Sid: My guest by way of telephone is a Jewish believer in the Messiah his name is Louis Sheldon. You’re probably familiar with him because he’s the chairman of Traditional Values Coalition. He has a new book that is a must read for anyone that considers themselves a real Christian. The name of the book is called “The Agenda” subtitled “The Homosexual Plan to Change America.” I tell you Mishpochah according to what I see, according to what I read, according to what I’ve seen in this book the agenda we are dangerously close to becoming Sodom and Gomorrah. I have heard for years, Louis Sheldon, that just the last thing that happens before a great society crumbles is its morality crumbles. Is that true?

Louis: Oh that’s very true. There was a scientific study done by a non-Christian whose name was J. D. Unwin he wrote a book called “Sex and Culture.” In his book he reports he went around the world for 3 years. He was a full professor of anthropology at the University of Oxford in Oxford, England. He studied all of the cultures in what we refer to as little city states that rose flourished for a while, and then diminished and faded. The final thing that finished them off was when they went into homosexuality.

Sid: You know what these cultures did not have the mass media that we have today. They didn’t have movies, they didn’t have television they didn’t have internet, and I have to tell you it’s getting dangerous for me to channel surf because I can’t believe what I’m seeing. Now that there’s going to be an entire network devoted to homosexuality… what about the internet, is there much on the internet that can hurt our children?

Louis: Oh there’s plenty on the internet! As a Christian lobbyist in Washington D.C. we passed the V-chip bill which would have prevented any young person from getting on the internet pornography, or obscenity, or having received it in an email. Well do you know the Supreme Court of the United States overturned the V-chip bill and said “That we were denying access of liberty, of education, and all of those other cliché words they use to young children.” So now young children can go into a public library, sit down on the internet and bring up pornography and obscenity.

Sid: You know speaking of the Supreme Court many feel there will be 2 new justices, and perhaps 3 new justices in the Bush administration. How important is for someone with good moral fiber to be a justice?

Louis: Well it’s very important for someone who’s going to serve on the Supreme Court to have a clear understanding and to have moral judgment, and to know the difference, the long-term difference, between good and evil, between right and wrong, between what is morally right, and what is morally wrong. Very clearly our founding fathers did not want the Constitution to be treated as a springboard. For instance, just recently the Supreme Court said in the Kelo case of New London, Connecticut where is there was an x number of amount of homes that they wanted to demolish to build a larger manufacturing building for pharmaceutical people “We will take your land.” The way they justified it through eminent domain was the Supreme Court said “Well the Constitution says only your land can be taken from you if it’s for public use.” That means a freeway, a highway, a fire station something that the whole public benefits from, and they changed that word “public use” to “public benefit” meaning economic development.

Sid: So in other words they can take your homes because they want to build an apartment building?

Louis: That is correct!

Sid: That’s pretty scary.

Louis: Yes. That’s why it’s so important for a justice, to go back to your question, a justice understands what is morally right. This dear lady that lived in her home her name was Kelo and that’s why she brought the lawsuit, but she lost it at the Supreme Court. So we must have a Supreme Court person that totally is not an activist and has a political agenda.

Sid: Okay, here’s where the rubber meets the road for me and for anyone that’s listening to us. Not what you say, not what I say, but what does God say in His written words, the Bible, about homosexuality?

Louis: Well it’s very clear starting with the book of even Genesis Chapter 1 where it says “We were made in His image” and His image goes on to say “He created us male and female,” then later it says in the creation story that “He saw that man was alone and He wanted to give man a helper of his equal female.” So you have the full creation story. When you come against that, and that’s why in Leviticus it says “If a man lays with a man in a sexual relationship as he would with his we in marriage then he has created an abomination.” An abomination is the equivalent of like quenching the Holy Spirit what is in the New Testament like that. Then when you move to the book of Romans Paul gives us practically a chapter and part of another chapter, part of chapter 1 and most of chapter 2. Talking about why homosexuality is not right and you cannot inherit the kingdom of God if you are that. Then we go to Corinthians where Paul does it again for the Corinthians and he puts a list of sins that you cannot have if you want to enter the kingdom of God. It doesn’t mean that you can’t repent and you can’t turn your back on your sin, it means simply that if you stay in that sin of homosexuality, it’s listed there in 1 Corinthians 6:9 it is very clear. Then you go on even to the book of Jude where it talks about Sodom and Gomorrah and what happened there. So it’s pretty clear throughout the bible. The word licentiousness that is mentioned many times in the gospel accounts, I think the Lord Jesus very clearly, that was a general term for sexual immorality.

Sid: So help me out. How do these major denominations condone homosexuality, Christian denominations, how does someone that says “I’m a Christian I believe in God read these things in the Bible and justify it?”

Louis: Well those denominations, like the most recent one the United Church of Christ, they totally longtime ago disbanded their belief that the Bible was thee word of God, it was without error.

Sid: That’s the only way you could say you’re a Christian and be a practicing homosexual. The two cannot, according to the Bible, go together.

Louis: That is correct. So you see they have disbanded their belief that the Bible is the constitution for the Christian and for his salvation, and for his edification and sanctification. They’ve left the Bible and see that’s why any denomination that walks away from the Bible will walk away from what is good and accept what is evil. That’s why in the Methodist Church there’s a split, in the Presbyterian Church now there’s a major split because it seems like almost every national meeting that comes up with the Presbyterians and their general assembly they continue the liberals, who don’t believe in the Bible as the word of God, bring up “Let’s have homosexuality made acceptable.” The people turn it down who are there at the National Assembly meeting, but they bring it up again. So these churches are doing I think basically because they have no other place to go. Instead of digging into the word of God and believing it and obeying it, they’ve just boo-hooed it.

Sid: Now you talk in your book about the Kinsey Studies that lots of people giggle about and laugh, but how scientific were the Kinsey Studies?

Louis: Oh they were not scientific at all you couldn’t even begin to say they had much science. Kinsey did not use the scientific method of sampling, and it was around because the Gallop Poll organization and philosophy was well operative by 1940, it was developed in the late 30’s. So when Kinsey came along and did his and published his book in 47 and 48, he had been doing this all during the 40’s. So what he did was he went to 3 sources to see about homosexuality, and he’s the one that gave us the erroneous 10% figure of the population. He went to prisons, of course there’s far more…

Sid: What was Kinsey’s morality like out of curiosity? Did he have an agenda to prove something?

Louis: Well we know that Kinsey… people who have worked with him, several people who have worked with him and not in recent years but maybe 20 something years ago said “That he was bisexual and that he was in total rebellion to his Christian and church background.”

Sid: I can’t believe in your book you state that his sampling techniques were of the following groups:

• Sex offenders
• Pedophiles
• Homosexuals
• Prostitutes

This isn’t a sampling of America.

Louis: Also there’s one other thing we didn’t mention there he went to gay bars also.

Sid: So we thought as a nation this is what sexuality is and those are the people he used to sample?

Louis: Oh yes I remember…

Sid: I’ll tell you what we’re out of time.

Sid: What happened next Bill?

Bill: Well, Sid it was just like a cloud came into that bus of God’s glory. In fact I felt in the bus as I’m standing now in the middle of the bus watching this whole scene.  People just listening to this lady sing softly in another language.  I felt exactly what I’d felt in the service and interestingly enough Katherine Kuhlman had said “What’s happening here should be happening everywhere; should be happening in every ministry; should be happening in every church.” And that really I didn’t think sunk in but while I’m standing there you know just thinking this is the atmosphere that I felt earlier that day in the service.  And God spoke to me gave me I would call it a word of knowledge now but I just knew that God just spoke to me about somebody being healed and was very specific what was happening to this person.

Sid: Had you every hear something like that before?

Bill:  Never and so…

Sid:  And so you knew exactly the condition.

Bill: Exactly the problem I had was “What do I do with this?”  Like when to me when God gives you a word of knowledge it doesn’t take any faith you just know it; I knew that immediately as real as I know that I’m talking to you on the telephone today. So it wasn’t a matter of well, what if this isn’t or what if it’s not happening.  But I didn’t know what to do; I thought “If I go to the front and take the microphone and just speak out this word of knowledge they’re going to say “Your acting like Kathryn Kuhlman because these people loved her of course and I thought they’ll get mad at me and they’ll throw me off the bus we’re going down the highway really fast I’ll die and I’m not a brave man. So I’m walking slowly to the front of the bus saying “What do I do?” It’s one thing to know what God’s doing and it’s another thing to try to figure out what you do with this.  And as I’m walking up a lady grabbed my arm and she said “My friends just been healed.”  And I said “What of?”  And she told me exactly what God had told me; so I didn’t have to do anything other than go to the microphone and say “This lady has just been healed.” And the lady came up and she started sharing what had happened and partway through her testimony the power of God hit her and nobody was near her.  I didn’t pray for her; nobody was near her or behind her she went flat on her back right down on the aisle and it’s like snowy, rainy, slushy, mushy and there she is and we’re just standing.  I’m standing there saying “Wow,”

Sid: The same Spirit that was in the Kathryn Kuhlman service followed you in that bus.

Bill:  And nobody was doing anything; you know I just… I didn’t want to be distracted I just thought “I’ve got to pursue Holy Spirit I’ve got to know Him.”  And as this woman hit the floor another person called out “I’ve just been healed.” Well they came up and they testified and the same thing happened to them. It was probably about the fourth person who really got very dirty by falling on the aisle.  We had someone stand them and say “Why don’t you help these people?”  And in the mist of all of this we heard a scream and we looked and the little four year old Greek Orthodox girl who the doctor said “Would never be able to walk” was running up the aisle.  Well the bus driver had challenged me with that earlier “If God really healed people why didn’t He heal the little girl?”  My response then was “I don’t know.”  But I looked down at the bus driver beside me and he’s driving down the highway we’re going fairly quickly and he’s not looking at the highway he’s looking at the big mirror above him and he’s shaking out of control; he’s got rivers coming out of his eyes.  And somebody said “You know “How long did you pray for this ministry?”  I never prayed for the ministry to start but I started praying that moment; and my prayer Sid was “God if you know how to drive a bus; please.”  Because I thought you know this guy is not looking at the road, he’s…

Sid: (Laughing)

Bill:  And we’re going to off and crash. Well the bottom line there is God must know how to drive a bus but we were fine. That bus driver said to me after the trip, “I will never be the same again.”  Just a few months ago I got an email from a young man I’ve never met he said “I want you to know what happened on that bus in 1972 is still happening. My dad was the bus driver, I’m now a leader in a Pentecostal denomination in western Canada and in every meeting we have in all of our groups we pray for the sick and the sick are getting healed.

Sid: Bill there is such a presence of the Holy Spirit’s that I’m going to ask you to pray right now because I am hearing someone’s spine has just been healed in Jesus Name.

Bill:  And actually there is somebody the doctors have told you that your spine was deteriorated and there was nothing that could be done; that’s what the doctor said “There was absolutely nothing that could be done.” I see bones coming together right now from top to bottom of the spine.  I see a spine straightening right now; I see a pinched nerve being released.  God is healing spines, there’s an anointing for backs right now. There’s a disc that has been out of place because of an accident; that disc is literally moving into place. And right now somebody’s hip is being healed, doctors have talked to you about a hip replacement and you feel you feel the bones moving literally moving in the hip.  I want you right now to stand up and to start walking on that hip that you couldn’t put your weight on God’s healing right now. Sid there is there’s a healing wave going through this radio ministry right now.

Sid: I mean it got so strong I mean it was more tangible at that moment when I said it than when I ever remember.  I mean and you know when I find I don’t know if you’ve seen the same thing Bill but once one person gets healed of anything anyone could be healed of anything.

Bill: Yeah, exactly exactly. And God’s will is that everybody be healed.

Sid: Now it is one thing for anyone to say that because they’ve read it in the Bible, but you’re an individual that right after that bus meeting you found out where ever you minister miracles took place to the point where you literally… what’s the largest meeting you’ve held for miracles?

Bill: Oh my goodness, well we’ve obviously had meetings with thousands of people; we’ve ministered in India, we’ve ministered across Canada. And you know we have thousands of people come but you know what we also minister… our mission field is the Arctic Circle and above.

Sid: Yeah, I’ve read that and I am fascinated by some of the statistics that you’ve mentioned. For instance sexual abuse among these people in that area 1 in 2 girls are molested by 18; 1 in 3 boys are molested by 18, the suicide rate, the alcohol among the Indians they’re called Inuit. And you’re having an impact on them.

Bill: We have seen in Arctic Canada a revival; we’ve seen entire communities absolutely changed. There’s a brand new equivalent to a state it’s called Nunavut it’s our newest Providence or territory.  Nunavut means our land; it’s governed totally be Inuit; almost all of the leaders are born again spirit filled people. I can take you to all…

Sid: But when you started going there what was it like?

Bill:  You couldn’t find one Christian; it was so black so tough; so desperate and the fact is it’s so far it’s so expensive.  For me to go to Arctic Canada cost’s me more than to go any other part of the world; and we started going 30 years ago; just over 30 years ago and we’ve seen real revival there.  But this past almost 10 years now we’ve been ministering in Arctic Russia with unreached groups of Eskimos.  And you talk about you know about size of meetings; four years ago we had an entire service our whole team in Arctic Russia    for one man.  We found one man living in a tent with his reindeers out in the middle of literally nowhere at the very top of Russia, never heard the name of Jesus; never heard the gospel and it may have been the smallest meeting in history but Sid it was the greatest meeting because 100% of the crowd got saved that day. He totally got transformed by the power of God.

Sid: And by the way most people aren’t aware of how cold it is in the Arctic, how cold is it?

Bill:  I just got back from Arctic Russia we just did a major humanitarian effort to one of the remote regions and it averaged around 50 below zero.

Sid: My goodness I can’t even comprehend that.  Bill we’re out of time today however your book we’ve been offering “Six Key’s to Breakthrough and Healing” your heart is that everyone walk in this miracle anointing.  I believe that there’s an anointing on this book for an individual to get healed; I mean to accomplish exactly what you state in the title “Six Keys to Breakthrough in Healing.”  But your heart isn’t just for them, your heart is for them then to take the gospel to others.

Bill:  Exactly and the reason we wrote this book is that’s there’s a lot of people praying for the sick and then not seeing the sick healed.  These keys help them see breakthroughs in people they minister to because God does want everybody healed.  This book has been phenomenal as far as helping people breakthrough and healing.  

Sid: Have you had reports of people that have just read the book and been healed?

Bill:  Yes, and it just… you know several of the keys that people haven’t really thought about can…

Sid: Listen I have thought about all these keys but the way it’s expressed with the anointing it had a breakthrough in my revelation of it.  Look we’re out of time Mishpochah but we’re running out of time on planet Earth, you realize that there’s a ministry for you and God wants you healed.

Sid: We are getting ready Mishpochah to blow the grandest shofar, the grandest trumpet in Zion because when that sound hears it will shatter ever demonic stronghold that is trying to prevent you from achieving your destiny.  That’s why I have Barbara Yoder interviewing her this week on the breaker-anointing and Barbara you explained on yesterday’s broadcast briefly what the breaker-anointing was. It’s actually one of the names of God. How would you like God running interference with you and can you see it it’s just like a football team when those big backs are running and knocking down everything in your path.  You just walk through the goal post with a touchdown. I mean it’s easy when that happens.  When was the first time you were exposed to the breaker anointing Barbara do you recall?

Barbara: Yeah, I do because when God took me to Bethesda Missionary Temple in Detroit He knew I needed teaching and training and I had no idea where to go. So I just you know cried out to God and I said “Take me some place.”  And there would be Mom Beale, as we called her out of both love and revering honoring her; she was a real mother in Zion.  She would sense there would be an oppression in the service and you could feel it; you could feel like a palpable resistance, oppression at times just something sitting over the service.  And I’ll never forget this happened several times during the times that I attended that church and was a part of it. She would roll, they’d roll her in her wheelchair up to the pulpit and she would take her right hand lift it up in the air and let out this word in tongues Haroush!  It was always the same word and literally it was as if a dark presence left that place and the whole audience, congregation would break into shouting joy, whatever because you could just feel that dark whatever it was lifting.  It was oppression sometime depression but it was always a spirit of resistance and you could feel it. We could only go so far in the service.

Sid: Well, let me ask you this question when she let this word out in tongues did she shout it or did she say it like this?

Barbara: Oh no she said it with great authority she would say HAROUSH!

Sid: Because let me ask you something I’ve observed when I used to have healing lines I usually now just pray over the whole congregation at once and miracles breakout. But when I used to have healing lines I would find every once and awhile I would put my hand on someone and I would almost scream a word, I’d scare myself and for sure I’d scare them but I noticed there was more power when I got loud because God was telling me to be loud.

Barbara: You know I don’t understand it Sid but agree with you totally and what I find is that when we feel something intensely and particularly when the anointing it’s not really a feeling it’s a presence of God that comes upon us that there’s an intensity to it at time that you can’t help but speak loudly.  And I find myself doing that quite frequently and when that happens literally people get healed, demons will leave it’s amazing the whole atmosphere of the congregation will change.

Sid: Okay, paint me a picture right now of one service where Mother Beale yelled with authority Haroush! Paint a picture of what might have happened.

Barbara: In the service we would feel a real oppression. I’m sure you’ve been to church and when you’re used to the presence of God and it’s not there you know that there’s something pressing against you pressing against the service.  And I remember this one Sunday it was particularly it was like everybody in the whole place was depressed.  And you just…

Sid: What a wonderful church service; I’m just teasing go ahead. (Laughing)

Barbara: It’s like why did I come to church today? (Laughing)  Everybody is in a funk. She it wasn’t a natural funk or a natural depression she knew it was supernatural.  And that Sunday she came up and let out that Haroush! I mean the congregation just started shouting it was as if you let a bunch of people out of a cage. Which goes along with Micah 2:13, “The breaker will go up before them and He’ll break open the way.”  When she did that it was just like joy and shouting it was just like joy well it wasn’t just like it did; joy broke out in the congregation and they were totally, the people including myself, were totally released from that heavy oppressive presence it was really a demonic presence trying to keep us from getting us to where we needed to go in that service that morning.

Sid: You know the scripture you keep referring to in Micah that’s Micah 2:13, I want to read this to you in the Message translation. Now Barbara what I do is I take translations and I personalize them.  I love it when I take the word of God and personalize it and say it out loud. This is from the Message let me read this to you. “I God will burst all your confinements and lead you out into the open.  I will follow the King He will be out in front leading me.” How do you like that?

Barbara: That’s powerful I love it.  I don’t think I have read it in the Message.

Sid: Well, when I read it in the Message it just all fell into place. Now you’ve seen a lot of amazing supernatural things in your life.  You’ve had personal healings; tell me a personal healing that you have had for yourself.

Barbara: One remarkable one was when… my husband died in February, and on July 4^th of that year I woke up with excruciating pain in my upper neck and back it was I couldn’t even move.  I don’t know what caused it I woke up with it. Went to the doctor and he told me that my vertebrae… not my vertebrae but my spinal cord was bulging through a hole in my vertebrae.

Sid: That sounds awful I bet it was really painful.

Barbara: It’s the most one of the most painful things probably the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced.  I’ve had horrible pain from abdominal surgery but I remember by Friday this was Monday that it started by Friday of that week I literally was in the bathroom thinking “What am I going to do today?” I can remember right where I was and I said “This pain is so bad I understand why people commit suicide because of pain.”  Not because I was going to commit suicide that how intense it was.

Sid: Right.

Barbara: The minute I recognized that I said “I am going to the office.”  I hadn’t gone to the office the pain was so excruciating. I had to hold my right arm up all the time just to diminish it slightly.  So here I am driving my car to miles to the church to the office and holding my right arm up.  And I told my staff I said “Listen either you all are filled with the Spirit of God or you’re not; if you’re filled with the Spirit of God then you can make this pain go away you can heal my back.  And they looked at me like “Oh brother I can’t believe this.”  Because I knew my spine was bulging out my vertebrae. So you are going to do it.  I said “If you don’t heal me today I’m going to fire all of you.”  So I mean I wasn’t really…

Sid: I may try that sometime… no I’m just teasing but go ahead. (Laughing)

Barbara: (Laughing) But literally I believed that if the Spirit of God was in them then they could heal me by the power of Jesus.  So they laid their hands on me; it took about 30 minutes and I said “Keep going it’s not gone yet.” They prayed 30 minutes and after about 30 minutes Sid that pain was totally gone. I’ll never forget it and I didn’t have to have surgery and in the meantime the doctor had lost the MRI results and so by the time they found them at the university it was a month later and I didn’t even need the surgery.

Sid: Barbara hold it for one second God wants to heal people of spine and neck problems.  Will you proclaim that right now?

Barbara: I sure will that’s what I was thinking.  “Yes Lord I speak to those spinal and vertebral issues those rotebral issue and I say be healed right now in Jesus Name.  There’s somebody who has a bulging disk between L3 and L4. The doctors says he’s going to do surgery and I speak to that right now and I say be healed in Jesus Name.  I just see there’s somebody feeling intense heat up and down their spine and whatever has been the issue there the root cause it’s being eliminated right now.  And just start bending; just start bending your back right where you are. And where you are and where you’ve had pain you’re not going to have pain now.  Now don’t be afraid to lean over into that pain because as you lean over that’s your act of faith and it will disappear.

Sid: Barbara we’re out of time right now…

Sid: One new humanity that is going to release the full presence of God’s Spirit on planet earth and we are going to see what Jesus prophesied. “You will see the same works I have done; and even greater.”  Now why do we need this right now?  Because we are under attack by the enemy.  I have Dr. Doug Weiss on the telephone and the statistics that he’s personally experienced and aware of it is amazing the sexual perversion is increasing but the amazing part isn’t that it’s increasing in the church, it’s increasing in believers; it’s increasing with pastors; and someone somewhere has got to draw a line.  Now Doug one of the reasons it’s increasing it’s the same reason for abortion; one of the reasons of abortion is there are some wonderful leaders of God that are having their life snuffed out before it even gets started.  But I look at your life and I look at… you were so sabotaged by the world, the devil and the flesh that it’s amazing I’m talking to a sane human right now Doug.

Doug:  Well, that may be true but I’ll tell you what when the enemy declares war on your life that means there is some value that God has in your life.  And I can tell you Sid the church throughout world history and once it knows it’s at war and wakes up it always wins it never fails.  But the church has been in a sexual war for decades and not really alert to it’s a war; it’s strategic and what the enemy is trying to take is the church’s authority on planet earth.  And if he succeeds in America we will look like Europe in the next 10 to 15 years.

Sid: But you know what Europe is getting even worse too. You know I don’t know Doug; I don’t know that we’re going to have 10 or 15 years of business as usual in America if it just this immorality keeps coming.  I don’t think we have 10 or 15 years.

Doug:  You may be right; I’m being optimistic I believe that now is the hour through what you’re doing and we’re doing together people can become clean. If we lose our self in this we’re in serious trouble.  But if we can capture the light of God; if we can capture the sexual purity of God and maintain the destiny that God has for each one of our DNA that He’s put in us by His Spirit.  Then if each one of us reaches that I believe that we can have revival.  I believe that we can see the Spirit of God.  I believe our sons and daughters will prophesy; I believe that we will see healing of supernatural things way out of the order that the America seen yet.  I really believe that we can cry out to God and He’ll hear us if we have a clean heart.

Sid: Doug, you made a statement that is so strong, I want to shout it from the rooftops and you said in your literature God is not just your Father but He’s your Father-In-Law explain that.

Doug:  Yeah, so many people we know marriage is not between two people.  Remember that conversation you know as marriage between man and woman.  Even Christian leaders were talking about that; that was probably about one of the dumbest questions.  Marriage is not between a man and woman; it’s between God and man and woman.  Okay a marriage is 3 people; and because of that God’s is not just your Father He’s your Father-In-Law.  So if you’re a man your wife is God’s daughter and you have two relationships with the Father.  One is Father, one is Father-In-Law; and I say this is true as a woman.

Sid: And I remember my Father-In-Law the night I got married he looked me in the face, he wasn’t a believer and I wasn’t either by the way, but he took his finger at me and he said “If you ever do anything wrong to my daughter I’m coming to get you!”  How much more if it’s God!

Doug:  Well, God feels the same way for every daughter so imagine if you’re married to his daughter and then you’re over here looking at pornography and you’re doing other things that are in appropriate imagine how He feels towards you.  Okay he has the same Father-In-Law heart towards the woman you married.  So we have to be so… some of us we don’t really think about God in those terms, but He is Your Father-In-Law; every man every daughter and every daughter is precious to Him.  Every daughter is pure to Him; every daughter is holy to Him. So we need to be careful what we’re doing because as men our spiritual destiny; our spiritual authority is at stake Sid if we go down the wrong road.

Sid: Now you have some weapons that we have at our disposal to protect us from this onslaught that’s going on; explain them.

Doug:  Well, I mean we need to carry the weapons that God has given to us; I mean the first thing is that you have to commit to being clean; you have to commit.  If you don’t make a commitment you’re going to be very hard to do that; you need to have a plan whether that’s having accountability; okay. And one of the very basic things Sid we talked about is the fear of the Lord; fear God!  Understand He really is and He’s a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. He will mess with you if you are not being appropriate.  And we need to you know there’s lots of practical…

Sid:  Well, even going back to that God is your Father-In-Law sentence that you had; husbands are supposed to protect their wives not open themselves up to the demonic and addictions.

Doug:  Well, and disease; I mean you know it goes all the way down spirit, soul and body.  I know women who have AIDS because of the inappropriateness. 

Sid:  Their husbands.

Doug:    There are real consequences to this Sid I mean and some of them are you know known like disease and divorce and stuff like that.  And some of them are unknown; it is the man who lost his spiritual authority; the book he didn’t write; the ministry he didn’t start; the church that lost the wealth of that person.  And all of that kind of stuff the missions that weren’t done. There are so many causalities that are unknown Sid because in the book of Revelations it says this in 2:20 until the end.  And the very end it’s about that woman Jezebel teaching sexual immorality in the church.  God said “I gave her time to repent and she wouldn’t but the very last verse says this “To him who overcomes.”  And it as talking about this spirit of sexual duplicity and Christianity “If you overcome that duplicity I will,” not I’ll think about it; “I will give you authority over the nations.”  Every believer has international global DNA inside of them; and that can be forfeited by sexual sin.

Sid: And there’s a question I ask often and I’m sure you ask this question.  “Whatever happened to the fear of the Lord.”

Doug:  You know I think well we took God out of schools; you know and so now our culture is moving in a godless direction to say the least.  Okay, and now there’s some places where we’re taking the gospel out of the church; you know so we’re not really talking about the God who is present and who you are accountable to.  We want God to be our buddy and our friend which is you know that’s fine but He is God Almighty, okay! And when you honor Him and understand that you will be accountable in not only what you say and do but your heart towards Him that you want to live and respect of Him because He died for me.  You know and I think for me that’s a very core; I just want to honor the Lord. Men if you’re struggling and you’re looking at porn and you’re going on sights and you’re doing things that in appropriate, women as well, it doesn’t honor the Lord.  And he wants you to have a clean heart inside your spirit is a cry to be clean and you deserve to have that fulfilled.  That is your destiny to live a clean heart and a clean life and a pure conscience before God.

Sid: And you talk about steps that that occur from lust to death; you have formula called “You + P = D” explain.

Doug:  Yeah, that’s a great chapter in “Clean” Sid. You is yourself + P (which is pornography), or we could put in any of the sexual inappropriate behaviors in there, equals destruction.  So many people are deceived into believing that these little private sexual text and emails and chat rooms and video gaming that they do it doesn’t hurt anybody.  I’ve written over 30 books and a couple of those books have lots of statistics in how a wife, depression, lowers her self-esteem waking and their marriages are emotionally and less satisfying and immature and the husband stay.  The children suffer relationship and all kinds of other kinds of consequences so this is not a victimless crime.  See there is something that I say in “Clean” that’s really powerful Sid.  “What a man loves is what he protects,” and if you’re protecting your pornography and your protecting your sexuality instead of protecting your family that means your sword is aimed at your family!  We need to switch that around, as a man we need to stand and face their sword against the enemy without family behind us and confess our faults and say “This is what’s going on, I don’t want to be like this; I have a desire to be clean and be free.” Get honest with our pastors or our spiritual leaders; our wives and so we can be free and clean.”

Sid: Okay you’re talking about married men but there’s a whole army out there of single men.

Doug: Hmm, hm.   

Sid: What is lust? How would you define that?

Doug:  Well, lust is very; we all know when we’re doing it.  Okay, “In Clean” I talk about a holy hologram a woman is multidimensional she’s spirit, soul and body; when you reduce her to less than three dimensional you lust.  When you use that for sexual purposes you lust; okay you may be that well, I’m looking at something maybe it’s not pornography maybe it’s the Victoria Secret Catalog, or Sports Illustrator, but you’re lusting. You know when she’s no longer a child of God; she’s no longer a daughter; she’s no longer a friend of mother. See Paul said “Love all women as sisters.”  And what he was saying was put all women in a relationship context and you won’t struggle with lust.

Sid: You know as a new believer I had zero background but I was set free of a lot of things instantly.  I saw myself having a problem in that arena. And what I did is I took a scripture “Blessed are the pure in heart” and the second that I was tempted I said that scripture out loud and it just dissipated, it was wonderful.

Doug:  Amen, that’s a very good tool because what you did is you put that woman in a relationship context and you said “Father she’s Your daughter, she’s Your daughter I’m not going to lust over her.” 

Sid: Well, actually I did it the other side; I put myself and I said “I want to be blessed, I want to be of pure heart.”

Doug:  Amen.

Sid: I looked at it from my side. (Laughing)

Doug: Good for you, good for you that’s awesome.

Sid: Okay, our time has slipped away and I want to get into what entertainment does to the brain on tomorrow’s broadcast.

SID: Now there’s a question that a lot of Christians are wondering. Can a Christian have a demon? What do you say, Nick?

NICK: Yes.

SID: That’s short. You’re a man of few words.

NICK: Yes.

SID: But explain please.

NICK: Okay. First, I want to explain that you’re not a bad person if you’re dealing with an evil spirit. Our enemy is the devil. It’s taught in the New Testament that we should cast out demons. Jesus went into the temple, which is a type of, the New Testament believer—

SID: The Temple.

NICK: Yes, the Temple of the Living God. And see, the temple had the Holy of Holies where the Holy Spirit dwelled, where no man could get in without the blood of the lamb. And then we have the inner court and the outer court. Jesus cast thieves, the moneychangers and the thieves. The thieves could be representing evil spirits out of let’s say the outer court and the inner court. And so it’s my belief that that the Bible teaches that there’s a spirit, soul and body, and that our spirit man is sealed with the Holy Spirit once we receive Jesus Christ. And our flesh, it needs to be renewed with our mind. So our flesh could have stuff inside causing things that aren’t of the Kingdom of God.

SID: Now you talk, you know what I’m thinking about. Have you ever read the New Testament about a spirit of infirmity? Have you ever been sick? You now are no longer with that institution. You help people full time all over the world. What about someone that is physically sick? Could that be a demon?

NICK: I run into a lot of times with people who have been praying for healing for many years. They go to the pastors, they go to evangelists and they come up front, and they want healing. They really want it bad. But they just want healing and they don’t maybe, possibly they’ve never heard of deliverance or they don’t believe in deliverance.

SID: You know, at least a third of Jesus’ ministry was casting out spirits from people.

NICK: Yes. The evil spirits actually cause all sorts of things that people think are just medical conditions like I’ve seen people healed of MS. I’ve seen people healed of—

SID: There was a spirit behind it?

NICK: Yes. A spirit of cancer, I’ve seen it come out of a woman. She said that it came out of her breast. A spirit came out of her breast. Also I’ve seen people healed of stage 4 liver cancer or actually, I’m sorry, bladder cancer, I’ve seen that. It was actually spirits.

SID: I don’t have time to ask my doctor friend this, but I don’t think too many people with stage 4 bladder cancer get healed and all they have to do is do what the book says: believe it and do it. The book is the truth book, otherwise known as the Bible.

NICK: Paul told us if we sowed the flesh, of the flesh we’re going reap corruption. And so what happens is that we, sometimes we have a sinful life in our past and we get, we receive Jesus into our hearts and then we don’t learn about deliverance, and bring those, let’s say corrupt type things in the flesh, the curses from the law or from living in sin into our Christian life. And then we have to deal with these evil spirits later on causing disease and sickness, arthritis, cancer, all sorts of things.

SID: Now what I love about you, Nick, is this is not your emphasis in your life. His emphasis is intimacy with God, loving God. Tell me how you developed such intimacy with God.

NICK: Well when I was going through my healing of schizophrenia, I would, I started praying. I prayed about a couple of minutes at night then I’d pray about 30 minutes a night, and then I decided to look at the Word where it said, “If you seek God you will find Him when you seek Him with your whole heart.” And He’s a great rewarder of those who diligently seek him. So I prayed to God and I said, “This is your Word and I’m standing on it and I’m going to seek you until the day I meet you either in my room or in eternity.”

SID: Give me an example, actually pray that right now. Just pray what you just said.

NICK: Lord Jesus, your word states that if I seek you with my whole heart, if I actually pray and seek you, your face, and I repent for my sins, I can actually meet you and see you, and you will come through for me.

SID: And you hear God’s voice now. What’s it like to have intimacy with God? Describe what it’s like. I know that’s hard, Nick. But, I like to ask hard questions.

NICK: I did every single drug you could name: ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana. I went to every party you could think of. I was a nightclub bartender. I did everything I could to escape from the pain of the world. The day I met the Holy Spirit, I never could ever imagine why anybody would ever want to do drugs or ever want to drink, because the Holy Spirit’s love is better than all of it.

SID: Pray the Holy Spirit’s love, but the Holy Spirit’s love on people that are watching right now.

NICK: Okay. I have, I would like you to do like a heart sign, like a prophetic sign with your hands. I believe the Lord wants you to do this. Just as an act of faith, just this little heart sign. It’s simple. Just as an act of faith, showing God that you really want His love, because He loves you. See the heart. In the mighty name of Jesus, Father God, I pray that the person or the people that are seeing this heart, that they would raise their hands up with this heart and agree with me that you will appear to them. You will show them your deep love that you will heal them of everything that afflicts them, that you will deliver them and their family members, and prosper them. Lord, I pray for each individual that you would send a dart of your love into their heart in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, the risen king. Amen.

SID: Amen. I’m going to tell you something. If there’s someone watching right now and you say, I’ve gone too far, there’s no hope for me, answer them in one minute.

NICK: Jesus Christ is standing next to you right now. All you have to do is just open your heart to him. If you doubt the Word of God, if you doubt that Jesus Christ is really real, you just pray to God and you ask Him about Jesus. God is a God that answers prayers. Listen. He is the one that answers prayers and He knows what you’re going through. God is a God of hope and a God of love, not a God of religion, not a God of judgementalism, but a God of love and of peace. Reach out.

SID: Say, Jesus, I make you my Lord. Say it out loud wherever you are right now. I believe you died for my sins. I ask you to take over my life, be Lord of my life, fill me with your Holy Spirit and power. If you can do that for Nick, say that out loud, if you can do that for Nick, you can do whatever I need for me, in Jesus’ name. Amen.

SID: Now David heard God’s voice and went away for like a retreat in a tent for eight days to seek God’s face. What did you take away from that experience?

DAVID: Well this isn’t brand new. I did go back a couple of years ago. This just happened. And literally the takeaway from eight days in the forest with my dog, but most importantly with God, God said to me, Sid, we’re coming into a short season of blessing and prosperity. But those that are going to enjoy it the most are what you would call normal, red hot for God. And those people that are pressing in, they’re living the life God wants them to live, they’re going to hear God in a more clear way. God showed me, going back to the vision that I had, the open vision where I saw the beams of light.

SID: Yes.

DAVID: He took me back there and said to me, “This connection is there for everybody. But those people that are dying to themselves, living for me, walking in holiness, I’m increasing their bandwidth. It’s like when the computers came out 25 years ago, you know, we can do data message and do texts. But now we have high bandwidth. We’ve actually got streaming video. And it’s like right now God is opening the windows to Heaven. For those people that are pressing in, there’s an increased bandwidth and they’re literally receiving and going to receive so much more high definition video from Heaven like Branham did. Branham who did, I heard it said in his life time, in his miracle ministry like in the late ’40s and ’50s, more miracles in his ministry than all the other great healing revivals together.

SID: David, another supernatural key is knowledge, and knowledge of the name of Jesus saved his life, his family’s life. Tell me about that.

DAVID: Well it all happened because I chose to meditate on the Word of God to renew my mind. And when you do that, Sid, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. And in this particular case, my wife and I, and our two children were in literally a killer tornado that took other people’s lives. And we were coming to a stop sign and two trees right in front of us 60 feet away, literally took off, one from the waist, one from the roots. My wife said, that wasn’t normal.

SID: Of course it wasn’t.

DAVID: Same time, about eight or 10 trees, 100-foot trees lay down across the road and I recognized I was out of control, couldn’t steer, couldn’t stop the van. And at that moment there’s no time to pray. But you know what’s in your heart. And out of the abundance of heart I said, “Jesus.” At the name of Jesus, the tornado had a [unintelligible], dropped us onto the ground and we drove south.

SID: Now David, my wife’s favorite key is humility. And I don’t have to worry about humility. That’s her job to [unintelligible]. However, my favorite key is the next one, compassion.

DAVID: Compassion is a real. If you look at the miracles of Jesus, before many miracles it says, “He was moved with compassion.” And literally this goes back a number of years. My wife was pregnant at the time with our daughter. We were driving to Wisconsin. We had just moved to Oklahoma the year previous to go to Bible school. And it was Christmas Eve, Sid, and literally the coldest day in history. The wind chill in northern Illinois, we were going from Tulsa to the Milwaukee area, the Illinois the wind chill —

SID: That’s quite a mouthful, the coldest day in history. Go ahead.

DAVID: It was like 70 below zero wind chill. They were saying, do not drive, do not go outside. It’s dangerous. Cars can’t run in this cold weather. I had just gone to Bible school, being a great man of faith, I said to my wife, “We are full of faith. I’m a man of faith. We’re going to go and we’re going to do just fine.” And literally, there was no traffic on the road. People had more sense than I did. And when we were going along the highway and seeing cars stranded because a car can’t run in that cold weather. Gas lines were frozen. And we got through Illinois, in the middle of Illinois and our car started to do like all the others, stopped running. Went over to the side of the road. And it was cold. I mean, the car, the engine heat couldn’t keep up with the cold outside. We were already chilled. But when the car stopped running it got very cold. And I got out of the car, opened the hood as if I knew what I was doing. But I opened the hood. I prayed a prayer and it was a good prayer. I mean, it was a good faith healing prayer. And I felt pretty proud about it. And I got back into the car, sat down and the car started right up. And praise God, this prayer stuff really works. We drove about a hundred feet and the car stopped again. And literally what I was told is that the engine heat, there was enough there to melt the little bit of the gas line. So we ran for another hundred feet or so. Now when we stopped, I see a [unintelligible] in the car. Again, I got out of the car and I looked at my wife first and said, “This is the worse memory of my life.” And my wife had the look of fear of death because there’s nobody out there.

SID: And you said she was expecting, too.

DAVID: Yes. She was six months pregnant. And there was no cell phones at that time. This is in 1983. And literally I got out of the car and I can’t get her face out of my mind. I opened up the hood. I can’t see her, but it’s all I can see, is that look of hopelessness. And I recognized it. I wasn’t a man of faith. I was operating out of foolishness and [unintelligible]. Even being proud of my faith, I mean, I was learning. What I’m learning today is compassion, and recognizing compassion defined by the dictionary is “the awareness of the suffering of another.”

SID: But when you were aware of the suffering of your wife and you prayed again with compassion, what happened?

DAVID: A miracle, absolute miracle. I prayed. I wept. Asked God to forgive me for my foolishness and pride. Sat down in the car and it started right up.

SID: David that was a great miracle. How great a miracle was it?

DAVID: Well, we would have died, Sid. I mean, there was no hope. There was absolutely, mechanics have told me, there’s no way a gas line once frozen can, outside of being in a warm garage or something. But literally God melted the frozen ice, started, like the water to wine, a molecular change. The car ran fine the rest of the trip.

SID: How many miles?

DAVID: Well from that point, it was 250 to 300 miles.

SID: Whatever God is doing for David, whatever God is doing for me has nothing to do with us. It has to do with the fact we chose to make God, our God, to believe in Jesus, to repent of our sins, believe his blood washed away our sins, believe that God remembers our sins no more and believe that Jesus lives inside of me, inside of you. I want you to pray that prayer right now and mean it, and have it count for eternity, and start doing the destiny that God has called you to. That’s the first step.

SID: Barbara, you learned about this breaker anointing at a congregation you went to. You would call the pastor Mother Neil. It wasn’t so popular for a woman to be a pastor back then.

BARBARA: No. She broke through to an amazing revival, latter rain revival, and had a congregation of 3500 people. And that’s where God took me once I got saved, to train me. And I sat under that anointing. God knew what He wanted to release in me.

SID: When was the first time you could remember seeing how the breaker anointing operated with her?

BARBARA: It was probably in about 1971. When I first went there, because she was a woman, I wouldn’t go to the service.

SID: But you’re a woman.

BARBARA: I know. And I was a feminist but I didn’t think a woman should be in the pulpit. So I would only go in the evening when her son spoke. But when I finally got up the nerve to go in the morning, she would just move powerfully, never talk longer than 15 minutes, 20 minutes was a long message. But 450 alcoholics got delivered. This one man, I’ll never forget him, powerful, he’d lay hands on people and God would just work miracles. But he had been a hopeless alcoholic who sold his baby’s shoes just to get money to buy a bottle of alcohol, liquor to drink. And it was man after man like that, mostly men who were just marvelously, miraculously delivered just like that. They didn’t go through 12-step.

SID: Did you say 450?

BARBARA: Over 450.

SID: But you were telling me that like when an oppression would try to come into the congregation, what would she do?

BARBARA: She was amazing. She was in a wheelchair by this time. She’s in her later years. She would have somebody roll her up to the platform. You could feel a visible oppression and she would just take her right arm, I remember this so well, and she would just lift it up in the air, and as she lifted it up in the air she’d let out this “haroosh!” And it’s like you could feel every oppression. You can feel every constriction. You could feel everything that kept people in captivity leave the room and it was like a cool, fresh breeze of just the peace of God invaded that room when she would do that. I mean, it was amazing. I’ve practiced since then, “haroosh.”

SID: I’m going to have you pray that at the end of the show.

BARBARA: It was amazing.

SID: But tell me about yourself when you need the breakers to show up for physical healing for yourself.

BARBARA: A remarkable one was my husband died in 1999, in February. And in July of that year, I developed, I woke up that morning with excruciating pain in my back. I couldn’t even move and I was like paralyzed in position, not because of the paralysis, but because of the pain. Found out there was a hole in my spine, in my vertebrae. The spinal cord was bulging out. And after five days of this I said, I can’t take it. And I knew at that point, I taught in the medical school so I understood what was going on. And I said, I understand why people want to commit suicide with pain. And so I said, okay, I’ve got to do something immediately. I had a medical diagnosis. They wanted to do surgery, but I couldn’t take the pain. So I drove to the office and told my staff if they knew God then they could lay hands on me and make this go away. And I said, if they didn’t know God well enough to lay their hands on my back and make that pain go away I’d fire them all. And I said, either Jesus the healer is in you or he’s not in you. That’s how desperate I was. And do you know, Sid, they prayed for me. It might have been half an hour. But do you know that I was totally healed.

SID: That’s the breaker.

BARBARA: That was the breaker. That was the breaker.

SID: Okay. In the last 18 months, you have seen more miracles than in your entire ministry of walking with the Lord.

BARBARA: Absolutely.

SID: How many years have you known the Lord?

BARBARA: I became a believer in ’69.

SID: Okay. Why are you seeing more miracles now? What’s going on?

BARBARA: Well I got tricked. I got tricked. That’s how I got into it. Well two prophets came and one said that, it was very specific, the next one was even more specific, and said, “You are going to Lake Michigan and you’re going to begin to hold healing services, healing and deliverance services, and people are going get miraculously healed.” And I thought, oh brother, that’s pretty specific. And he said, “You’re going to do it now.” I thought, now? And you know, I had seen a miracle here, a miracle there. I had even seen somebody, I had one marvelous cancer healing in all my years of ministry. And so but I had to believe the prophet. Either I believed him and would prosper or I’d let that analytical mind take over. So I just did it. And I happened to go over to a church. A pastor was in very bad shape. They had given him three years—three weeks, not three years—three weeks to live. And I thought, oh brother, what am I going to do. I remember when my husband was dying, we were pastoring. I thought, I got to get the congregation calmed down, all of that. And on the way over to preach for him that Sunday, I said, “I’ll do anything you want me to do.” He said, “I want you to preach.” And the Lord said, “I want you to hold a healing service.” I thought, a healing service? He’s dying of cancer. I thought, then I’m going to have to do something about this cancer. And then I was hoping, he was so sick he wouldn’t be able to come to the service.

SID: You think you’re the only one who thinks like this.

BARBARA: I mean, I’m just telling you the truth, yeah. So I thought, he’s so sick, three weeks. He had a stomach tube in. He couldn’t eat, had lost weight. It had now spread to his lungs and the guy had the nerve to show up in the Sunday morning service. I know it was his church, but believe me, it was one time I wished the person was sicker than they were. So he showed up in the service and I thought, God, what am I supposed to do with this guy? I’m teaching on healing. So at the very end I finished my teaching and went into healing the sick. I didn’t know what to tell him. It was so serious I knew I needed to hear from God. The only thing I heard, Sid, this is incredible, he couldn’t even walk as fast as a turtle. That’s how sick he was. So I just looked at him and I said, “Larry, run. Run around the church.” And he got up.

SID: Slow motion.

BARBARA: Slower than a turtle he walked. He couldn’t run. So then he got around to the first corner in the front of the church and he began to run. Well running was going as fast as a turtle. And so he did three circles around the church, the speed of a turtle. That was what running was to him. That’s all he could do. Somehow, he developed strength. He asked me to stay on. We had lunch together. They asked me back. Their church was one mile from Lake Michigan. And I had that prophetic word about go to Lake Michigan. I was in his office. He said, “Would you come back and do healing services in the fall.” And in the meantime, I notice this was February, the end of February, back in 2011. And by May of that year, he was jogging. I noticed him on Facebook. I was checking up on him on Facebook. He was jogging a mile. He has never gone back to the doctor. He says, “I won’t go back. I don’t want to hear any bad news. I am healed.”

SID: When Barbara teaches about the breaker anointing the revelation hits us. When the revelation hits us the breaker manifests themselves. Teach about the Hebrew word “parats”.

BARBARA: The word “parats” means to break out, to break through, to increase, to advance. It always implies increase and going from a confined space to an enlarged space. So it can have to do with the anointing on your life and increase it. It can have to do with finances. It can have to do with emotional wholeness or physical wholeness and increase.

SID: Give me an example of someone that broke through that sat under your teaching.

BARBARA: I can tell you about this guy just this last year who had hepatitis C and he had a liver transplant. And the liver transplant, he had it for 10 years, it failed. And he was going to have to have a new liver transplant and I prayed for him, and didn’t even know. He just said, pray for me. He wanted to keep everything confidential. So I didn’t even know what I was praying for. I just prayed for him. He went to the University of Chicago and the doctors were getting ready to do the prep for the new liver transplant, and they noticed the liver was functioning fine. He didn’t even know it had been healed. And then, so then they tested him for hepatitis C because hepatitis C never goes away, and they couldn’t find the hepatitis C. Well they didn’t believe it. They thought the blood had gotten mixed up. And so they drew it again and it still came back negative for hepatitis C. So they were really puzzled and they were sure he had hepatitis C. They did it a third time. Well after the third one came back negative, they finally said, he now has a normal liver and no hepatitis C.

SID: Now that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Barbara has seen that not only is she walking in a greater anointing of the miraculous, but it’s God’s will for you to be walking in a greater anointing of the miraculous. And I’m going to believe that when she prays for the breaker to manifest himself in your life that doors that have been shut are going to open in every arena of your life, in healing, having to do with salvation of loved ones, having to do with your family, having to do with your income. We’ll be right back.

Sid: I’m interviewing Marilyn Hickey, why?  She does what the Bible says she’s supposed to do, to me anyway.  As a Jewish believer in Jesus the Bible says you’re supposed to provoke the Jew to jealousy; she does and I have to tell you why she does.  She had the opportunity of seeing Branham, I mean he had, as far as I’m concerned, Marilyn Hickey he had one of the most outstanding ministries short of Jesus I’ve ever heard of.  Was he that accurate, did he really know so many things about people before he prayed; what was he like?

Marilyn: Branham had an unusual gifting of the Holy Spirit, a visitation of the Spirit of God on him and he would tell you detailed things.  Very gentle man, loving, not tall, not a big stature of any kind but oh the words he spoke.  And the first time I heard him I had an aunt and uncle here in Denver from Texas. He pointed my aunt out in an audience of 5000 she had on a red hat; he said “You have a grand child who’s injured at birth, she has never walked and when you go home she will be walking.”  Well, my aunt and uncle you know jumped up and drove to Dougherty, Texas, you know with 400 miles, and knocked at the door of their son’s house that Jerry had been injured at birth.  And the mother answers the door crying and she said, “I don’t what has happened but Jerry has started to walk.”  And the doctors said you know she had brain damaged she’d never walk.”  She had a normal life, that’s the kind of detailed things he would give.  And then my husband and I at 3 years after we were married we went to Dallas, Texas to “A Voice of Healing Campaign.”  And he spoke there and a big crowd of people, maybe 6,000 people under a tent, hot, hot, hot in Dallas, and he called me out and said, “You’re not from here, you’re from Denver Colorado, you’re from a mountainous area, you want to have a baby and they’ve told you you can’t have one; go home and receive your baby.”  But I had a radical experience with the Holy Spirit because as he’s facing me and saying this on the plate-form and I can’t explain this but it was like a wheel within a wheel turning.”

Sid: Well I’ve heard about that in Ezekiel I’ve often wondered about that, tell me I mean because this is actually biblical but what did you feel when this was happening?

Marilyn: Well, it was low and I knew the scriptures in Ezekiel but it was low and you could heard it and it would go swish – swish and I thought I was so frightened if I step into that I will die, this is the presence of God.  And then He said, “Go home and receive your baby.” And that wheel within a wheel whirring came into my feet and it was not till ten years later that I got pregnant with Sarah. When I was pregnant the doctor who examined me said, “You’re not pregnant it’s impossible your going through the change.”  So I went home and I had some pretty big changes.  Went to another doctor he said “This is a five and a half month pregnancy,” and so Sarah as you know most people know, you see me on television, Sarah’s with me and that was such a miracle.

Sid: But I have to ask you something, 10 years from that word did you give up, did you think that well the guys finally missed it with me?  What happened on your radar during these ten years?

Marilyn: (Laughing) Well Sid I’m a little embarrassed to say I did give up but my husband didn’t and we had adopted a child and I thought you know this is it.  And my husband…

Sid: Your helped the prophet out by saying maybe he saw the adopted child, is that what you were doing? (Laughing)

Marilyn: I thought, yeah, help God you know so many of us want to help God and so then my husband said, “No Marilyn God is going to give us a natural born child.”  So he is the one who really stood in faith.  Sid I’d like to pray for people who are listening who would like to have a child, the only prerequisite you need to be married.

Sid: I think that’s wise (Laughing), but you know what, I’m going to have to tell everyone listening right now if you want a child it doesn’t matter what the doctors have said, it doesn’t matter what your experience is it matters if someone believes God and prays according to the word of God.  And I have to tell you that Marilyn Hickey has a key word that I read in her literature, expectation. When she prays she expects God to answer.  Please pray Marilyn.

Marilyn: Lord, I thank You that you said we delight ourselves in You, You give us the desires of our heart, You told us that the barren would produce.  So I pray for everyone whose listening to this program, who would like a child, I pray that they have a wonderful, wonderful child; not a rebellious child a child who will serve God and You give them the wisdom to raise this child in the ways of the Lord.  And I thank you that many people, there’s going to be an increase in population, many people are going to have that child, the desire of their hearts in Jesus Name.

Sid: Amen, Marilyn I want to take you a little further, no let’s go back a little bit, I want to find out how God gave you such outrageous, and that’s the best word I can use for it, outrageous faith to believe for miracles.  I mean you go into Muslim countries, you have preached in Muslim mosques, for a woman to do this number one I don’t see how it’s possible in the natural, number two it’s got to be exceedingly dangerous. You didn’t just start out by going into speaking to thousands of Muslims advertising miracles will happen in Muslim countries, it started all the way back when you were 10 before you were even saved you used to literally read the Bible as a 10 year old.  Why would you do that especially not being saved, especially being a child?

Marilyn: I can only say the Spirit of the Lord. God has a plan and destiny for everyone no one here is an accident we’re made in His image God put a hunger in me to read the Bible and I would pray and I even began to memorize some of the scriptures. Then when I got born again at 16, I mean I was wild over the Bible I couldn’t get enough because I had the Author in my heart.

Sid: But another key thing is as I study your life there are a number of key points that are very very obvious to me. You went to a Bill Gothard Seminar and he talked about the value of memorizing scripture, that had to be a major directive from God in your life.

Marilyn: That turned my life around in another way I shouldn’t say around, but gave impetus to what God had already put in my heart a hunger for His word and Bill Gothard told how he was retarded and you know they just pushed him up grade by grade he didn’t make it but they’d push him.  And that he had a Sunday school teacher who began to teach all the boys to memorize scripture and he got into meditating on the scripture.  Memorize is really meditating, and how his grades went up, he graduated as valedictorian you know and went through the university always meditating and God just spoke to me and said this is the theme of your life Joshua 1:8, and mediate on the word day and night; if you speak the word day and night; you do the word day and night you’ll make your own way prosperous and successful.

Sid: Marilyn there are many people and by the way and by the way having researched you I see your good in languages means you have a mind that’s easy to memorize.  What would you say to someone that says “It’s so hard for me to memorize, I memorize three or four scriptures and by the time I get to the fifth I’ve forgotten the three or four that I memorized so I just don’t bother doing it any more what would you say to that person?

Marilyn: I would say take one scripture a week and your mind is fresh in the morning, mine is the freshest then. Say that scripture out loud ten times, now don’t ask me why ten is so good I don’t know.  And when you say it out loud then God begins to move in your spirit and you’re canning the word.  So I like Psalm 51:6 it says “Thou God desires truth in the inward man.  In the hidden man you will make me to know wisdom.” So you’re canning the word.  My mother used to can peaches in the summertime, we hated it, my brother and I had to sterilize the jars, peal the peaches, but we loved it in the winter time, there’s hardly anything better; well it’s almost better than kissing your husbands and eating home canned peaches.  And the Lord said, “That’s what’s your doing when you mediate on the word, your canning it, you’re putting it inside and then the Spirit at the time you need it will make it bring it to your mind and make it wisdom.  So these scriptures that you say, you know take one, take a promise.

Sid: And I like your idea of once a week and in fact God’s been speaking to me Marilyn that on the radio I should have one mediation scripture per week and I should say it every day the five days and everyone along, and myself included, will mediate on that one scripture per week so we’ll talk about that on tomorrow’s broadcast.  But Mishpochah I have to tell you I’ve seen Marilyn for years on television, I’ve heard her teach, but I got a hold of her book “The Pathway to Miracles” and I have to tell you it is so charged with faith.  You will have an expectation for miracles, and then her two CDs on God’s authority.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is pastor of In His Presence Church in Woodland Hills, California, Desiree Ayers.  I have Desiree’s brand new book called “God Hunger.”  If you were listening to yesterday’s broadcast you would find out that she was anorexic, bulimic, compulsive eater, and she tried everything the world had to offer.  She was a born again Spirit filled Christian; nothing seemed to be working, but you know Desiree you said that when your husband found out that you’re were back to your old habits of purging and doing everything possible to lose weight, repeat again what he said to you.

Desiree:  Well, he looked at me because I was mad, I could just remember how mad, how upset I was and he had like the fire of God coming out of his eyes and he looked at me and he said “Desiree Ayers I don’t care how many times you slip, I don’t care how many times you fall, the word of God says ‘You are healed and you are healed in the name of Jesus.’”  And what happened as he was speaking because it was such word of life, he was speaking words of life and I was upset, I was hurt and on the inside I was just crying, I mean not manifesting but just so hurt.  But as he did that it was like this strength went on the inside and all of a sudden I know longer viewed myself as a victim that only had a moment of recovery. I started to view myself as a victorious person that simply had a slip and a fall and that I could pick myself back up and I could get the victory over this.  And it was a good probably six month battle of different slips and falls that I’ve had but I will say now that I’ve had 23 years where there has not been one slip, there has not been one fall, I am completely healed.  I feel better about myself of who I am in Christ at almost 50 years old, then when I was 22 years old winning bikinis contests and felt horrible about myself.

Sid: Desiree in your book you state how big a problem this is, it’s not just a problem that you had and I believe that God redeems everything. Even the big mess you made out of your life you’re able to help others get free of addictions of all kinds but tell me about how serious this problem is.

Desiree:  Well, I’ll give you some statistics I got. Eating disorders affect 5 to 10 million American adolescent woman approximately, one million American boys and men. One of the common behaviors that lead to it is dieting. But it is 19% of college age women in America are bulimic and I think that’s shocking; bulimics are where you’re throwing up your food.

Sid: Nineteen percent but you know it’s the field that you used to be in, it’s the movies and it’s the TV that is really saying “You are…there’s something wrong with you if you don’t look like Twiggy.”

Desiree:  Yes, this one is shocking “According to a recent study, over half of the females between the ages of 18 and 25 would prefer to be run over by a truck than be fat. And 2/3 surveyed would rather be mean or stupid.  It’s just overwhelming, it’s been shown that 80% of American Woman are dissatisfied with their appearance; it’s approximately 300,000 adult deaths in the United States each year are attributed to unhealthy dietary habits and physical activity.

Sid: You know what I was wondering if our role models come from Hollywood I imagine a lot of Hollywood personalities are involved in anorexic or bulimic activities.

Desiree:  You’ll find that it runs rapid there, it does with dancers, it does with gymnast people that you know people that have to weight certain weights.

Sid: Listen the young kids, I mean it goes all the way to elementary school now it’s getting ridiculous.

Desiree:   Yeah, and I think that’s shocking you know I think it’s very shocking but I can remember dieting at the age of 10 years old being on diets.

Sid: Okay, it’s such a big business would you say in your book $50 billion a year died and diet related industry.  And of course there’s the old adage “Diets don’t work.” They literally don’t you need a lifestyle.  So what did…how did God heal you?

Desiree:   Well, there were a couple of things there are two big keys that I’ve written chapters have in my book.  And I’ve written one of them was getting my Bible and saying…I started Matthew and I read Matthew to Revelation and I said God you got to speak to me about this, this a problem Your word is life it’s health talk to me.  And when I got to Matthew by Chapter 4 where Jesus said “I’m the bread of life.”  And He talks about that He has food to eat that we don’t know about.  And there’s a fulfillment in Him and I started to find the more I filled myself up with God I didn’t have these cravings. Then what started to happen…

Sid: But wait a second now Desiree there are a lot of fat Christians that love God and they’re hungry for God but they’re still fat.

Desiree:  Well, you have to decide that you’re going to deal with the area you know because you know how the Holy Spirit is, He’ll work on work on one thing and then the next and then the next. If we don’t want to deal with it we don’t have to deal with it but any…

Sid: I say unfair, I say God should make us deal with it but go ahead.

Desiree:  Well, fortunately we pay the price how many fat over weight Christians that love God die before their time because they didn’t deal with this area. We all know that it’s not healthy, it’s not healthy for you. If you will allow God and you’ll get serious about it and if you’ll talk to Him and say “God You have every hair of my head numbered,” That means every pound of my weight let’s deal with it and get really serious about dealing with the issue He will come in and He will show Himself strong on your behalf and He’ll help you with that area.

Sid: You know Desiree my producer of the radio show who had to read your book says that she has been following what you are suggesting and it’s only been a week so that’s unfair, however she’s saying it’s supernaturally working the ideas you have in your book they’re not natural they’re supernatural.

Desiree:  You know and that’s what God does you know he can make this easy, I thought it was going to be so hard because I did every die there was, I tried every program, nothing worked for me.  But God works, He has answers in His work. What happens is the Bible talks about our mind being renewed by the Word of God.  My thought process because eating disorder is going to start in your mind, you’re going to become consumed with food, what you eat, what you’re not going to eat, yourself and what you weigh.  I started becoming consumed about the things of God and there in excited about the Lord.  And I would ask Him to lead and guide me each day in what I would eat and it became very easy because we all know we’ve all read, anyone that’s over weight you’ve read a diet book you know you’re supposed to eat the fruits and vegetables the wholegrain, you’re supposed to add exercise; we know what to do but the ability to apply it as a lifestyle in our life.  But when you bring the Holy Spirit in on the scene to help you, and this was a big key because when I would start to binge and purge this is where I found out how powerful the Holy Spirit was. I had one time where I was going to eat all this cookie dough and then I decided you know I’m going to give this Holy Spirit praying in other tongues thing a try. I ended up right before I was going to eat the entire bowl of cookie dough I started to pray in tongues just simply spoke out [praying in tongues]. Just started praying in tongues, well the presence of God filled my little tiny kitchen where I was living and I got on my knees and I started worshiping the Lord; I came up with tears of joy and I took that entire cookie dough without taking and stuffed it down the garbage disposal.  And to me that was my first miracle, and you know that I’ve experienced some major healing miracles in my life but this was my first miracle because I couldn’t do that before, food had such a stronghold on me, there is no way I could say no once cookie dough was in front of me.

Sid: Now, I believe that if someone has an addiction of any kind television, sports, whatever it is taking them away from making God #1 in their life whatever that is I believe that if they follow the supernatural principals in your book they will be free also.

Desiree:   Yes, and I know that for fact because I had started some eating support groups and the pastor of a church where I was an assistant pastor started to say “Well, Desiree started to say we have alcoholics, we have drug addicts, we have this that, can they come too?”  And so they started to come also and we just had so many praise reports from people being set free from pornography, to over spending, to eating disorders because it’s the same spiritual principals that you can apply in your life and be set free.

Sid: Desiree you’ve been teaching this and been free for 23 years and teaching others how to be free why did you write the book?

Desiree: Well, I wrote the book because I travel and I would share my testimony and it was probably 2 years ago I was in Washington and I did a church service, I did their youth group, I did like three meetings.  But it was in the youth group when a 16 year old anorexic girl came up and was sobbing and through herself into my arms and said “That you, thank you you’ve brought me so much hope.”  And I was very thankful for doing the testimony but I felt like I only gave her 2 to 3 little things, I didn’t give her everything that God has given me.  And God has been dealing with me for years about writing the book and I started years ago, but I just didn’t feel like I was a writer so I just didn’t complete it. But that one shook me up I thought “I Got to stop traveling and I got to sit down.” And I have to put this in a book so that when I go off to minister now I feel like I given this little 16 year old sweetheart everything she needs it’s all right here in the book, she can use it whenever she wants but there is every key that God gave me through my 6 months course. Because it was a 6 month battle I went through but He taught me so much in His word, through prayer, I’ve put everything in the book, I have not left out anything.  So that’s why I did it; it’s real easy to get the message out.

Sid: In your opinion if someone diligently does what you suggest it looks to me like they’ll move from the natural to the supernatural and really not have a food problem.

Desiree: Exactly, I mean it’s so easy God makes it sooooooo easy.   

Sid: We’re out of time though…

I just pray that what I’m saying you’ll do because there’s no limit to how much God wants to use you in these last days. I mean “Eye has not seen, or ear has not heard what God has in store for you.” I promise you it will not happen unless you build up your spirit man, and that’s what happens when you pray in tongues. You literally, it says “You edify yourself.” Edify is a Greek word that means you charge up your battery. You got to charge up your battery, and you do that by meditating on the word of God, and praying in supernatural languages.

Alright what’s our scripture for this week? I’m gonna personalize it and that’s what I want you doing. I want you saying it out loud many times this week. Acts 10:38 “God anointed me with His Holy Spirit, He smeared His Holy Spirit,” that’s what the word anoint means. “He smeared His Holy Spirit and His power into me.” Can you picture that God is smearing His Holy Spirit and His power HIS POWER into you that allows you to go “about doing good and healing all who are oppressed by the devil,” I mean not just a few people I heal all that are oppressed by the devil, why? Because God is with me, and that’s the way I want you to meditate so let’s work on Acts 10:38.

This week I’m speaking on supernatural tongues and I’m reminded of a friend of mine who was in a horrible situation. An evangelist, his wife left him, and he had 2 small children and he was beside himself. She just picked up after 20 plus years of marriage and said “I’m leaving.” So the only thing I could coach him to do was to pray in tongues for an hour a day. Now of course I told him a lot of comforting things, but he started praying in tongues 1 hour every day. You know what, he went from depression to walking in the greatest signs and wonders he ever walked in in his life. Now I’d like to say the marriage was restored, but of course I come from Washington D.C. and there was a basketball team and the coach was famous for saying “It’s not over till the fat lady sings.” (Laughing) So it’s not over with him till the fat lady sings. The truth of the matter is that God didn’t cause that problem, but because of that problem he became normal. I pray in Jesus name, you pray for an hour a day and you’ll become normal.

Now a lot of people don’t understand it, but there’s different kinds of tongues that are spoken about in the Bible. Just as there are different sports, and each sport has different rules, there’s different rules for these different types of tongues. People that are uninitiated and don’t understand is they put all the rules for all the different types of tongues. That’s sort of like putting football and basketball rules together, it can’t work. No wonder people are so confused. See in 1 Corinthians 12:10 “To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues.” So let’s talk about these “different kinds of tongues.” First, there’s tongues for witnessing to the unsaved in 1 Corinthians 14:22 it says “tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers.” I love this story, I haven’t thought about it in years, but there was a Filipino doctor who was actually a teacher of doctors at Howard University. Caesar, he was catholic, he was not born again, furthermore he was not much interested in spiritual things, but his wife she was on fire for the Lord. She came to a Bible study that I used to have. Christina and the Bible study we would pray for Caesar’s salvation. One day I put my hand on Caesar and I started speaking in tongues. Don’t ask me why the only answer I have is the Holy Spirit pushed me into doing this. So I started praying in tongues. He looked at me, he’s mystified, then he looks angrily at his wife and says “Christina did you tell him those words?” Then he thought “Wait no Christina you couldn’t have done that because it was in my Filipino dialect, although you’re Filipino your dialect is different than my dialect. It was exactly in my dialect.” That’s what it says in the book of Acts “They all heard languages in their dialect” it says in the Greek. So I said “What did I say to you?” and he said “You said perfectly in my language in my,” you know there are like 30 or 40 dialects in the Philippines. I just happen to speak in the Filipino language, I just happen to speak in his dialect. I told him that he must believe in Jesus as the Messiah. That sign caused him to become on fire for Jesus. It’s such a wonderful gift for nonbelievers to witness to them, but that’s just for the unsaved. I don’t have time to go into it, but he did amazing things after he became a believer. I doubt if would have ever become a believer if he didn’t see that supernatural sign.

Then another type of tongues is your personal prayer language. This isn’t public this is your personal prayer language. In 1 Corinthians 14:2 “For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.” So first of all, who are you speaking to? You’re speaking to God. So every time you speak in a supernatural language you are speaking to God. You realize how holy this is; how wonderful this is? I have a little chair that’s opposite me, and when I wake up early in the morning I’m sitting in my chair looking at this other chair and I visualize Jesus sitting in that chair, and I visualize myself speaking to Him. Lately, I’ve been doing something even a step beyond that because according to the Bible Jesus is at the right hand of God the Father, but He’s also inside of us. So I have been concentrating on God inside of me when I pray in tongues. I’m not praying a million miles away in heaven, I’m praying right into the inside of me. You see the difference. I’m now getting conscious of the presence of God. There was a book written many many years ago by a Brother Lawrence it was called “Practicing the Presence of God.” This guy was a dishwasher in a monastery, the lowest job you could have in a monastery, but he practiced the presence of God when he was washing the dishes, whether people were there, whether people were not there. He was with God 24-7. So now that I’m praying in supernatural languages in tongues, I’m also praying to Jesus inside of me. I’m now getting conscious of the fact that God is inside of me; that His presence is inside of me, and everything I’m saying about me that’s true for you, get it. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t be concentrating on that when you pray in tongues. People would start coming to this Brother Lawrence from all over the world literally because when they came to him they experienced the presence of God. That’s where you’re heading. As you meditate on His word, as you speak in unknown tongues.

Beyond the personal prayer language is the congregational meetings. 1 Corinthians 12:28-30 “And God has appointed these in the church,” and that’s the key thing is in the church “varieties of tongues.” In other words, there’s a special gift of tongues for when there’s a big group present. Verse 30 says of 1 Corinthians 12 “Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?” No. Not everyone has the gift of the public speaking in tongues. They mix that up with the private that’s where they get fouled up. Not everyone has the public gift of interpreting tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:15 tells us how Spirit-filled meeting in the first church operated. I’d like to know that wouldn’t you? Well it’s right in the Bible. “I will pray with the spirit, I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, I will also sing with the understanding.” Then verse 26 “How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue,” there it is, “has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.” Then it goes on to tell, these again are the rules in the church. It says for instance “Let there be two or at the most three speaking in tongues” and don’t just speaking in tongues then get an interpretation then you can have another two or three speak in tongues.” It doesn’t say you can only speak in tongues three times, people have misunderstood that. What I love is when first became a believer… I’ tell you this story tomorrow we’ve run out of time unfortunately.