us. The girls were scared and I said “Listen Sirs I will walk to the Police Station, but I will not getting in your truck because I won’t fit in your truck with all of my girls and you’re scaring them.” So we started walking to the police station and singing songs (African language songs) and we started singing these songs about how good God is and how beautiful and come Holy Spirit. And I got to that police station and they grabbed me roughly and they threw me in a room and my little girls were left outside, no room, no ride home, there just left outside. All of the street kids and some of the gang leaders and some of these girls that are selling themselves they all of them 100’s of them they came outside of the jail and they started screaming “Let Momma go!”

Sid: (Laughing) I could picture that.

Heidi: (Laughing) That’s what they did I tell the Police Chief he said “You go ahead, you go ahead we don’t know why these kids are saying you’re their Momma. I said “Because I am their Momma and I love them.” And they said “Well, you just go and come back tomorrow morning at 8:00 and that’s what happened. I went back at 8:00 and long story short I was a little early and the Holy Spirit told me to wait and I went in at exactly 8:00 Police Chief had gone on another trip. So he was gone and a man names Noah, a man named Noah said he was the one interviewing me. He said “We’re putting you in jail you can’t be on the street we’ll be responsible when you’re killed and we’ll be in trouble with the embassy.” And I just laughed, I said “Noah can I just talk with you about your name?” And Holy Spirit dropped in on that meeting, Holy Spirit just came into the policeman’s office and Holy Spirit convicted him of a sin, we were having floods at that time. And I told him about his name and what it meant and who he was and I said “Noah, you’re not going to put me in jail you’re going to give me a document allowing me and all of our children to come to the jail and share the gospel.” And you know what?

Sid: What?

Heidi: That’s exactly what happened. Since then we’ve been sharing the gospels in jails all over Mozambique; we even have a Bible College in jail in Pemba, Mozambique. We have a Bible College in Neasicobodellgado a Bible College, a Bible College in prison come on Jesus. (Laughing)

Sid: You know this lavish love really works doesn’t it Heidi. (Laughing)

Heidi: (Laughing) Yes, it’s God’s love He’s beautiful.

Sid: Now I want to tell everyone that’s been listening to us and we started out you were in the Johannesburg Airport so I pray you kept with us listening to us. But Heidi has a brand new book “Birthing the Miraculous.” And this is what I’ll tell you it’ll cut years off of your walk with the Lord, it’ll speed it up to get to the point because Jesus is coming back soon that’s what He told me in the dream. He said “I’m coming back soon.” And as a result of that you don’t have those years to wander in a circle like my relatives did in 40 years in the desert. God wants to sped things up for you and that’s what this book “Birthing the Miraculous” is going to do. Then I love your band new devotional book it’s called “Wreckless Devotion” and in this book it’s 365 days into the heart of this extravagant lavish radical love that Heidi’s been talking about each day you’re going to have a devotional. And then a 2 CD set it’s a 2 CD set and I’ll tell you I listen to these 2 CD’s and it will… Heidi likes to use the a phrase “It’ll wreck you.” It will wreck you but it will make you normal. Normal as defined by the Bible… But you know Heidi when you talk about lavish love I have to believe that’s what’s pushing me to what we do in Israel. In Israel most people don’t know this we are on 28 times a week on secular and Christian television in Israel right now as they’re listening to us. I mean it’s beyond my comprehension. And the only way that we can get on TV like that is Number 1: It has to be God. (Laughing) Heidi says it’s got to be so big you can’t do yourself. And Number 2: Timing is everything; this is God’s moment for Israel, this is God’s moment to remove the spiritual scales from the eyes of 1000’s multitudes of Jewish people. And we also have the program for the Arab countries, were in countries like Afghanistan, Iran, (Laughing) Iraq, Ukraine and it’s wild what God has done with our ministry. And when you purchase a product or give a gift for a product you’ve not just going to a computer place and buying a book or a bookstore. No, your money is being planted and reaching souls. And Heidi would say what God says “He who wins souls is wise.” And I’m going to tell you something that at this moment at history, I don’t understand it totally Paul went a little… was besides himself when in the book of Ephesians he’s talking about the One New Man he says the whole reason that Jesus came was to breakdown this separation between Jews and Gentiles. And that’s exactly what He’s doing right now. But it’s not an ecumenical thing it’s one in Messiah world of difference. And so Heidi you have a great love for Israel, tell me a little bit about that.

Heidi: (Laughing) Well I absolutely am undone with Israel and our whole movement all of our churches. We pray for Israel every day. I had a vision of fire from South Africa all the way into Jerusalem. And our movement we say “Ah tae Jerusalem, Ah tae Jerusalem” we pray in all of our little churches, all of our big churches, in all of our churches every day we pray for Israel. We pray for the people, I had a vision behind the veil in Israel I was at a prayer gathering and the Lord said “Just stay hidden behind this veil.” I stood and I listened to the Lord I didn’t want to speak, I didn’t want to get up I just stayed behind the veil and I just started weeping and weeping when the Lord asked me a question. He said… first He thanked me, which blew my mind when you hear God thank you for something like “How on earth could that happen?” but He did. The Father said “Thank you for taking in all of the orphan children, thank you for feeding them, and clothing them.” And I mean I was sobbing, how could God say thank you to a little person that just wrecked me I was sobbing my guts out. And then He said “How would you feel if Your own natural born children Elisha and Crystaline my 2 toe headed blonde children. He said “How would you feel if they did not know me?” And I said “I couldn’t stand it, I couldn’t… if my own natural born children didn’t know You Jesus, if they didn’t know You Father, if they didn’t know You Holy Spirit, I don’t know what I’d do I’d do anything. If I had to throw myself in front of a bus to save them I would do it, I would do anything for them. I would go anywhere, I would do anything, I couldn’t stand it” I said “I couldn’t survive if my children, my own children didn’t love You.” He said “That’s how I feel about My lost children, My lost children in Israel that’s how I feel about my lost children in Israel.” And He broke my heart for the lost Israeli bride, He broke my heart. I must have been 8 – 10 hours on my face just interceding, I groaned with deep deep groaning, and I finally understood in a way that I never ever could. God, Daddy God’s heart for His lost children in Israel, so I’m with you dear Brother Sid, I’m with you where our movements with you we’re crying out for the lost children in Israel to come home to the Father.

Sid: You know what I believe that if you pray a prayer right now for people to have the heart that you have for the Jew in Israel and pray for the salvation of Israel right now would you do that Heidi?

Heidi: Yes, yes Lord (Praying in the Spirit) Come precious God; Lord God would You just show, Daddy God would You show believers all over the planet who who who the Jewish people are God. Would You wake them up, would You take the scales off of believers, believers Christians all over the world? Would You take the scales off of their eyes? Would You show them what the Jewish people need You? Would You show them what Israeli children need, You God. Would You show them Daddy God Yeshua? You would just show them who these people are, who these children are. Your children, Your children Your chosen people the ones You chose Lord, the ones You chose Lord, the ones You picked Lord, the ones Your picked, the ones You love God. Would You show them Lord, would You show them what a privilege it is to be grafted in, may they never forget the natural born. May they never forget the Jewish people God, may they see them how you see them God. I pray for revelation Lord, revelation of Your heart for the Jewish people Lord, for Your people that already know You Jesus let them know those in Israel that don’t know You. And God I cry out God, I cry out for the people of Israel, I cry out for You lost sons and daughters. God I cry out Daddy God, I cry out Yeshua God bring them home to the Father, bring them home to the Father let them know the beauty of Your love God. Don’t let them perish God, don’t let them perish without knowing Yeshua, without knowing their Messiah. Holy Spirit would You flood Israel God, would You wake them up and shake them up God even through the turmoil Lord let their blind eyes be opened God. May their eyes be opened Lord, protect them Lord from the missiles and the bombs, protect Lord from the enemy, protect them from everyone that would try to take away that which is their birthright God, their land Lord. Their land Lord their birth right God, their nation God. Rise up a holy fire Lord like it says in Zechariah You said Lord, Your said Lord we call upon what You said “I’d be a wall of fire around and about Jerusalem says the Lord and the glory within. (Praying in the Spirit). We cry for the wall of fire to rise up around Jerusalem, (Praying in the Spirit) we cry out for the wall of fire around about Israel God, we cry out for the glory within her Lord. Reveal Yourself, reveal Yourself use Your people God, use Your people, use Your believers in the land to rise up and love like You love God. And to reach out, reach out and move in signs and wonders and radical love. Thank You Yeshua HaMasheach glorify Your Name, we glorify Your name. Thank You Jesus! Thank You Jesus.

Sid: Psalm 122:6 says “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem thou shall prosper that love thee.” Isn’t that amazing Heidi! God says “If you will pray for the peace and the only peace in Jerusalem will not be what the world is orchestrating it will only be the Sar Shalom the Prince of Peace Yeshua Ha Meshach Tsidkenu Jesus the Messiah our righteousness.