SID: Another key that Jerame talks about is the key to think big, give me an example in Malawi.

JERAME: Yeah. We were in Malawi, Africa about a year ago, and I was ministering in a large healing campaign. We had about [crosstalk] 70,000 people that night. What’s interesting is when you go to Africa, there’s a lot of witchcraft. There’s witch doctors, there’s sorcery, there’s all this different stuff in the dark supernatural. The Lord spoke to me that night and he said, “Jerame, one of the greatest keys to breaking the powers of darkness and opening the heavens over regions of darkness is the blood of Jesus.”

He said this, he said, “Jerame, the blood speaks a better word.” He said, “If you’re willing to plead the blood of Jesus over this meeting,” he said, “I will destroy every curse of witchcraft. I will destroy sickness off of people’s bodies, and then I’ll release my fire.” I did, I stood up and I even told the witchdoctors, I said, “Listen, I want every witch doctor that can hear the sound of my voice,” there was actually about 30 or 40 of them in the back with their sticks, and I said, “I want you to hear this, you know the power of blood sacrifice, but here’s the deal. The power is in the purity of the sacrifice.” I said, Jesus Christ is the perfect lamb with the purest sacrifice there is, therefore we cancel out your power of the curses you’ve released through the sacrifices that you’ve released of animals and we release miracle power.”

I’m telling you, demons came out of people by the masses and at the end, I said to everybody, I said, “Who here either saw or physically felt a demonic spirit leave them?” I’m telling you over 30,000 people waved their hands. [crosstalk] If that’s not crazy enough, then the Lord said, “Now release the fire.” [crosstalk] He said, everyone that gets saved gets the baptism of the Holy Ghost tonight. We released the baptism of the fire of the Holy Ghost that night. It was amazing, Sid. Over 30,000 people waved in testifying to receiving a supernatural language, right after being delivered of the demonic.

SID: You believe everything in the Bible, but this is off the charts. Tell me about that meeting you went to in a stadium where you were really supernaturally transported.

JERAME: I was involved in a stadium event on God TV, and they told me do not be late to the meeting. “You have to be there at this time to open the meeting up and introduce the speakers.” I went to a restaurant. Well, here’s the problem, Sid, is that this stadium could hold probably 5-6,000 people, but about 10,000 people showed up.

I found myself on the way back to the stadium, behind about two miles of traffic. It was like 6:54 and I told my driver, just drive over the median and take the first exit you can. He drove over the median, took the first exit he can and then all of a sudden we were at the back of the stadium and I thought, “Wow, we must have found a secret entrance,” and I jumped out and threw my jacket on, ran in the door, grabbed the microphone and it was like go time.

LARRY: Donna, I don’t want to interrupt you. I just feel again the Holy Spirit so strongly on what you’re saying, what I want you to do is just look into the camera; talk to folks at home. I feel like a lot of people are saying this a lot of people who are watching us right now you’re saying this: I want to be used by God. I actually want to see this miracle-working power of God breakthrough in my everyday life. It should be normal; why isn’t it normal? Because I believe what the Lord wants to do and He’s doing it right now He wants to MOVE you to compassion. Compassion is something, just like Donna said, it’s an emotion of the Holy Spirit that takes you and puts you into a situation that demands breakthrough!

DONNA: Absolutely.

LARRY: So Donna, could you just release that to some people?

DONNA:  a- you know, here’s what.

LARRY: Mm!

DONNA: I want to say to you. Well oftentimes we say, God, I want to be used in miracles.

LARRY: Yeah.

DONNA: Will You give me the gifts of healing? Sometimes I feel like we’re praying wrong.

LARRY: Mm!

DONNA: because the focus is on us, and drawing attention to ourselves, when there are people all around us who need to know that Jesus loves them.

LARRY: Yes.

DONNA: that Jesus can do something about their need. And so why don’t you begin, today.

LARRY: Mm.

DONNA: to say, God, would You just overwhelm me?

LARRY: Yeah.

DONNA: As I study Jesus, let me see the times where He raised the dead.

LARRY: Yes.

DONNA: because of compassion; where He healed a blind man because of COMPASSION! God, let that be the overflow of my life. When I feel that expression of the Holy Spirit, that NOTHING will hold me back; but I’ll be so moved by another person’s need, that I’ll have [CHUCKLING] no other choice but to lay my hands on the sick 

LARRY: Mm.

DONNA: and see them recover. And Father, I thank You.

LARRY: Yeah; yes.

DONNA: right now, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Lord, that You’re making this truth known.

LARRY: Yes.

DONNA: And Lord, as this one has just lifted up their hands, and I see tears coming down faces even now, Lord, I just pray for a GIFT of compassion.

LARRY: Yes.

DONNA: to fall on each one, in the [CHUCKLING] mighty name of Jesus.

LARRY: Yeah.

DONNA: Amen.

LARRY: Amen.

DONNA: [CHUCKLING] Hallelujah!

LARRY: Thanks; give thanks.

DONNA: Thank You JESUS!

LARRY: I feel like that though. I mean it’s one of those things where people are like, How do I cultivate a lifestyle, UNDER the influence of the anointing? I believe, as you were saying that it says, time after time, Jesus was moved by compassion.

DONNA: Absolutely.

LARRY: and we want to see these greater things. And I believe God has given us an appetite to see the miraculous.

DONNA: Yes.

LARRY: but again, like at the end of the day, with you, your dad, and all these great forerunners who have gone before us, I feel like they were just DRIVEN, more than more than by miracles. KATHRYN KUHLMAN: And from my Heavenly Father.

LARRY: You know just like Kathryn Kuhlman; I think of her.

JOHN: It says, you know, I planted the seed, and Apollos watered, but God caused the growth.

DONNA: Yes.

JOHN: We don’t cause the growth.

DONNA: Uh-huh

JOHN: So, that’s, that is what we saw. And we started to see God just do things that we could never do.

DONNA: Uh-huh.

JOHN: And those people, then, as they grew in the Lord, became our leaders. There are

DONNA: Yes.

JOHN: Many of them are on our staff today.

DONNA: Yes. Wow. Wow. What is your definition, before we go to break, what is your definition of Unshockable Love?

JOHN: Well, Donna, the book, Unshockable Love, comes from down the road realizing there were many Christians who were coming to be a part of this church reaching so many people.

DONNA: Sure.

JOHN: But I started to see that they didn’t, actually, act like Jesus to the people around them.

DONNA: Oh?

JOHN: And I studied the Gospels, all four Gospels, the chronology of what happened, and looked at the difference in Jesus attitudes and actions from that out of the religious Pharisees attitudes and actions.

DONNA: Mm

JOHN: And what I started to realize is Jesus was not shocked at all by the shocking things that we do, our horrendous sins, all of that.

DONNA: Yes. Yes.

JOHN: But He somehow entered right into where people lived and was able to restore and redeem what was broken.

DONNA: Yes. Yes.

JOHN: The religious Pharisees actually pushed people away. And, unfortunately, what I started to see is that the world looks at many Christians today and feels repelled by them

DONNA: Yes.

JOHN: Rather than what happened with Jesus, where those were the people who were spinning around Him, and then became His followers, and were the very people that He changed the world through.

DONNA: Yes. Yes. I’m going to stop right there. And we’re going to talk more about God’s Unshockable Love when we come back. Stay with us.

DONNA: Well, welcome back to Something More. I’m here with John Burke from Gateway Church in Austin, Texas. John, we are talking about God’s Unshockable Love. Why do you suppose that so many people when Jesus was on the earth, why did they run from the religious people but run to Jesus?

JOHN: Yeah. I think, after studying a harmony of the Gospels and looking at Jesus attitudes and actions versus the Pharisees attitudes and actions, there was something very different. And we can find, we can go between those two. And so we have to pay attention to that. It’s not all one or the other. Jesus, I believe, could see what God intended people to become.

DONNA: Mm. Oh. I like that.

JOHN: I like to use an analogy. My wife and I were – lived in Russia, in Saint Petersburg, Russia, and the Hermitage Museum houses Rembrandts famous, The Return of the Prodigal Son painting. It’s my favorite painting in the world.

DONNA: Yes. Yes.

JOHN: And, you know, that painting is, you know, the father, representing God, hugging this prodigal who comes running home, out of Luke 15, you know, where the Pharisees were complaining because some of these sinners were –

DONNA: Of course. One of my very favorites, too.

JOHN: Yeah. They were coming to listen to Jesus. And He was accepting them. Well, that painting today is worth millions and millions of dollars because it was done by the master. It’s an original.

DONNA: Uh-huh.

RYAN: Welcome to “Something More!” And my name is Ryan Bruss and I’m so excited to be here with David Turner! Thank you for being with us! It’s good to meet you and get to know you! And your ministry is known for miracles!

DAVID: Yes!

RYAN: And we love miracles at “It’s Supernatural!” and “Something More!” Tell us a recent miracle.   

DAVID: Well I was at a church actually in the Atlanta area and a woman came up in a wheelchair. She had a foot that was in a boot and she wanted prayer for her other knee that was bad and I prayed for that. She had an instant healing! But I said but what about this?

RYAN: Yeah.

DAVID: It’s like she forgot about it.   

RYAN: Right. Right.

DAVID: And she showed me she had had a screw that had been put to put her ankle and her foot back together and she had had surgery. And she couldn’t walk on it. She hadn’t walked in months and was in that wheelchair. And I prayed for her and then when we were done praying I said do you have the faith? Do you wanna get up and walk? And she said “yeah.” She stood up and started taking steps. Well within 3, 4, 5 minutes she starts literally running up and back!   

RYAN: Mmm.

DAVID: And then when she was done, and we have an amazing video of this, and then all of a sudden she reaches down and we had been able to see the screw right through her foot. And not only did God heal her but it turned back into bone and the screw was gone!

RYAN: Oh, love that!

DAVID: Yeah.

RYAN: Love that! Now you see a lot of miracles. 

DAVID: Yes.

RYAN: Now this is not – now I understand that every meeting that you’re preaching at, you see miracles.

DAVID: I’ve never had a meeting without a miracle!

RYAN: Man, so your faith has just gotta be like way up there! God, you’re gonna move!

DAVID: Yes.

RYAN: You’re gonna move at this meeting.

DAVID: Yes.

RYAN: Now I’m concerned, and those that are listening, you may have been saved for quite a long time. And I think people are still wondering, even good church-going lovers of God, they still wonder is it God’s will for Him to heal me?  

DAVID: Yeah.

RYAN: Is it still His will? It’s been so long since I’ve been healed. Now is it still really His will? Does He really love me enough to heal me? What would you say to those people?

DAVID: Well, and it’s a very simple answer. With everything we have to turn to the Word because we know Jesus is the Word. Revelation 19:13. And the Word is true! So we either believe Genesis to Revelation is the inspired Word of God or it’s not! And I know that it is the Word of God. So instead of asking, “Is it Your will?” You know Mark 1: 40 to 44 the man says, “If it’s Your will, Jesus, please heal me!” He’s the leper. And Jesus said, “I will” and He heals him! But why? He wasn’t looking to the Word which was Jesus. He’s looking, to his circumstance so he was discouraged and disappointed. In that day they had to say, “I’m unclean. I’m unclean.” RYAN:  Right.

SID:  You’re describing what I have only been fantasizing about, but I know it’s coming as real as the description you’re giving me right now, Randy.

RANDY:   I believe we’re seeing the first fruits of these things now, and we’ll see full-blown – you know, kind of like uh the hors d’oeuvres before the full meal [CHUCKLES], so –

SID:  Well speaking about the full meal, uh, Randy takes a lot of interns with him uh throughout the world!  And these young KIDS, –

SID:  they sit down and they take a course on the supernatural from Randy; he prays a prayer of impartation, and they go through to – uh they go to a place like Brazil, and Mozambique, and uh you know, all over the world, and they start doing –

SID:  what he’s doing!  So he’s FINALLY put together a curriculum for everyone! 

SID:  Sid Roth here with Dr. Randy Clark, with “Something More”, and I know you want [CHUCKLING] something more after that first segment!  Uh Randy, uh, y-you uh, were rebuked by the Lord.  You were doing uh – uh you were – you were praying or talking about raising the dead.  Wh-what happened?

RANDY:  Uh Sid, what I was doing is I had a –

RANDY:  sermon, and it’s called “The Biblical Basis of Healing”, during which, while I’m teaching this –

RANDY:  the message, for people who feel the anointing, stand up, and I said, “I bless you in Jesus’ name”, and they sat back down.  I’d – the Lord just told me He’d heal people from the Word!  So I was reviewing the Scriptures, and in – in Matthew 10 it – it says, you know, uh, that we’re to heal the sick, and cleanse the lepers, and it – and it also – and raise the dead!  And I – I was just struggling with that because this is like, you know, 19 years ago.  And uh, it was after Toronto, but I was still struggling with it, because that first year after Toronto, we didn’t see as many healings as uh beginning the second year.  And so the Lord spoke to me in my heart; it was just – not – not like an audible voice, but in – I could – knew it was Him.  Uh, there’s been a handful of these times; it was just so strong, I knew it was the Lord.  Uh very – and He said uh, “You don’t like that verse, do you?”  I said “No, Lord”, because I’d have a tendency to lower my voice and said the “raise the dead” part, –

SID:  [CHUCKLES]

RANDY:  and it was embar- – I said, “Lord, this is embarrassing to the church.”

SID:  L-look, most people listening to us right now, if someone was deaf, or if someone was blind, uh, they would hope someone else laid hands on them; they don’t want to, so I understand [CHUCKLES] what you’re saying.

RANDY:  Yeah I – I said, “Lord this is embar- – we’re trying to get the sick healed, and you’re telling us to raise the dead!  Do you realize what an embarrassment that is to the church that you’ve got it – couldn’t you have left this – this out?”  And STRONG as day, uh, the – the – the Lord spoke to me and He said – and it’s kind of interesting, because Pentecostals and charismatics, by other parts of the church, are considered to be experience-based, rather than word-based.

SID:  Um hm.

JUDY: So what we have to do is tell our minds what to believe.

LARRY: Mm.

JUDY: So you’re going along, and you commit a sin; and you’re always remembering this. And yes, you ask for forgiveness, but “How stupid it was to do that; that’s probably the fifth time you’ve done it.” Well what I have people do at the beginning is forgive themselves!

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: Because they’re believing a lie, that that sin is there; –

LARRY: Mm.

JUDY: that they were stupid to do it. Well Jesus came to forgive us of all sins. He doesn’t just, “Oh, I forgive you”; He takes it away.

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: It’s “As far as the east is from the west…”, It is no more; why are you thinking on that?

LARRY: Hm.

JUDY: You need to renew your mind. You need to stop believing lies. I thought I was stupid; I thought all sort of lies about myself; “God wouldn’t want me. I have no talents; I have no gifts”; well that’s a lie, too!

LARRY: Hm.

JUDY: I do have talents and gifts! He gave them to me! To say that we don’t belong with Him is a lie that we’re believing. I belong to Him lock, stock and barrel because of what Jesus did –

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: in my life. He forgave me –

LARRY:  hm.

JUDY: of everything. I can boldly come before the throne, because I have no sin on me, –

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: because Jesus paid for that!

LARRY: Yep; yeah.

JUDY: Now do I do things wrong? Oh yes; I do.

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: But you wee, with forgiveness it’s gone.

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: So I think that’s very important, that people stop believing lies about themselves. I know that Bill Johnson says that, “The only power that Satan has if we believe his lie”; otherwise, he doesn’t have the power. I’m sitting here , and I’m in this studio, and I’m going to be on television, so you know I’m thinking about, –

LARRY: [chuckling] Yeah.

JUDY: “What do I look like?”

LARRY: [chuckling] Yeah!

JUDY: “What am I going to say?”, and “What if I say something bad?”, and “Hey, can I stop?”, and “Can I, you know, are you going to edit it and everything?”, –

LARRY: Sure.

JUDY: and I had to stop myself and go, “Wait a minute. God, You brought me here.”

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: “I know you give me things to say. And who cares what I look like; I don’t.” If you do, I’m sorry, –

LARRY: And it’s alright.

JUDY: but I’m not going to change.

LARRY: You look good now.

JUDY: [laughs]

LARRY: [laughs] Yeah; yeah.

JUDY: So I had refused to believe the lie!

LARRY: Yeah.

JUDY: If the Lord says, “Go up and pray for that person,” I go, “Oh; I don’t pray good; I don’t pray good, flowery prayers, and mine are just to-the-point, and -” and I think, “No; that’s a lie -“

LARRY: Yes.

JUDY: “From the enemy!” He is “the father of lies”.

LARRY: Yes; yeah; yeah.

JUDY: That’s all he can do to us is tell us lies!

LARRY: Well that’s funny; I heard a friend of mine once say, “How do you know that the devil is lying?”, and then the question is, “Well how do you know?”; “If his lips are moving.”

JUDY: [laughs] There you go!

LARRY: Because isn’t that true? That’s all he does, and that’s how you recognize –

JUDY: Yeah!

DONNA: Do you feel like there’s a confirmation there? How do you feel about that?

ANA: God is so good that every time He will confirm it. There are times I’ve been in Heaven where I’ve seen things and I’m like, “Wow okay, that was different”. Just the other day, I was in Heaven and I saw this giant book. It was in the library room in Heaven. I saw this giant book in front of me and I was like this big and the book was this big, you know? And God was speaking to me about what’s in that book, and the pages were turning, and I’m thinking, “Okay,” and then suddenly I’m back in my little living room, with my coffee cup and I’m like, “Wow, that was really crazy; that was amazing,” but I knew it was Heaven. I write it all down and then God’s like—and I heard His voice say, “Watch this Ana, I’ll confirm it.” And on that day there were two different prophetic voices that wrote about the books of Heaven and one guy described it exactly how I described it: As he was this small, the book was this big. You know? And then another friend of mine who’s a prophetic voice, she as well said, “Oh, I’ve been experiencing the books of Heaven”. You know? And I’m like, “Wow!” God is good, that He confirms His Spirit through many different prophetic voices.

DONNA: Yes, yes.

ANA: He’ll confirm it and also in His Word. You know, he’ll always confirm what I’m experiencing in Heaven through His Word. I always base everything on the Word.

DONNA: Yes! [music] That’s great. Well, we’re going to take a little break. I want you to stay right there and I want you to stay right there because we’re going to be back, right here, on Something More in just a moment.

DONNA: Welcome back to Something More. I’m here with Ana Werner, and she stayed, and we’re glad that you stayed. So we’re going to talk a little bit more about Heaven. Ana, let me ask you this. What do you mean when you say, “Oh yesterday I visited Heaven”? You know, what does it mean to visit Heaven?

ANA: Yeah, people ask me this question all the time because they’re like, “What are you talking about?”

DONNA: [laughs] Yeah, I’m sure! All of our viewers are saying, “What does she mean? What does she mean?”

ANA: Yeah! So, I can just explain from what I’ve experienced. I’ll be sitting in my living room or in a different place, like maybe in a church or something like that, and suddenly, I find myself walking into a different place and I see Jesus, you know, or I see angels, or I see—you know, I’m right there up in the throne room. So, it’s like a vision, like you go right into it; you’re in a different place, but my physical body is in the same location. Like I don’t move or anything like that. As soon as the Heaven encounter is done, I find myself back sitting where I was before and I’m like, “Oh”. And I always feel sad because I just want to stay in Heaven because Heaven is amazing.

DONNA: Right, right.

HAKEEM: What’s robbing our, us from moving into the purpose of God and moving into our full potential and to maximize that full potential is ignorance. Sickness, yes it exists. That’s why we need healing agents like you. Poverty exists, yes. But we need those that can speak prosperity. That can speak those things that be not as though they are. And we have the creative ability in the same spirit that resides on the inside of us. And we can create and change our world. It’s biblically it’s supported. Then why are we shutting our mouths? Why are we so silent about things? I believe in this hour God is going to raise up a holy discontentment. He’s going to raise up a holy dissatisfaction where now you’re not going to sit back and just wait for God to do it. God says you know what? I’m waiting on you!

AUDIENCE: Mm.

HAKEEM: We’re praying and asking God to make things happen. And yes He will! He’s sovereign. But we have to partner with heaven and begin to hear from heaven and once we hear from heaven we can release it through our mouths!

AUDIENCE: Hallelujah!

HAKEEM: We can release heavenly decrees if we are seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus that means that we can be seated right here, those who are watching in your living room, those who are watching you can be seated in this dimension and can ascend to the heavenly places because we are seated there with Christ! Once we know and have that revelation by faith that we are seated, that means that we have the best of two worlds! We can be in this dimension and ascend and sit on papa’s lap and He can show us the blueprint of our lives. He can show us what is ahead. That’s where God is going to begin I believe is going to open up our prophetic senses, allow us to see into the heavenly realm. We’re going to begin not only to see. Even Jesus said I say what I hear the Father saying. He said I do what I see Him doing. This is a principle not for those in the first century. This is a New Testament truth and revelation that you as believers can see in the heavenly realm and see what the Father is doing. In other words there is a blueprint, there is a template for your life that God wants you to get a glimpse of. No longer our prophecies or no longer our dreams will be dreams, no longer they will be a type and a shadow but we will live in the reality of it! We will become our prophecy. We will manifest. Jesus was the, He came in the volume of the book that was written of Him. Right?

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

SID: Okay, Warren, you said that as the Holy Spirit taught you the keys… Tell us some of the important keys for revelation of this particular passage.

WARREN: Well, number one, we always must remember that this is the only prayer in the entire Bible that God himself wrote. Number two, that the Hebrew has a far deeper meaning. And when the Hebrew is pronounced over, that’s really when I sense the impartation that comes upon people because the fullness of meaning is revealed in the Hebrew. And the last point I would like to stress here… There’s many more. Is the fact that a high priest, the Jewish high priest must pronounce it over you. We have a High Priest, his name is Yeshua, Jesus. He’s there 24 hours a day, seven days a week in the glory. And the fact of the matter is—

SID: You mean all those blessings occurred with a once-a-year thing by a human high priest? How much more by having the Messiah of Israel, proclaim that over you? When we come back, would you pray that prayer with the understanding from the ancient Hebrew script, as to what it really means? And then I want it sung over the people. There’s something about singing it and then I want it sung over you in Hebrew, when we come back.

SID: I commission Warren Marcus, right now, to pray with understanding, this ancient, oldest fragment known to man from the holy scriptures, the only prayer prayed by God, the father himself, that resulted in those spectacular blessings over you, and something supernatural is ready to happen.

WARREN: It says in our English Bibles, the Lord bless you, but in the ancient paleo Hebrew, here’s what it really implies. May your heavenly father, he who exists, kneel in front of you. The word Barak means to kneel. He kneels in front of you making himself available, with his arms extended like a father kneeling before his child, in order to minister and bestow comfort and gifts and promises. The word, and keep you, may your heavenly father, he, who exists, guard you with a hedge of thorny protection. This is his arms going around you in a divine embrace that will prevent Satan and all your enemies from harming your body, soul, mind, and spirit. What do you need? Deliverance? What do you need? Healing? It comes because you’re in his presence. The Lord make his face to shine upon you. Your heavenly father, may he illuminate the wholeness of his being towards you, continually bringing you to order so that you will fulfill your God-given destiny and purpose. And in our English Bible, it says, and be gracious to you.

WARREN: I love this because this is the father looking into your eyes. His smile of pleasure. This is where he’s saying, I love you, my daughter, I love you, my son. I am well pleased in you. This is my favorite one. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you. The word in Hebrew is Nasa. It means to lift up and carry you. So this is the heavenly father. He’s lifting you up like a child, like a little son or daughter, and he’s carrying you in his arms, supporting you with his divine embrace and his entire being. But now, this is what you get out of that relationship, this is what he leaves you with, and give you peace. What it means, Shalom in the Hebrew is much more than the absence of war. Okay? It’s, may God, your heavenly father, set in place all you need to be whole and complete, so you can walk in victory moment by moment by the power of the Holy Spirit.

SID: It’s two weeks later, your sister takes you to church. What happened?

ROB: Oh my goodness. My sister Ernestine, she says these words. Precious, will you do me a favor? But then she asked me the unthinkable. She said, Rob, will you go to church with me? When she said that? I was like, I already said yes. And in my mind I was a CEO, Christmas, Easter, Only. I didn’t need to go to church very often, because I was a good guy. I didn’t know I needed salvation. But in that very moment, when she invited me to church, I agreed. I show up Sunday morning. She walks me in. We sit down in these nice cushy little seats. And she says, these words. She says, precious, I’ll be right back. She put me in a seat, goes to the back and begins to pray that God would encounter me. That God would touch me. That God would transform me. I started to feel a shake in my body. I felt an overwhelming presence. And I got a little afraid. And I think I said to myself, something like this, I need to get the H E L L out of here.

ROB: I didn’t realize God was getting rid of it in me. And so, as I went to sit up, the presence of God overwhelmed me and a seatbelt came on me, and I bent over and immediately I began to weep. I began to cry uncontrollably. I cried out and I said, these words. Lord, if you’re real, save me. Right there, no one laid hands, no one ministered salvation to me, God himself came and delivered me. From that day forward, Sid, no one had to invite me to church. I just got up every Wednesday, every Sunday, with a thought, I’m going to the house of God. And my life was radically—

SID: What happened to that wonderful photography career?

ROB: Oh my God. That’s all I can say is, when I least expected it, I got invited to a service in Southern California. I lived in Northern California and I knew in my knower, something inside of me was saying, you need to get to the service. And there’s a pastor that’s speaking a message called, lay down your Isaac. And he began to announce to the church, today, we’re all going to sacrifice greatly. We’re going to lay down our Isaac. And he said, we’re going to do something completely different in today’s service. And he says, we’re going to take the gifts that you laid down, and we’re going to ask Bible trivia questions, and we’re going to give it to the one who’s able to answer the question. And we’re going to believe that this was God’s doing. And I was excited. I had a few dollars in my pocket and I was like, yes, Lord, I’ll give it all.

ROB: And the Lord spoke to me and he says, Rob, do you love me? And I said, Lord, with all my heart, what do you want? I’m thinking 25, $50. At that time, I’m young. I didn’t have very much money. And he said, I want your camera. And he said, will you give me your camera? And in that moment, the basket is going by. And I could feel the heart, that tug. I don’t know if you’ve ever had that tug, that inner fight with the Holy Spirit. I had that inner fight going on. And I just said, yes, Lord, I love you. And I took my pen and I began to write on the offering envelope and I threw it in. And then the Lord spoke to me a second time, right then and there, on the spot as the offering plate is going away. He says, do you love me? I said, Lord, I just gave you my prized possession. He says, do you love me? I said, all within me, Lord, everything in my heart. He says, today, will you sacrifice and give all your camera equipment away? And without hesitation, I said, yes.